Findagrave isn't a nice place
After being a member of findagrave since Jim Tipton created the site, I've requested they delete me from their membership.
It is a race to be the submitter with the highest number of memorials (and mistakes).
Jim put a few admins in charge and many of them are cyber bullies.
Admins take memorials from contributors who have a small number, dedicated to their loved ones and give them to their friends who are in the race to be #1.
I share all my tombstone photos freely. Others go ballistic over theirs.
Why bother putting tombstone pictures of strangers on a public website if you aren't going to share them?
It would take more than one lifetime to search the entire internet and find a picture one believed was the picture one took while standing in front of a tombstone. Then, there's the tedious, legal process to wade through in order to have it removed from one website, then another and so on.
When a relative sees a picture of their loved ones tombstone, most will save and copy and share it with other family members.
It's not always possible to locate and get a response from the original submitter.
We can own the copyright to the pictures we've personally taken, but we don't own the tombstone (unless, of course, one has purchased it for their loved one).
In closing, I didn't leave findagrave over a photograph. I left because memorials that I worked hard to create, were snatched from me and given to a friend of an admin.
The admin then threatened me in an email.
At findagrave, it's not about our loved ones or finding ancestors and distant cousins. It's about the money.
******** I've been a member at Ancestry since 1997. When I'm logged in under this account it doesn't reflect that date.
It shows the correct data when I log in under my old account.
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Re: Findagrave isn't a nice place
Genuine Guide said "Why bother putting tombstone pictures of strangers on a public website if you aren't going to share them?"
Oh, but anything you see on the internt IS being shared. On the web-site of the photographer's (aka copyright owner's) choosing. Feel free to create a text link TO that site.
Genuine Guide said "It would take more than one lifetime to search the entire internet and find a picture one believed was the picture one took while standing in front of a tombstone. Then, there's the tedious, legal process to wade through in order to have it removed from one website, then another and so on."
Actually, it doesn't take very much time for either the searching or submitting a DMCA take-down notice.
GenuineGuide said "When a relative sees a picture of their loved ones tombstone, most will save and copy and share it with other family members."
Saving to your own computer and keeping it for your own records is probably fine under the "Fair Use" copyright exemption. If the "sharing" with other family members involves publishing (i.e. posting) on a web-site, that is blatant infringement UNLESS the photographer has granted permission. And why shouldn't the relative or family researcher take the time to ask? The worst possible thing that could happen was the photographer says "No". Unfortunately, too many relatives and family researchers have not yet learned to ask or to accept that answer.
GenuineGuide said "I left because memorials that I worked hard to create, were snatched from me and given to a friend of an admin."
Were the memorials you created duplicates? How do you know the other person was "a friend of an admin"? There is probably another side to this story.
GenuineGuide said "At findagrave, it's not about our loved ones or finding ancestors and distant cousins. It's about the money."
Since Find A Grave is NOT a genealogy site, of course it is not about "finding ancestors and distant cousins". Considering it is a free site (unlike the site we are on now), it's hard to understand how it is "about the money".
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Re: Findagrave isn't a nice place
But findagrave is about finding ancestors, whether or not the creator intended it to be. Of course, there is money somewhere, the creator is not doing it out of the goodness of his heart, he is getting advertising money. The more people that view the site, the more money he gets. I do agree that there are many power hungry people there, it is like some big competition to see who can post the most pictures. I appreciate when people go to a lot of work to post pictures, but when they make a big deal about how many they have done, it gets a bit old. I also hate how people will put memorials or flowers on pictures of someone who they don't know and who is not a relative, just another power trip to see how many flowers they can post. I also get tired of being hounded by people to connect relatives - If I post a picture and am managing it, it is no one's business whether the relatives are linked. To me that acts an awful lot like a genealogy site. Also, re your free comment, I am posting through Rootsweb, so it is free to me.
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Re: Findagrave isn't a nice place
This post was deleted by the author on 18 Apr 2014 9:14PM GMT
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Re: Findagrave isn't a nice place
barbdale_1 wrote: "But findagrave is about finding ancestors, whether or not the creator intended it to be." Response: No, that's how *you* use it. Most of us use census as a means of finding relatives (or info about them at a specific moment in time) but it is not and never will be *intended* for genealogical purposes unless you manage to get the U. S. Constitution changed.
barbdale_1 wrote: "the creator is not doing it out of the goodness of his heart, he is getting advertising money. The more people that view the site, the more money he gets." Response: And expenses. More people viewing the web-site requires bigger, better equipment to handle the higher traffic. As far as advertising revenue - I use Adblocker so do not even see the ads. Many web ads require click-thrus and possibly purchases made after the click-thru. Do you? I don't.
barbdale_1 wrote: "I appreciate when people go to a lot of work to post pictures, but when they make a big deal about how many they have done, it gets a bit old." Response: I honestly don't know anyone who makes a big deal out of how many memorials they have created. I see a lot of talk about "how many" memorials someone has created but those comments are usually always made by people who want discretionary transfers from the person they are talking about. Such as: "So-and-so has 50,000 memorials but they won't transfer my 3rd cousin's mother-in-law! How can they possibly 'manage' that many memorials?"
barbdale_1 wrote: "I also get tired of being hounded by people to connect relatives - If I post a picture and am managing it, it is no one's business whether the relatives are linked." Response: Find A Grave is a collaborative web-site - meaning every member can have input on any memorial. If you don't make the suggested update, the person who sent it can forward the suggestion to admins who WILL do it.
barbdale_1 wrote: "I am posting through Rootsweb, so it is free to me." Response: Rootsweb is 100% owned by Ancestry; ergo, you are using a free *portion* of Ancestry. Is ALL of Ancestry free? No. If you want to use ALL of Ancestry, you have to have a paid subscription. You may not have to pay for it (such as a library who provides access to Ancestry) out of your own pocket, but it is paid. Is the same true for Find A Grave? No. It is 100% free to anyone with internet access.
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Re: Findagrave isn't a nice place
BeNotForgotten wrote: " I don't accept undocumented family trees as proof - ever." Response: Find A Grave does not require "proof" although most of us want to be accurate. Memorials are not carved in stone so if we make a mistake, it's pretty easy to change it, isn't it? If you don't have a very good reason to not add the info, the sender can simply forward the suggestion to admins and it will be added.
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Re: Findagrave isn't a nice place
barbdale_1 wrote: "But findagrave is about finding ancestors, whether or not the creator intended it to be." Response: No, that's how *you* use it. Most of us use census as a means of finding relatives (or info about them at a specific moment in time) but it is not and never will be *intended* for genealogical purposes unless you manage to get the U. S. Constitution changed.
What the heck does this have to do with the constitution? I didn't say that is my only genealogy source, and I would not base a birth or death record on it. If it is not intended for genealogical purposes, why did the creator allow it to be linked to Ancestry? I realize he created the site because he likes gravestones, but that doesn't mean the site doesn't serve a different purpose for different purpose.
This is the statement from the Findagrave website: Quote: Burial information is a wonderful resource for people researching their families (genealogists). Most importantly, visiting a gravesite is a way of keeping the memory of someone alive. We aim to create a comprehensive 'virtual cemetery' where loved ones can visit graves, leave flowers, etc. when they cannot do so in real life due to geography, finances or other circumstances. End Quote I don't see all the ads, and never click on a web ad. I am not complaining about his using ads, I am just pointing out that he is not likely doing all this work for non profit. Whether you agree with that or not, that is my opinion.
When people are given credit for the memorials they have posted, and it is on every page with their name, that is making a big deal out of it. They would gladly transfer a memorial to a family member if they didn't care about it.
If you are linking memorials with family members, that certainly is genealogy to me. There is no excuse to do linking that is inaccurate, or undocumented, or what purpose does it serve. Are you telling me that it is not intended for genealogy, so you can put any data you want on there?
The original posters point was that Findagrave is not a nice place. In my opinion that is true - I have not looked at the boards at that site for years, because people are so nasty to each other. I used to go to cemeteries to answer requests, but after not being thanked, and people being upset that I couldn't find a non existent grave, I stopped.
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Re: Findagrave isn't a nice place
barbdale_1 wrote: What the heck does this have to do with the constitution? Response: You use the Census in your genealogy NOT the intended purpose (which was established in the Constitution). Does that change the purpose of the census? No. How you use the census (or Find A Grave) does not change the intended purpose.
barbdale_1 wrote: If it is not intended for genealogical purposes, why did the creator allow it to be linked to Ancestry? Response: He did not "allow" Ancestry to link to it. Ancestry, like Google, uses a spider to "crawl" Find A Grave and created its own index.
barbdale_1 wrote: I realize he created the site because he likes gravestones, but that doesn't mean the site doesn't serve a different purpose for different purpose. Response: Actually, he created the site because he likes to find the graves of famous people... Like the census, people use Find A Grave for genealogy but the purpose of the site remains the same: to record graves. From the Find A Grave FAQs "What is Find A Grave? Find a Grave's mission is to find, record and present final disposition information from around the world as a virtual cemetery experience."
barbdale_1 wrote: When people are given credit for the memorials they have posted, and it is on every page with their name, that is making a big deal out of it. Response: We contributors have NO control over the statistical information posted on our profiles! My name is on every memorial I create, but it doesn't like how many memorials I've created or how many photos/flowers I've posted so that portion of your statement is false. If we contribute to the database, our "numbers" grow in some way - there is no other way around that. More memorials mean more graves are being recorded, fulfilling the purpose of the site, and the site grows. Perhaps you think contributors should be limited to a certain number of memorials - which would be counterproductive to the site.
barbdale_1 wrote: They would gladly transfer a memorial to a family member if they didn't care about it. Response: Let me guess, you've wanted discretionary transfers that you didn't get? It wasn't hard to figure out. Like I said, it is the people who want to collect every leaf in their tree who are hung up on "how many" memorials someone has.
barbdale_1 wrote: Are you telling me that it is not intended for genealogy, so you can put any data you want on there? Response: I have no idea what point you are trying to make. A memorial is "complete", for Find A Grave's purpose, if it only has the name and the burial location. However, again, from the FAQs: "The ultimate goal should be to have meaningful, accurate memorials that honor those who have passed away, regardless of who created the memorial or who maintains it." Adding *details* makes a memorial "meaningful".
barbdale_1 wrote: The original posters point was that Findagrave is not a nice place. In my opinion that is true - I have not looked at the boards at that site for years, because people are so nasty to each other. Response: I've been on Find A Grave and in their Forums for nearly eight years. Generally, those who think the Forums are "nasty" tend to be those who want justification for their inappropriate behavior (i.e. duplicating) OR come into the forums complaining about the rules.
barbdale_1 wrote: I used to go to cemeteries to answer requests, but after not being thanked, and people being upset that I couldn't find a non existent grave, I stopped. Response: I volunteer for a variety of things, such as at the local food pantry. I don't expect to be thanked for those efforts. I also don't let upset people who are disappointed due to unrealistic expectations bother me personally - water off a duck's back kind of thing.
barbdale_1 wrote: The original posters point was that Findagrave is not a nice place. In my opinion that is true Response: You and the original poster are entitled to your opinions. Does that make it true or that Find A Grave should be listed under "Genealogy Scams"? No.
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Re: Findagrave isn't a nice place
Well, you guessed wrong, I have only asked for one transfer, that was for my first cousin, and it was gladly granted. I am not interesting in "collecting every link on my tree" but I do get annoyed at people who put flowers on memorials they haven't created, don't know, and are not related to, it seems disrespectful and pointless. Those are the people who seem to be just "collecting brownie points"
Again, I have browsed the forums, but have never put a post on them - so I am not judging by personal experience of being yelled at. I think we are talking semantics here - I don't mean that Find a Grave is a genealogy site in the manner that people use it to make family trees on it, but it is used by people for genealogy and even that is acknowledged by the creator as a use of the site.
I do agree that Find a Grave should not be listed under genealogy scams, I don't think it is a scam.
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Re: Findagrave isn't a nice place
barbdale_1 wrote: Well, you guessed wrong, I have only asked for one transfer, that was for my first cousin, and it was gladly granted. Response: So what is your hang-up about the numbers?
barbdale_1 wrote: I do get annoyed at people who put flowers on memorials they haven't created, don't know, and are not related to, it seems disrespectful and pointless. Those are the people who seem to be just "collecting brownie points" Response: Flowering isn't my thing but I do leave a flower when something about the memorial touches me. Ergo, there is nothing disrespectful whatsoever. Over the years, that has added up to several thousand flower "numbers". I guess I need to stop "paying my respects" because some people see it as "collecting brownie points"...
barbdale_1 wrote: I think we are talking semantics here - I don't mean that Find a Grave is a genealogy site in the manner that people use it to make family trees on it, but it is used by people for genealogy and even that is acknowledged by the creator as a use of the site. Response: So, you agree (as the site owner pointed out) it can be used as a genealogy RESOURCE although that is not the purpose. Thank you. Unfortunately many people do not understand that.
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