Search for content in message boards

Claiming A Royal Title

Re: Claiming A Royal Title

Hunter Johnstton (View posts)
Posted: 3 Jul 2005 2:18AM GMT
Classification: Query
Having read the additonal posts, I now have to wonder,
Exactly what is the tiile that you would try to claim?

Just because one descends from a King does not entitle one to a peerage. Currently even Queen Elizabeth II has grandchildren that have no titles (children of Princess Anne). Also consider that the younger sons, and daughters of a peer might be designated "the Honorable" or "Lady", etc, but their children have no such honors.

Both my parents (who are cousins to each more ways than one) have lineages that trace back to King David I of Scotland and through his wife to Alfred the Great and Charlemagne, but.... I would not assume that I was in line to claim any current titles.

Re: Claiming A Royal Title

Roberta Heim (View posts)
Posted: 4 Jul 2005 6:34PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Heim, VonHeimen, Harris, Chilton, DeBeaufort, etc.
After learning we are Edward III great-great-" grandchildren, and already knowing VonHeimen ancestors voluntarily abandoned titles during the Reformation, I am trying to learn if there are any family rights in name or property that remain unclaimed and also trying to learn the rules regarding hereditary titles. It seems strange that the direct descendants of Kings from anywhere would have no claim or would not automatically inherit any title, though I know after a while (18+ generations) there are so many descendants - 120,000 Prince and Princesses of England (the estimated number of King Edward III descendants) - might overburden the system, or make it pointless? I would welcome any recommended reading resources.

Re: Claiming A Royal Title

Yvonne (View posts)
Posted: 5 Jul 2005 4:19AM GMT
Classification: Query
-- Previous Message --
>If a family has a reason or grounds to claim an English title, what are some sources of information that might tell about proceedures, etiqutte, and laws involved? And, at what point does a hereditary title "die" - or does it? Does anyone know the current ruling monarch's position on "old crown" titles? I hear the French tend to honor all titles, past or present, but they are the most permissive.

Let's see if I can give some basic answers to some of the complicated questions you ask in your post.

If you believe you are eligible to be considered for an English title (and I don't mean belief through anecdotal evidence, but belief through solid, proven genealogical documentation), you have limited options.

You don't explain what kind of English title you might want to claim, but if it's a peerage title (duke, marquess, earl, viscount, baron), find yourself a copy of the following books, and familiarize yourself with the various holders (past and present) of these peerage titles:

- *Complete Peerage* (full citation further below)
- *Burke's Peerage & Baronetage* (available in hardcover, or online edition)
- *Debrett's Peerage & Baronetage*

Afterwards, if you still feel you have a case, then you might want to get in touch with the House of Lords Information Office, or the Committee for Privileges. But I caution you that the people who maintain these offices are serious folk, and most likely will only entertain well-prepared and well-researched requests.

If by "English title" you mean a title of (British) royalty (that's what you have more or less in the subject line), then you are out of luck. To the best of my knowledge, there are no unclaimed royal titles. For example, the title of sovereign or monarch is currently held by HM Queen Elizabeth II. If it's a princely title such as HRH Prince/Princess of Great Britain, then all the eligible people currently hold their titles. (At any rate, this style and title is limited to a few specific individuals, as per King George V's Letters Patent of 30 October 1917 and subsequent modifications).

If by "English title" you mean being able to claim a place in the succession to the Crown (I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I'm fairly certain I'm correct), then you are, again, out of luck. Why? It isn't because of a personal reason, but because I do not believe you meet the criteria. And what is that criteria? Very simply, are you a legitimate descendant of Electress Sophia? Why would you need to be? Well, that's because certain statutes (such as the Act of Settlement, 1701) limit the right of succession to the British Throne to Sophia, Electress of Hanover "and the heirs of her body, being Protestants". If you are not a descendant of Electress Sophia, then you are, to put it bluntly, not eligible to succeed, no ifs, ands, or buts. In case you want to verify who these descendants are, an American genealogist and published author has compiled "A list of all of the descendants of Electress Sophia [...] arranged in succession order, complete as of Jan. 1, 2001" at http://members.aol.com/eurostamm/succession_2001.html

You ask "at what point does a hereditary title "die" - or does it?". Hereditary peerage titles do "die", but the correct term is 'extinct'. For example, when no legitimate heir to a hereditary peerage title can be found, the peerage is "dormant", and remains so until proof can be found that there are no legitimate heirs, and then the peerage is "extinct" and "reverts to the Crown". If the peer is attainted, the peerage is "extinguished by attainder". If the peer succeeds to the throne (such as HRH the Duke of York who succeeded as HM King George VI in 1936), then the peerage "merges with the Crown".

As for "old crown" titles, and the French being permissive about titles (although I suspect you are misinformed on this point), I don't understand what you mean.

Here are some resources that will help you understand this business of titles:

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) and their answers and other useful information about the British Royal Family and British nobility at:
http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/britfaq.html#toc

*The Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain, and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant.* London: The St. Catherine Press, 1910-1959 [reprint ed. Gloucester: Summon, 1982]

Montague-Smith, Patrick (ed.). Debrett's Correct Form. London: Headline, 1992

Pine, L.G. *Guide to Titles & Forms of Address*

Finally, I hope that this brief and somewhat general reply has helped you in some way, and has shown that "claiming a royal title" is a *very* complicated subject to try understand and is not for the faint-hearted.

Re: Claiming A Royal Title

Hunter Johnston (View posts)
Posted: 6 Jul 2005 6:35PM GMT
Classification: Query
Just curious, it appears you descend from Edward III thru John of Guant; from which of his children does your line descend?
John had 3 wives and many offspring (not counting probably more illegimate ones that history does not record). Some were born illigitimate, but were ligimized by Parliament later.
You mention the VonHeimen family and the Reformation, which sounds like your line was in Germany in the 16th century. John had children that married into the Spanish and Portuguese royal families, and no doubt from there spread across Europe.

Re: Claiming A Royal Title

Posted: 22 Jul 2009 1:11PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Croy - Gray - Cotanay
Im reserching wether This applys today If so then Every first born male in my family line is an Imperial Prince.
I have been able to trace my line all the way back to A.D. 406 and have extinseve royalty in my line and I wish to clam part of my famly heritage namely title(s) that fall to me.

The House of Croÿ is an international family of European mediatized nobility which held a seat in the Imperial Diet from 1486, and was elevated to the rank of Imperial Princes in 1594. In 1913 the family had branches in Belgium, France, Prussia and Hungary.

Re: Claiming A Royal Title/Heim & Cochrane

Posted: 2 Oct 2009 3:54PM GMT
Classification: Immigration
Hi Roberta. I don't know if you are still viewing this thread, But I am Jesse Heim III, descendent of Pvt. Peter Heim, CSA, Born 1832, Austria who entered the USA from a sailing ship (hauling cattle) and settled in Fair Play, Texas. He Married Saphronia Elnora Page, who died 1887,TX.
While some in this thread are splitting hairs, 700,000 people in the US are descended from royalty. I can make my claim, (if I were a landowner in Scotland) on my Mothers side of the family as, Laird Jesse (Cochrane) Heim III, 16th Great Grand Nephew of Lord William Cochrane, 1st Earl of Dundonald, Baron of Paisley and Ochiltree, Marquess of Maranhao, (Brazil). All descendants of Waldevus de Cochrane 1262. But I'll stay with US descendents Capt. Nathaniel Cochrane 1st Battalion, 11th Regiment Virginia Militia of the Continental Army, 27, Feb. 1757 and Peter Heim.

Re: Claiming A Royal Title

Posted: 8 Dec 2012 3:49AM GMT
Classification: Query
"Wikipedia" :)

Re: Claiming A Royal Title

Posted: 24 Nov 2013 11:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Roberta. I recently discovered that I am the 22-nd great-granddaughter of Kind Edward "Longshanks," King Henry III's eldest son. So, through many years and generations, it appears we are related. I decided to research if I needed to claim anything or list in a registry as a descendant, who lives in America, and came across your question. I found this very ironic. This is a reply 8 years after you asked the question, but I felt I should post a reply regardless of time, to see if you have discovered anything more in this time. I don't know if I am allowed to post my email, but I am very intrigued by my family history, and would love to know more. My email is avaheines88@gmail.com, and I look forward to hearing from you.
per page

Find a board about a specific topic