Legal Documents, Wills, Probate - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: reading an old English will

robandfay — 2013-04-14 01:52:54Z

Hello Christine,

In my reply I forgot to thank you for your encouragement "to have a go" myself. If not for that I'd have taken the easy way out and hand-passed it to someone else. It was like doing a 10,000 piece jigsaw puzzle, difficult but rewarding, and the information contained in it was well worth the effort.

Cheers Fay

Re: reading an old English will

robandfay — 2013-04-14 01:52:40Z

Re: reading an old English will

BelleRinger — 2013-04-12 13:27:22Z

Hi Fay,

I must apologise as I didn't see your earlier post asking me what I might charge - can't think why I missed it being as it was only sent a little while after I posted my last reply! Anyway, in the end, like you I'm glad I didn't do it for you - there's nothing like being able to gradually see what it means all by yourself. Well done! :-)

Christine

Can I get access to a Scottish Will, dated 1939?

BrianMartin629 — 2013-04-12 09:33:43Z

I am looking for the Will of a Willie Henry Martin, who died 9 Jan 1939 at the Western Infirmary, Glasgow. He was the Provost of Clydebank just before he died, and was my Grandfather's brother, and I have always wondered if he left property to relatives. Would a Will reveal this?

Is there a site other than the National Archives, where I could get this information, preferably online?

Re: reading an old English will

robandfay — 2013-04-12 03:04:08Z

I did it! (transcribing the 8 page will from 1832) You were so right about "getting my eye in" The first page was quite a struggle, but as I got used to it the whole thing got easier. The BEST info I got which helped enormously was to scan it into Adobe Reader and magnify it. So, for all you budding "will readers" out there, I hope that helps.

Mind you mine was all in English (not latin etc) I am so glad that you didn't do it for me, I had a great sense of accomplishment when I finished. I must admit though it stayed in the "too hard" basket for quite a long while

Cheers Fay

Re: Entry on probate record

halpark — 2013-04-07 23:29:48Z

One point has not been mentioned. The Public Trustee could actually be appointed directly as the Executor of an estate. Originally, I believe, this was to help poorer and less well educated people who perhaps did not have relatives educated enough and not enough money to stand lawyer's fees, to know their bits of property would be administered by a qualified person, it also meant that however long it might be until the Will was finally cleared it would not be bedevilled by Executors popping their clogs. I think I read somewhere that this function was phased out fairly recently, although I could be wrong there. It had become less and less popular for another reason. The Public Trustee was more than careful about where he put any money for keeping - something like the Post Office Savings Bank was about their limit. I had personal experience of this with a Will written in the 20s which held the capital in trust for one person for her lifetime and when she died was to be divided amongst a list of others. She did not die until the mid 90s and had actually had nothing since 1939 beause she was German and from the outbreak of war in 1939 all dividends had gone to "The Receiver of Enemy Property" and as there was no Peace Treaty between Germany and the Allies, technically we were still "at war". When she died just about the time a Peace Treaty was signed the "others" got the leftovers. Most of them were also dead by then but it was a model of sound investment. The original capital sum was £2000 - when it was paid out 70 years later the Public Trustee had increased it to a staggering £5,600! Hope they did better with yours!

Re: Entry on probate record

65hplane — 2013-04-06 21:54:26Z

Thank you both for your replies, very helpful indeed. The fact that the person named is effectively the executor or administrator of the will makes much more sense - the more probate entries I looked at, I thought it was odd that so many people left all their estate to just one or two people, or sometimes to a bank! It explains a lot!

It was a very large amount of money, £660,000 in todays money, I wonder where it all went, charities hopefully.

Many thanks again to both of you

Andrea

Re: Entry on probate record

carobradford — 2013-04-04 11:25:47Z

Hello Andrea

I think you may be misunderstanding the entry in the probate calendar which states that probate was granted to the Public Trustee. The calendars give the name of the person (or persons) to whom the grant of representation (either probate or administration) is granted in order that they may administer the deceased person's estate (i.e. bringing together all their assets and distributing them appropriately). The calendars do not name the beneficiaries of the estate (i.e. the person or persons to whom the estate was left or who are entitled to all or a share of it in the absence of a will).

The Public Trustee is, effectively, the "executor/administrator of last resort". He becomes involved if a will does not appoint executors (or if the executors named are dead or unwilling to act) and there is no appropriate living person who can or will accept the responsibility of administering the estate.

The actual grant of probate, which you can get from the Probate Service for £6.00, might give you more information. Details of how to send off for it are given at http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/copies-of-grants-wi....

Hope this helps

Caroline

Re: Entry on probate record

Merice46 — 2013-04-04 03:04:38Z

Hi,
I looked at Google and it appears it's a governement dept. charged with looking after the interests of under age children?

Regards

Sandra

Entry on probate record

65hplane — 2013-04-03 22:40:41Z

Does anyone know what it means when on the probate record it states that the money was left 'to The Public Trustees'? See attached for Fullarton James. I know his wife and one of his children were already dead (I haven't found the other childs death yet), so wondered where the money went?!

Any ideas gratefully received!

Andrea

Re: National Archive Divorce Papers

BelleRinger — 2013-04-01 13:33:03Z

Hi Josh,

I'm assuming you're talking about divorce papers in the UK, otherwise this won't be any use to you....

I don't know how things might have changed in the years up to 1933, but Ancestry have divorce papers up to 1911, so I put Smith and 1911 into the search boxes and came up with a number of results at this link:

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?rank=0&gsfn...

Just have a browse and see what you think. There can be quite a lot of information, including a marriage certificate for the divorcing parties, so it might well be worth the money, depending on how exorbitant it is, of course.

Christine

Court Records

conpeg — 2013-03-31 17:11:59Z

Can anybody provide me info on where I would obtain arrest/court records for somebody arrested in Iowa and found in the 1940 census for the Federal Reformatory in Oklahoma?

Will Probate

threepurrs — 2013-02-05 15:31:53Z

Is there any way to see the particulars of how the will was administered.. I have a will whereby the deceased died in 1895 leaving his wife and spinster daughter property to live in till the end of their lives. He also leaves a property which is to be rented until the last of his 4 children are deceased - then the property is to be sold and the monies are to be divided among his Grandchildren. His grandchildren were given money in 1956. The will was carried out according to his wishes; but I'm wondering if one can see the actual record of the administration of the will. Is this possible? I know I have all the information regarding the will itself; but would like a copy of the administration. Possible?
Thanks in advance
Wendy

Re: Will Probate

threepurrs — 2013-02-05 15:15:27Z

Thanks so much.. that is what I thought. I should be grateful for the information I have :-)

Re: Will Probate

carobradford — 2013-02-05 14:54:18Z

Unfortunately not. The grant of probate of the will was a matter of public record but its administration by the testator's executor(s) was a private one. If the executor was a solicitor he would, presumably, have kept records and I suppose it is theoretically possible that these may still languish in the firm's archives, though whether they would you allow access to them is another matter.

National Archive Divorce Papers

Robbo1326 — 2013-02-02 21:07:05Z

Hi

I have found that my Gr-Grandfather married once before in 1928 but divorced in 1933. I have asked for an estimate of the price of the papers from the National Archives.

I wanted to know, however, what was included in the papers. Will it all relate to the divorce? How many pages are average? Will I find that only one paragraph relates to my Grandfather, or will it all prove useful?

Thanks

Josh

Re: Probate records

BelleRinger — 2013-01-31 11:52:54Z

Hi Carolyn,

It depends on where in the world the probate records you're looking for are stored, but if you're interested in the Probate Registry for England & Wales, this link should give you the information you're after:

http://www.ancestor-search.info/NAT-Probate.htm

You might be lucky though and find that your local Archives office has copies of the National Probate Calendar which go up to the late 60s or even early 70s. For example, Nottinghamshire Archives has copies which cover the period 1858 to 1968, so a local archives office might be your best bet first of all. :-)

Christine

Re: Custody Records for 1880's

Jacki_Donovan — 2013-01-30 22:28:52Z

Although not directly relating to custody, this thread is an interesting discussion to the situation of the time.
Worth trying the National Archives for records.
The thread I`ve linked to suggests any divorce of that time would be held at the high court.
Interesting reading, hope it helps.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=258715.0

This link to the National Archives may prove useful
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-perso...

Custody Records for 1880's

samanthabirley1 — 2013-01-30 22:00:26Z

Could anyone advise me as to where I would need to go to find a record of a custody hearing following a divorce in the 1880's? It was my GG Grandparents divorce and I know who the children ended up with, but the 'family story' is that what happened was not what the courts decided and kidnap may have been involved! I dont believe this for a minute but I would like to know the truth for certain.

Many thanks.

Probate records

norman1913 — 2013-01-26 16:08:07Z

Does anyone know where I can find probate records from after 1966?

Many thanks

Carolyn

Where do I look for inquest information on murder?

sharpi58 — 2013-01-16 03:14:06Z

Im looking for the inquest of the murder of :- Hazel Pearl nee Fischer Byrnes. Partner John L Byrnes, Daughter Barbara Fay Byrnes. Darlinghurst NSW.
Recorded in Syd Morning Herald (Trove )September 1943. Hazel was stabbed to death by an Indonesan Seaman. He wanted to buy sly grog for 25 quid, but she said no so he stabbed her with a broken bottle. Her daughter was at home at the time.
cheers
sharon

Re: reading an old English will

robandfay — 2012-11-15 10:59:01Z

Hi Christine,

Can I ask what you would charge to transcribe 7 pages (same as the one I attached) please. An approx. amount will do, then I can make a descision abt whether I want the headache or whether I want to "hand-pass" it to some-one else.

Fay.M.

Re: reading an old English will

BelleRinger — 2012-11-15 10:31:10Z

It looks tricky, but not impossible - you just need to get your eye in, so to speak! Good luck with it, and like you say, it's a good learning activity. If you do need some help, keep asking. :-)

Christine

Re: Sale of business in London in 1939

timtracker — 2012-11-14 05:25:14Z

Do you know the exact date of the sale in 1939 ?

The war started on 3 September 1939.

Many people sold their London interests and moved north as the result of the war. I know many people made a tidy packet by clever buying in this time period. They sold, or repaired and let out, property in the post war period.

Some people might well have harboured resentments about such profiteering.

Re: Sale of business in London in 1939

timtracker — 2012-11-14 05:25:14Z

Re: reading an old English will

robandfay — 2012-11-14 02:25:04Z

Hello Christine,

Thankyou for taking the time to help me with my project. Please find a copy of the first page attached to this message. I am trying to have a go at it myself, it can only be a learning curve!!!! Really excited about finding out more about the family.

On looking at the will more closely the first page (except for a small section at the bottom) is not my relative, so there will be only 7 pages in total.

It is John Burgon & family I am interested in. I will attach the 2nd page not the 1st.

Fay. M.

Re: reading an old English will

BelleRinger — 2012-11-13 12:40:56Z

Hello Fay,

If you haven't already got someone in mind to transcribe the document for you, could you scan a small part of it and post the image on here please? If I can read it, I'd be interested in transcribing it for you - favourable rates!

Christine

Reading a will.. help!

janette1169 — 2012-11-11 16:52:06Z

Hi. I have a will that is over 500 years old. However even though i am english i cant understand a word that is said in it ! It's not written like our english today?

Would any member be able to help me read it or ' Translate' shall we say. Or point me in the right direction to anyone that can read ' olde english' if it is english that is :-)

Kind regards Janette

Re: reading an old English will

Merice46 — 2012-11-11 12:31:24Z

Hi,
I put 'Old will translation' in Google and there is info.there.

Regards

Sandra

reading an old English will

robandfay — 2012-11-11 09:43:31Z

Hello,
I have been lucky enough to find a will (Gr,Gr,Gr,Gr Grandfather from 1832). Probably contains LOTS of interesting information............only trouble is I can't read it..........beautiful even handwriting, but really difficult to understand. Eight very full pages of it!!!!!!!

I live in Australia. Can anyone put me on track as to how I might be able to get it "transcribed" and how much it might cost to do so please?

Thank you in anticipation

Regards Fay. M.

Re: FREE Birth certificate for Sarah Ellen Young, 1894, Gateshead, UK

thejedimonkey — 2012-10-26 10:07:22Z

Have a look at http://www.certificate-exchange.co.uk/

Re: Will - Dower and Thirds

KenPestell — 2012-10-22 22:04:00Z

Thank you Eveline, that's excellent!

You now also hold the record for the fastest response I have ever received, by 2 mins !!

Ken.

Re: Will - Dower and Thirds

EvelineMullen — 2012-10-22 21:56:09Z

Hope this helps, it's from a legal dictionary.

A widow's interest (sometimes just a life estate) in real property owned by her deceased husband.

At common law, "dower" is a right which only vests as of the death of the husband, and was limited to one-third of the husband's real property.

Historically, this referred to a husband's obligation to support his wife for her lifetime and in heraldic vocabulary, the word dowager when placed in front of a woman's name meant that she was a widower living off a dower.

So it looks as though if she remarried she would lose half of her annuity and all of the income from her deceased husband's estate

Eveline

Will - Dower and Thirds

KenPestell — 2012-10-22 21:27:11Z

I have recently been transcribing a Will dated 1756 in which a widow was well provided for. Except that if she re-married her annuity would be halved and she would be expected to relinquish any claim to "dower and thirds".

What were dower and thirds?

Finding the owner

gerimurray1 — 2012-10-09 23:30:50Z

I volunteer at our Hood River Family History Center. Recently someone brought in a box of old photos and papers they found in a building downtown. It appears they may belong to a John C and Catherine Wang, who owned Windpower Technologies, Inc out of Palm Coast Florida....how they got to Hood River is a good question, but if anyone knows these people, please post a message to me so we can find their owner. Thanks!

Early Canadian trade licenses

frenchlady234 — 2012-08-03 11:59:25Z

Nat Geo did an article about searching your Canadian ancestry and suggested looking at trade licenses issued to fur traders but I can't find any info about this. I haven't been able to find the article and I'm having difficulty finding anything about these online, except how they were issued, etc. I was wondering if there are sources where you can see data from them, if any still exist. The artice would be a great start. Anyone know about it? Thanks.

illinois brick wall

djsauerwein — 2012-07-26 19:16:10Z

Looking for any possible way to determine the mother and possible father of someone in my tree birth abt 1833 death aby 1909 birth kentucky death johnson county illinois. Have looked for death cert and in IRAD. Amy other suggestions?

Re: Sale of business in London in 1939

halpark — 2012-07-08 22:34:36Z

If you are talking about the property as opposed to the business the Land Registry will have records. The business would be registered with whatever Local Authority the road was then in as the new owner would have been responsible for rates (Council Tax/Business Rate)so try the relevant Local Studies Library. Presumably there is a Will - that would show the beneficiaries.

Re: Inventory of estate?

kh440 — 2012-07-06 03:21:55Z

Hi markusholmquist,

Some of the Last Will and Testaments are on-line, on microfilm or they are at the courthouse in the county where the person died. Very old wills may be stored in archives. This varies from state to state in the U.S.

New York state has probate records, but at this point, most are not indexed.

Example:

New York Probate Records, 1629-1971 (browse images)
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://f...

Minnesota seems to have an index:

Minnesota Will Records, 1849-1985 (searchable index)
https://familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://f...

Here is an article regarding these records in the U.S.:

United States Probate Records
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/United_States_Probate...

And, yes, the Last Will & Testament of a person may mention
his relatives and friends and how he would like his or her remaining assets distributed amongst them.

Feel free to ask any other questions. Good luck in your research!

Inventory of estate?

markusholmquist — 2012-07-05 22:25:37Z

Hello!
We have some problems regarding my old Swedish relatives. We are unsure of the year they were born, how many siblings they had and if they ever had children or migrated together with some other relatives to the US?
We can find them in Swedish records and find date of birth but we are unsure because it´s were vague in the old books.
Is it possibly to search and find inventory of estate in american records? One of the persons we try to find died in the US and was at that time american citizen. A inventory of estate document and/ or will would mention the closest relatives that could inherit?

Re: wills

carobradford — 2012-06-19 11:54:00Z

If the will was proved after 1858 (the date at which responsibility for probate matters passed from church to state), then follow the instructions at:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/copies-of-grants-wi...

If the will you seek is before 1858, post back with more details, as things get a bit complicated!

wills

curled — 2012-06-19 11:46:51Z

can any one please tell me how to get a copy of a will in England please thak you

Re: Writing a letter to a probate lawyer

BobNY — 2012-06-13 14:32:41Z

It has been my experience that most lawyers take all their correspondence seriously.

It should be formatted as you would format any business letter.
http://www.savvy-business-correspondence.com/BlockBizLetter....

It is difficult to give advice on wording it correctly, since we don't know what you want to say. Simple declarative sentences that get to the point quickly usually work best.

Writing a letter to a probate lawyer

aspasia118 — 2012-06-13 14:04:47Z

I need to write a letter to a probate lawyer. Has anyone done this before? I want to make sure it's formatted and worded correctly so that the lawyer takes it seriously.

the will of edley murphy.

poptoe1 — 2012-06-06 01:23:33Z

I am trying to find the will of edley murphy,the will was probated in 1820 Scott County Virginia,I found it indexed at the genealogy department at my local library,but have not been able to find the will itself ,he was born ca 1773 and died in 1820 Scott County Virginia,he married a Mary Stallard,any help would be appreciated. Thank you

Divorce Records

jillianthomas315 — 2012-05-29 17:47:54Z

Really need help where can I locate divorce records dont wont to sign up to a site only need one record sometime between 1938 and 1946, any help gratefully needed
Thanks Jill

Sale of business in London in 1939

dixmoo50 — 2012-04-12 00:01:48Z

Not sure if I'm in the right message board, but here goes! My grandfather, Howard George Dixon, was a Master Tailor and owned the business of Kerslake and Dixon, located at 12 Hanover street, London. After his death, my grandmother sold the business (and/or building?). There is some sort of family controversy that she was ripped off - bought by someone far below market value, then the purchaser resold the property for a tidy profit. My question is how to go about finding out who bought the property in 1939 (and later) and for how much. In the probate record, there is a lawyer listed as well as my grandmother. Does that mean he was a beneficiary also? How would I try to find a link between the lawyer and my grandfather's brother-in-law, who happened to be a property evaluator? Thanks so much!

probate record

PLUMLEY69 — 2012-03-14 18:52:54Z

interrested in harlan wheeler chase, charles albert chase, major levi chase ,lillian cora chase,elam.,bach. all of san diego

Re: Thoughts about the wording within a Will

BelleRinger — 2012-02-20 20:15:53Z

Ah yes, that makes it clearer!

I would say that it *does* mean as you first thought, that when the will was written there were some living siblings of the testator, and some siblings who had died. The part in brackets clarifies that it will also apply to the children of those siblings who may die by the time of the death of either the testator or of his eldest son.

Christine

Re: Thoughts about the wording within a Will

lanceewing — 2012-02-20 20:04:16Z

There is actually a little bit more to the text related to the children of the brothers and sisters. I realised after posting my message that it might be relevant:

"shall be equally divided between all my brothers and sisters that shall be living at my said sons death or at my decease (in case I should survive him) and the child or children of such of my brothers or sisters as are now dead (or shall be so at either of the aforesaid (???)) to be entitled to the part or share of his, her or their respective farther or mother in case they had been living to be equally divided amongst them if more than one, and if but one such child then the share of such deceased farther or mother wholly to that one."

The Will leaves everything to his son unless his son dies before him, in which case the above would have been actioned, but since the son was still alive then I guess there may not have been much in the way of correspondence. I know notices similar to the following appeared at least twice in the Norfolk Chronicle in 1783:

"All Persons having any legal Claim or Demand on the Estate and Effects late John EWING's, of Cringleford, in the County of Norfolk, deceased, are hereby desired to apply to Mr John EWING, of Cringleford, or to William HUGHES, of Hethersett, Executors to the said Mr John EWING, in order to receive Satisfaction of the same; and all Persons that stand any ways indebted to the Estate and Effects of the above mentioned deceased, are hereby likewise desired to discharge the same to the said Executors, in order to prevent any farther Trouble."

...so it is indeed possible that there may have been some correspondence as a result.

Lance