Probate Registers - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

"Administration London to the solicitor of the Treasury" - No will or no executor?

wilsonandall — 2013-04-17 10:39:00Z

I believe my great great grandmother was Frances Harriett Yates. Her entry on the Probate Calendar reads

"Frances Harriett Yates of 32 Manor Road Chelsea Middlsex spinster died 24 January 1892 Administration London 5 December to the solicitor of the Treasury Effects £1742 5s 5d”.

I presume this means she left no will. Or does it mean she named no executor?

Whichever, I am hoping that after her death someone (or some people) tried to prove they were an heir. She was a spinster so it APPEARED she had no living relatives. However, I have good reason to believe she may have been the mother of an illegitimate son (from whom she was estranged), my great grandfather. He had several children, grandchildren etc.

The point is I am hoping to prove that the mother Frances Harriett Yates and the illegitimate child were related.
Is there a way I can find out if anyone ever claimed her estate and if so who they were?

What information does a will provide?

nicolanorton — 2013-04-10 18:22:18Z

Hi, I have found the probate register for my relative on ancestry.co.uk and they have left a will. What further information will the probate record give me, aside from the paragraph listing date of death and occupation and exucutor? Is it worth sending off for? This is for 1870.
Thanks

Looking for a will from 1737

linda25061965 — 2013-04-04 21:17:55Z

I was given a lot of information re my ancestors but unfortunately am not in contact with the original researcher,

attached to an Edward ap Oliver born 1655 is the following note

'a will for Edward Oliver tailor of Selattyn proved on 10/11/1737 probably refers to the above. Describes a son Thomas Oliver and insinuates that this Thomas lives away from Selattyn (also implies is probably unmarried) Mentions a daughter Sarah Tomkins (twice married) now wife of Peter Tomkins, several grandchildren and importantly leaves a small bequest to his brother Richard and his son Richard - the Richard shown at the end?? He also mentions something about his 2nd marraige. Unfortunately there are no baptisms at Selattyn for Thomas and Sarah and probably this suggests the family lived away, also they do not appear on the Bishops census for 1681 and 1686. However maybe the Elin baptised in 1696 daughter of Edward and Margaret is Edwards daughter from his 2nd marraige, named after his mother, and indicates a return to Selattyn'

Is there a way of obtaining the above mentioned will?

whilst searching for it I have found

1724 Aug. 11. Peter Tomkins, of Oswestry, & Sarah Charm, of this p. ... mar.

1737 Oct. 21. Old Edward Charm, alias Oliver ... bur.

so if the will really does relate to my Edward ap Oliver the above finds could also link in

thank you
Linda

Looking for a will from 1737

linda25061965 — 2013-04-04 21:16:48Z

I was given a lot of information re my ancestors but unfortunately am not in contact with the original researcher,
attached to an Edward ap Oliver born 1655 is the following note
'a will for Edward Oliver tailor of Selattyn proved on 10/11/1737 probably refers to the above. Describes a son Thomas Oliver and insinuates that this Thomas lives away from Selattyn (also implies is probably unmarried) Mentions a daughter Sarah Tomkins (twice married) now wife of Peter Tomkins, several grandchildren and importantly leaves a small bequest to his brother Richard and his son Richard - the Richard shown at the end?? He also mentions something about his 2nd marraige. Unfortunately there are no baptisms at Selattyn for Thomas and Sarah and probably this suggests the family lived away, also they do not appear on the Bishops census for 1681 and 1686. However maybe the Elin baptised in 1696 daughter of Edward and Margaret is Edwards daughter from his 2nd marraige, named after his mother, and indicates a return to Selattyn'

Is there a way of obtaining the above mentioned will?

whilst searching for it I have found

1724 Aug. 11. Peter Tomkins, of Oswestry, & Sarah Charm, of this p. ... mar.

1737 Oct. 21. Old Edward Charm, alias Oliver ... bur.

so if the will really does relate to my Edward ap Oliver the above finds could also link in

thank you
Linda

Re: Stamford Probate Records

stevenshodge — 2013-01-03 22:28:11Z

Thomas Stevens was my immigrant ancestor.

Re: Stamford Probate Records

bstevens_ca — 2013-01-03 18:50:51Z

I have a copy of his will, it's very hard to read and is handwritten.

How are you connected to Thomas?

Barb Stevens

Stamford Probate Records

stevenshodge — 2012-11-06 18:00:45Z

I am looking for the inventory that was probated in Stamford (New Haven Colony) 1658 for Thomas Stevens/Stephens. Hoping that someone can tell me where the records are kept and, if possible, contact information.

Re: How to get copy of a will

white_roses — 2012-07-22 12:29:43Z

Have you tried calling the county clerk? It's often easiest to start as close as you can to the original record. If they don't have it or can't provide a copy,
and can't give any helpful advice, do a google search to find the state archives, and check their website for will holdings.

How to get copy of a will

Taylormadename — 2012-07-22 01:17:11Z

I have been doing my family tree for years, but for the most part only through ancestry.com. I have started to hit brick walls and need to start branching out and I don't know much about how to research outside of Ancestry.com.

I found a posting of Blount County, TN wills index and I see that one of my relatives who I have been trying to find information on is listed on there. They have a will date, probate date and some book and page numbers.

How do I use this to try and find a copy of a will? Do I need to be in the TN area to do so?

Any help in the right direction would be very much appreciated.

Re: 13 Years between death & probate-why?

catmrs1959 — 2012-06-24 01:12:49Z

Thanks for such a prompt reply. I thought it might be something like that.

Meanwhile I've just found probate for my grandfather the previous year, 1965 to the same 2 people, my late uncle and the family solicitor.
My Great grandfathers effects were £598, my grandfathers £2210, not a great deal but obviously worth more then than today.

My aunt & uncle dealt with the estates of several close members of our small family over the years. As he was an Insurance manager I guess he was familiar with finances.

Many thanks
Bernadette

Re: 13 Years between death & probate-why?

kh440 — 2012-06-24 00:28:42Z

The Will may have been contested and it took that long for it to become finalized. There may have been more than one Last Will and in the end a judge has to decide which one was valid.

There are legal wranglings by family members and their attorneys (solicitors) to make it a long drawn-out process (and in the meantime, family members die so it all goes to one person).

It may have taken that long to make sure all assets were found and liquidated into the Estate if the person didn't have all of his affairs in order at the time of death. (The surviving members of the family have to hunt down and locate those assets).

There might have been economic hurdles to overcome as there are many fees to pay in order to enter a Last Will into probate; court costs, et al. Would the Estate have enough money to cover those costs or did fees have to be paid upfront by the surviving family members?

Those are just a few of the possible reasons ...

Re: 13 Years between death & probate-why?

catmrs1959 — 2012-06-23 22:55:27Z

Just to rectify my own mistake...13 years, not 9

9 Years between death & probate-why?

catmrs1959 — 2012-06-23 22:49:36Z

I've just found the probate records for my great grand father who died in April 1953 yet probate was November 1966. Why would it have taken so long? Probate was to his eldest grandaughters husband and a family solicitor. He had 3 children, my grandfather who died in 1963, another son who lived in Australia and also might have died by 1966 and a daughter who I know little about.

Any clues please

Re: Foreigners in England & Wales, National Probate Calendar??

Liz_Hayward — 2011-05-20 05:21:07Z

Hi,

Be brave - ordering a copy of the will is really easy - here is a link to the website:

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1226.htm

There is an application form which you send off - when I applied mine arrived on exactly the 21st day after I applied - so be patient too! (I am in the UK and it only cost £5. - but it gives details for applying from overseas.)

Good luck!

Liz

Re: Foreigners in England & Wales, National Probate Calendar??

dorie548 — 2011-05-20 01:45:52Z

Hi-

Thank you so much for responding. I really appreciate it! I know absolutely nothing about probate or wills in general, and even less about them in the UK (I'm in the US).

I'm 99.99% sure I have the right individuals (the dates of death are consistent with all the information I have). According to my mother (who is from France and is more familiar with all the family lore), they never lived in England. However, I don't know if they owned property. They did own an insurance company - perhaps something about that is a factor.

I suppose I should try and order a copy for each individual. I've never ordered documents from another country before, so I have been dragging my feet. But, I have to bite the bullet sometime! :-)

Thanks again!

Re: Why might somebody whose will was proved be missing from the Probate Registers?

judybuckley150443 — 2011-05-16 21:13:02Z

Thank you! About 15 years ago I ordered a will in person, but I've never done it by post. The fee is only £5 I see, which is good value.

Information is here:-

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/1226.htm#011

Re: Why might somebody whose will was proved be missing from the Probate Registers?

carobradford — 2011-05-16 20:39:05Z

If you have a date of death (just a year will do) and are prepared to take a risk that there was no will or administration, you can still apply by post to the Probate Registry for a copy, as their fee includes a four year search.

Re: Why might somebody whose will was proved be missing from the Probate Registers?

judybuckley150443 — 2011-05-15 09:26:10Z

Visiting the local archives seems to be the only way to access probate registers which Ancestry have not managed to include so far.

My Ancestors whose wills are not included in 1901 (Joseph Thomas and Charles Hay-Smith) both lived in London, but the former died in Cornwall and I think his executor got probate in Plymouth.

I hope Ancestry will be able to add more books soon!

Re: sales,probate and wills

judybuckley150443 — 2011-05-15 09:17:19Z

The National Probate Register here is for the UK where there was no slavery. But perhaps a master might move to England or Wales bringing slave with them and then leave them a bequest.

Your question needs an expert, but my guess (which you probably already know, my apologies if you do) is that to find a slave named WITHIN a will you would need to know or guess the name of the master making the will? Presumably slave owners did leave bequests to their slaves ... including the gift of freedom?

Re: Foreigners in England & Wales, National Probate Calendar??

judybuckley150443 — 2011-05-15 09:09:59Z

Hi,

Did they ever live in England or own property in England? And are you sure they are the right people?

Having sorted that out (and apologies if you already have!) I think you need an expert to help you.

sales,probate and wills

dawsontroy52 — 2011-05-14 20:45:51Z

Where would I find or check sales, probates, wills where names of slave might be found. With or without the name of Willis.

Foreigners in England & Wales, National Probate Calendar??

dorie548 — 2011-04-02 07:11:52Z

Hi-

I'm hoping someone can shed some light on this for me as I'm a bit perplexed. I have found two of my ancestors in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941 (one died in 1916, his father in 1906).

While it is great to find ancestors in any registry, I'm a bit perplexed at finding them in this register as both were Alsatian and lived in Strasbourg; i.e. they were not from England, Wales, or anywhere in the UK. Is there a reason that they would have had their wills in England?

Anyone have insight as to why this would happen?

Thanks!

swedish probate records

hansson45 — 2011-03-31 07:14:52Z

Does anyone know how to order or view online a probate record from sweden?

How long does it take to get a will?

baggy44 — 2011-01-04 07:31:18Z

I wrote to York Probate Sub-Registry on 20 September enclosing a cheque for £5 and asking for a copy of the will of Frederick Miller, died 27 October 1885, administration granted 22 March 1886. The cheque was cashed almost immediately, but more than 3 months later there is no sign of the will. Can someone with experience in asking for wills tell me whether this is normal, or whether my application has simply been lost?

Yesterday I filled out six Application For A Probate Search forms, but I'm reluctant to send it off with a cheque for £30 if all that's going to happen is that the £30 is taken and then silence.

Re: re: Re: Looking for wills - LETTING

BelleRinger — 2010-11-05 17:51:27Z

You're welcome Karen. :-)

Christine

re: Re: Looking for wills - LETTING

Glory1505 — 2010-11-05 17:37:59Z

Hi Christine, thats great, thank you, Karen.

Re: Looking for wills - LETTING

BelleRinger — 2010-11-05 11:17:58Z

Hi,

There are 4 entries for the surname Letting in the Probate Calendar Index between the years 1861 and 1941:

1924
LETTING Thomas Edward of Windmill-cottage Old Bradwell Buckinghamshire died 24 Jun 1924 at the Northampton General Hospital Northampton Administration London 24 July to Amy Rhoda Letting widow. Effects £169 16s. 5d.

1930
LETTING Lucy of Oliver-street Ampthill Bedfordshire (wife of John Letting) died 7 November 1929 Probate London 17 January to the said John Letting retired fish fryer. Effects £845 3s. 8d.

1936
Doris Kathleen of 1 High-street Westoning Bedfordshire (wife of Horace Letting) died 12 April 1936 Administration London 18 July to the said Horace Letting kiln burner. Effects £181 15s. 9d.

1938
LETTING Amy Rhoda of Mill cottage New Bradwell Buckinghamshire (wife of Walter George Letting) died 16 December 1937 Administration Birmingham 2 March to the said Walter George Letting Labourer in railway works. Effect £213 7s. 10d.

There is more information on how you can find index entries outside those years, and how to order Wills or Grants of Administration at the following webpage:

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/Probate.html

Christine

Looking for wills - LETTING

Glory1505 — 2010-11-05 08:10:43Z

Looking to find the wills of Thomas Letting di 1924 and Lucy Letting di 1929 and any other LETTINGS from Bedfordshire really. Can anyone tell me how I go about it please. I see there is something on Ancestry but I don't have the full subscription. Thanks to anyone who can help with this.

Re: Why might somebody whose will was proved be missing from the Probate Registers?

BelleRinger — 2010-10-23 20:21:42Z

Judy, you're welcome!

My great grandfather died in 1901 and when I searched for & didn't find an entry of probate I just thought maybe he didn't leave anything, but perhaps he did.

Fortunately I can go to the Nottinghamshire Archives reasonably easily which has a complete run of probate calendar books up to 1968, and it has proved very useful.

Christine

Re: Why might somebody whose will was proved be missing from the Probate Registers?

judybuckley150443 — 2010-10-23 20:06:01Z

Hello Christine,

Thank you for the answer!

Looking again at my tree I see I HAD noted the gaps when I failed to find a probate entry record for my great grandfather who died August 1900, but then FORGOT all about them when searching my Cornish Civil Engineer (great-uncle's grandfather) who died August 1903!

I must be just the right age (actually 67) to have several ancestors who died in the period where there are gaps in the registers!

All is clear now, and maybe this new topic will now be redundant? But you never know. Someone may have a different query about these very useful registers!

Re: Why might somebody whose will was proved be missing from the Probate Registers?

BelleRinger — 2010-10-23 09:08:30Z

Hi Judy,

I was as flummoxed by this as you were until I went to the search page for the Probate Indexes, scrolled down, and saw this:

Missing volumes:
Our collection covers 80 years from 1861 to 1941. We currently do not have the books for the years 1858-1860 and there are some gaps for the years 1863, 1868, 1873, 1876, 1877, 1883, 1888, 1899-1903 and 1910-1911. However, we hope to add records for these years as soon as possible.

The years 1899-1902 are actually completely missing in the "browse this collection" drop down menu, top-right of the search page.

Christine

Why might somebody whose will was proved be missing from the Probate Registers?

judybuckley150443 — 2010-09-28 21:12:20Z

I have a probate copy of a will made by a member of my family who died in August 1901.

Probate was granted November 1901 to his brother-in-law, but the testator is not included in the Registers now available on Ancestry.

The will copy doesn't state which registry was involved. The testator, who was a Civil Engineer,lived in Dulwich but died unexpectedly after a short illness in Looe,Cornwall, where he was working at the time. The Executor lived in Saltash.

I have searched the National Archives website, but cannot find any reason why someone whose will was proved might be missing from the registers, other than the ownership personal effects worth less than £20. In fact there are many people listed with effects below £20. The testator in 1901 was not poor, and certainly left an estate worth more than £20.

Can anyone explain?