Huguenots-Walloons-Europe - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Surname POUT or LE POUTRE

danielpout — 2009-10-27 02:45:37Z

I stumbled across this thread while looking for a link between the Pouts who lived in county Durham in NE England from the end of the end of the 18th century onward and the Pouts in Kent. We have always assumed that somehow we are related but are missing the link. The oldest ancestor we know of in our line is William Pout (1781-1849). He was married to Catherine (1771-1847) and had a son named John who was married in Greatham to Ann Blackett in 1822. Any clues would be appreciated.

Re: CATON: 1600s Essex, ENG

Hollylianne — 2009-10-25 22:42:29Z

Not my direct ancestor no. My Frederick Caton married a Mary Ann. Although there could be a Frederick in my line that married a Rachel. My Catons come from Thaxted in Essex. Do any of yours go from yours? Hollie

Re: CATON: 1600s Essex, ENG

adeleingle1 — 2009-10-25 19:16:42Z

Hi Hollie

was frederick married to rachel?

regards
adele

Re: The Society of Saint Onge (1800s-1900s London, ENG)

kenwill175 — 2009-10-24 08:07:31Z

Hi Tony,

I have also been looking into The Society of Saint Onge. I came into contact with the Secretary about 15 years ago, it is my understanding that the society loaned some of their books to the Huguenot Society. When I first went the Huguenot Library they were not able to locate them. The Society still had some later book and as far as I know they are still functioning as a charity today.

My mother was a Grellier and the root goes back to Peter Paul Grellier c 1740

Ken Willo

Re: Huguenot Origins of PRIOLEAU: early 1800s Derbyshire, ENG

coldor110 — 2009-10-22 16:36:22Z

Thanks for the reply .I know nothing about Elizabeth Prioleau except she married Hugh Hartley and I have all the info on her as a hartley.She did sign her marriage transcript so I assume she was well educated.Any info much appreciated

Dorothy Livesey

Re: Huguenot Origins of PRIOLEAU: early 1800s Derbyshire, ENG

bethelmaria — 2009-10-22 15:14:23Z

My mother is a Prioleau. Her father was Charles Frank from South Carolina, born Charlie Franklin. Dr. Rachelle Prioleau, Clarion University may have some information regarding the history we have from research done in the 1980's. Years sgo, a co worker from France told me it means Before the WAters, I believe.

Re: Need help where to start Huguenot records in London

repunzul — 2009-10-18 00:34:39Z

Thank you, Korvis, for your two replies today. Your information gives me plenty to think about and explore. If I find anything new due to my explorations, I will post it to help others. If your or anyone else reading these postings has future suggestions, please post them.

You've been so very helpful, I can't say thank you enough.

Regards,
Debi Coe

Re: Need help where to start Huguenot records in London

Korvis_Albion — 2009-10-17 22:09:22Z

Some revisions necessary as he was apparently indentured AFTER arrival in Rhode Island.
http://www.brendabova.com/ribristol/query011.html

BAIRD, NEWCOMB, PINAUD, PINEAU, PINEO, PINNEO, SOULARD, SOULART posted by Lawrence B. Peet on Sunday, July 18, 2004:
"Any information on James PINNEO (Jacques PINEAU) or the Pinneo (PINEO) family will be appreciated: Jacques PINEAU, whose name was soon transformed into PINNEO, came to Bristol about the year 1700, in company with Jean SOULARD. Tradition relates that they fled from persecution in France, landed in Plymouth, Massachusetts; and that being unable to pay their passage across the ocean, they were sold into servitude by the captain for a term of four years. Their conduct was so excellent, however, that they were released after a few months. About the year 1725, they removed from Bristol to Lebanon, Connecticut, where PINEAU left descendants* SOULARD became a resident of the same locality. * James PINNEO had two sons and three daughters. James, the eldest son , born 1708, married Priscilla NEWCOMB, whose son, James was the father of the Reverend Bezaleel PINNEO, for fifty-three years pastor of the First Church in Milford, Connecticut, from 1796 till his death in September 1849. The PINNEO family is an extensive one, and is represented chiefly in New England and the Middle States, and in New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. Several Protestant families of this name fled from France at the period of the Revocation; among them Jeanne and Catherine PINAUD, natives of Cherveux, in Poitou. -- (Archives Nationales, Tr.) One James PINEAU was naturalized in England, January 5, 1688, at the same time with a family named SOULART. (History of the Huguenot Emigration to America, by Charles W. BAIRD. D.D., Volume II, Pages 314, 315, New York, Dodd, Mead & Company, Publishers, Copyright 1885. -- Joliet Public Library Reference Department, Joliet Illinois.) Lawrence B. Peet, (Grandson of Llora May PINNEO)"

Baird can be read on Google Books.
Also an interesting bit in J. W. Porter, "A genealogy of the descendants of Richard Porter…", starting on page 197.

Other references to Jacques Pineau and Jean Soulard in "France and Rhode Island, 1686-1800" by M. E. Loughrey or to Jacques Pineau and John Soulard by the Ontario Genealogical Society may also be of interest and perhaps you can get copies of the relevant pages through an interlibrary loan.

The years from 1688 to 1700 fall neatly in between the two references I cited previously, but you will definitely have to focus your investigation on this period and see what English data there is to be found.

Regards,
KA

Re: Need help where to start Huguenot records in London

Korvis_Albion — 2009-10-17 19:53:40Z

My references for the Royal Bounties are only two internet databases. The better is posted by RootsWeb.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~frpayments/I...

The other has more limited transcriptions from a few earlier references, but it is good to have the earlier references chime in.
http://cams-atid.ivry.cnrs.fr/refuge-huguenot/english/interr...

PINEAU was the only variation I saw. There is also one SOULARD per, but again it is not the right individual. These data plus the extracted LDS listings provide some interesting information, but seem to contribute nothing to your investigation at present. Access to the possibility of additional relevant data is made difficult by the fact that the primary reference for English Huguenots, the ‘Quarto Series,’ is not available online.

Meanwhile, I suggest you submit your own initial inquiry to the forum regarding this ancestor, with as much detail of date and location as you can provide, particularly about his early life, along with your sources. If he was indentured, who was he indentured to? When and on what ship did they arrive? It may be that your ancestor, as an indentured person, is only recorded in the ship lists (etc.) as “and servant”.

I see there are a few early American documentary references in the RootsWeb Family Trees under PINEO. It may be helpful to join up with the best and most recent of these fellow researchers. There is also the question of what documentation might exist in the English Huguenot archives. After all, he is born in France and married in RI. Ostensibly he leaves no record in the Huguenot churches. He is naturalized – when and where? And potentially he is indentured – when and where? Many persons were indentured and the Huguenot element may have little significance here. Finding and following the family he was indentured to may provide evidence of his presence in England. Beyond that however, I’m not sure what else could be expected. As the connection with SOULARD seems to follow the same path, it may help to research him also.

Regards,
KA

Re: Need help where to start Huguenot records in London

repunzul — 2009-10-17 04:57:04Z

Thank you for the extensive response to my inquiry.

I did not know about Royal Bounties - can you guide me as to where to find information about them?

Jacques/James did emigrate from Lyon to London; then came to US as an indentured servant and was released early. He married Dorothy Badcock and settled in Bristol, RI.

As of yet, I do not have anything as to what ship he arrived on nor location of naturalization. He came to the US with his lifelong friend, Jean Soulard, but no other family members. The information I have found states that he and Jean left Lyon together.

Thank you for the information that Huguenot is Calvinist. I am just now getting familiar with this side of the family and any information or directions you can point me in are helpful and appreciated.

Re: Need help where to start Huguenot records in London

Korvis_Albion — 2009-10-16 19:01:44Z

With several pages of ‘James Pinneo’ on RootsWeb, I would say he is numerously recorded, but I’m not sure how well. There is only one ‘Pinneaux’ and it’s not Jacques, it’s still James. PINNEAUX is generally rather uncommon, as is PINNEAU. As an outsider, I do not know the limitations of spelling variations that might be relevant to this investigation. Just looking at several references for Huguenots in England however, I find that the variation PINEAU has a number of documented listings in the Huguenot churches of London and in the Royal Bounties. There is also one PINEAUX. Unfortunately no James or Jacques.

Some of the more detailed RootsWeb listings indicate that the emigrant James Pinneo was born in Lyon, France, and married after reaching New England, so possibilities for his documentation in English parish registers would be rather slim and you might do better to look for him in the ship lists rather than the British Huguenot Society. You already have his naturalization. Do you have anything that gives a location? Were other family members naturalized at the same time??

One of the locations in New England that was associated with the RootsWeb investigations is Bristol, RI. This may be of interest if one takes note of the extracted LDS listings for PINEAU from the French Episcopal Church in Bristol, England. The RI town took its name from the English city, but did the settlers also have the same origins? I haven’t pinned that down yet. Also while French Episcopalian is both French and protestant, it isn’t exactly Huguenot, which is Calvinist. I can not speak to the exact extent of the BHS records regarding Episcopalian documentation. A more direct route of access to this data might be considered if this research possibility is of interest to you.

Regards,
KA

Re: RO(U)CHON: 1600s Pinasca, Italy > Pinache, Germany (Waldensian)

chiefroshong — 2009-10-16 15:44:20Z

Linda,

I just came across your post. I am currently trying to research Anna maria Talmon, my 5th great grandmother. She was married to Phillippe Rouchon. See http://www.roshong.org

Re: Need help where to start Huguenot records in London

repunzul — 2009-10-16 03:33:35Z

TOny:

My husband's ancestor Jacques Pinneaux is well recorded as being a Huguenot who fled to England about 1683, stayed, naturalized, came to the US and changed is name to James Pinneo. How can I locate the records you speak about in the first paragraph of your post? Are there any individual sites I can go to for these organizations? Any assistance is appreciated.

Thank you,
Debi Coe

Re: PARADINE HUGUENOTS

Korvis_Albion — 2009-10-14 18:45:59Z

You say, “I know my family descended from huguenots I just haven't discovered when yet!” What about where, or perhaps who? Huguenot ancestry is proven by evidence, not by intuition. I’m not going to debate your family history, I’m not looking and you’ve said nothing. Just from the data that I saw previously, there was nothing to indicate a Huguenot connection, but there certainly may be further information in other sources. Given that there is early PARADINE documentation in London, it is always a possibility that your Huguenot connections are on the maternal side rather than the paternal side. With all the various possibilities and complexities, a fully developed family tree is an indispensible part of any genealogical investigation. If you desire assistance from other researchers, then relevant information from your investigation needs to be presented. The best method for this is a family group sheet for your oldest well-known ancestor.

You say, “Still don't understand the 1800 thing though...” Seriously? Well try, try again. When the various groups of refugees came to England (Huguenots, Walloons etc.), they often formed their own communities with their own churches and maintained their own church documents. The movement of these refugees culminated with the revocation of the Edict of Nantes in 1685 and ended in the subsequent decades. The Royal Bounties etc. are a record of the aid these refugees received from the government. Over time these people and their descendants were absorbed into the general population. As a result of the communities dispersing, their churches and other institutions came to a close and the documents they generated also ended. The approximate last date for any document of a ‘Huguenot’ description, as offered by your source, is stated as 1800 – if not earlier. Therefore, stated in a general perspective, all Huguenot documentation ends before 1800, because no Huguenot communities or institutions existed after 1800 to generate any further records after that time. And as a result, it is your responsibility to connect to the documentation provided by the Huguenot society, as they can not use their collection of Huguenot reference data (which is pre 1800) to connect to you - assuming they possess additional data beyond what you have already presented.

Regards,
KA

Re: Need help where to start Huguenot records in London

ronmesnard — 2009-10-13 23:19:17Z

Just because your ancestor was French does not mean that they are Huguenot. Huguenots were a small percentage of the population in France. Even if your ancestors were Huguenot in France, unless they are in the Huguenot records that Tony checked it will be an extremely difficult to prove. You will need to find them in the records of a Huguenot church then prove the connection.

Re: PARADINE HUGUENOTS

ClaireParadine — 2009-10-13 19:12:47Z

I know my family descended from huguenots I just haven't discovered when yet!
Still don't understand the 1800 thing though...
c

Re: PARADINE HUGUENOTS

Korvis_Albion — 2009-10-13 16:08:16Z

First of all, do not presume that there is any relationship connecting these data listings simply based on surname similarities. If you want extracted information, LDS shows listings for PARADINE | PARRADINE in the early 1600s in Bedford and Buckingham and a bit later in London. It appears that there are already various family lines at this time. But what matters here is not a bunch of names and dates, it is the relevance to your family ancestry. You must establish that relevance generation to generation. You can’t just pull listings from a hat. Use the census listings and parish register information to establish the when and where of what is known about your oldest generation of ancestors and it’s a go from there. You’ll know Huguenot ancestry when you see it.

As to why 1800, it is, after all, 200 years of genealogy. Obviously someone has to do it and it won’t be them. They have no Huguenot information after 1800, as they say. It is the limit of their database. Just finding a random person in the database with an identical or similar surname simply isn’t good enough, you have to prove that the person actually was one of your ancestors.

Regards,
KA

Re: Mesnards in Charente Maritime

ronmesnard — 2009-10-12 12:11:00Z

I will need to check the LDS out. I haven't done so in over a year. I had always assumed that France distroyed all the church records. The Huguenot war was all about money. After building Versilles, France was broke. Only legitimate children could inherit. The edict of Nantes stated only catholic marriages were legal. However, distroying all records would insure France could never back peddle. In England they were burning Catholic churches with every one inside. That is the ultimate solution. Even in the colonies, British burned all non Anglican churches that they came across and whent out of their way to find.

I can't get too excited other than some Huguenot records do exist. Mesnard is a common name in that region. Not far to the south there was a Mesnard castile. I have heard the ruins are now a resort. I suspect Dan's parents are Andre Mesnard and Miss DuBois.

Re: Crequi, Markoe - France to West Indies ca 1685

redmond8353 — 2009-09-25 14:42:04Z

KA -

Thank you! Didn't see your reply until today. I don't deny the Huguenot tradition - nor do I support it. I believe the family I am interested in (the Markoes) might have fabricated some of their history as a means of disguising their somewhat curious origins.

Re: FREE Index of Huguenot Cemetery: Nod Hill, Wandsworth (London), ENG

winwill — 2009-09-28 15:19:42Z

Thank you very much. winwill Ontario Canada

Re: FREE Index of Huguenot Cemetery: Nod Hill, Wandsworth (London), ENG

winwill — 2009-09-28 15:19:33Z

Thank you very much. winwill Ontario Canada

Re: FREE Index of Huguenot Cemetery: Nod Hill, Wandsworth (London), ENG

winwill — 2009-09-28 01:19:26Z

Hello,
My Blackbourne ancestors are interred at Mount Nod (Nod Hill). I do have the transcriptions already but am wondering if there is any biographical data about William Blackbourne (born 1717, died 1796), his wife Frances Burbidge (born 1721, died 1788), their daughter Ann Blackbourn (died 1800), son Edward George (died 1787) All are interred at Mount Nod Cemetery.
Any further information will be most welcome. Do you have any suggestions at to how to find the names of the parents of William Blackbourn (born 1717 Wandsworth, Surrey)? I am wondering if indeed he was born there as I have not found any records after years of searching.

Re: Mesnards in Charente Maritime

Nelehelbon — 2009-10-11 07:57:43Z

Whilst searching the Reform Church records of La Tremblade (very near Marennes) for my ROBERT family, I noted the following references to MESNARD.
Jeanne, wife of Andre Robert, 15 Nov. 1654
Catherine, godmother of Andre Robert (son of the above)
Pierre, brother of Jeanne above. He was Capitaine de Marine and uncle of Jeanne Robert(dau of Jeanne & Andre).
This may be of interest to you.
Helen Noble

Re: Mesnards in Charente Maritime

Nelehelbon — 2009-10-12 05:00:49Z

Sorry it wasn't clear to you.
1.Jeanne MESNARD married Andre ROBERT in La Tremblade, 15th November 1654.
2.Pierre MESNARD was Jeanne's brother.
3.Catherine MESNARD was the godmother of Jeanne & Andre's son, also named Andre.

All the above is information I found whilst looking for my ROBERT ancestors in two microfilms from the LDS. "Registres Paroissiaux, 1593-1792 Eglise reformee de La Tremblade (Charente-Maritime)". There may have been more MESNARDS but as I was looking for ROBERT, I did not note down any others.
Hope this is of some help.
Helen

Re: Huguenots from Wales to Manakin VA , King William Parish

ncannon51 — 2009-08-24 02:01:04Z

I thank you for your information. I didn't think there had been any Huguenot colonies in Walsh, but the information I was going on was that my ancestor had left France and went to Wales because of an aquaintance. Maybe this was his stopping off place before locating elsewhere (London possibly). So, I will quit hunting in the Wales area. Also, my ancestor, as the story goes, was sixteen when he came to America, against his parents wishes, and he may have stowed away.
He shows up in Virginia in 1729 in records, marriage, land records, etc. John (Jean) Bernard born in England in 1706, came to America in 1720, from my information. Again, thank you for your help. Nancy

Re: BERNARD: FRA > ENG > VA, USA

ncannon51 — 2009-08-19 05:19:02Z

Dear Tammy:

You and I are searching the same line and I'm having the same frustration you are. I don't know what ship he was on, but my information is that he came over in 1720 to Maryland or Virginia. Your message is seven year old! Maybe you have found some better info in that time and you can help me. Are you a descendant of John Bernard, as I am? Nancy

Re: Huguenots from Wales to Manakin VA , King William Parish

ncannon51 — 2009-08-19 04:34:13Z

I have been asking the same question. I'm not having any luck.
My family is "Bernard" and I believe they left Wales, or somewhere, in 1720. What is your family line?

Do you suppose they left from Liverpool, Ireland?

Nancy

Re: Suffolk Jays

Korvis_Albion — 2009-08-19 18:47:47Z

The question of exclusivity is the start of a somewhat slippery slope. Generally it is better to investigate the possibility until it is proven, than to make the assumption and then look for contradictions. Just from a brief investigation, it appears that the number of early listings – pre 1600 – in various parts of England are too numerous to derive from a few recently immigrated refugees. While some names and some families certainly do have singular sources, it is also true that many surnames and those families have derived from different, multiple sources. It is necessary that you establish for yourself the details of your specific family ancestry, rather than just follow a particular surname.

There is a listing that has been extracted from the Church of England parish register of Pettistree in Suffolk for the baptism of Jone Jaye in 1541. It is in the LDS archive. Time-wise, relating to Jean Calvin and Huguenot origins, this is in the ballpark, but the location is hardly one where Huguenots would be found at that time. Better luck perhaps with Jehan Le Jay (1591-) in Canterbury at the Walloons or Strangers Church, also through that source. It seems unlikely to me that this evidence will support a single family source for this surname.

Regards,
KA

Re: Lepine in Wales??

Korvis_Albion — 2009-08-21 23:44:27Z

An interesting story and an all too common dilemma. It’s always difficult to establish a person’s ancestry without knowing their town of origin. I didn’t see Isaac Lebine in the 1841 Wales Census. Ancestry lists an Isaac Levina, age 35, in Breconshire. Maybe that’s just Ancestry. Lebon / Lebun and Levan / Levin are present in other parts of Wales in 1841.

If he was born in Prussia, then it would be interesting to know what possibilities might exist for finding immigration and naturalization records for him.

The majority of French refugees in the German states in the years after 1685 went to the state of Brandenburg. Brandenburg was then a significant part of the Prussian kingdom formed in 1701. If this is the path of your ancestry, then there are 100-150 years of family history in Germany to be investigated.

There are two literary sources on Huguenots in Germany that refer to the surname Lepine (Lépine). You do have to sign in to see the listings.
http://www.familie-loyal.de

1) Béringuier (1888) is the Brandenburg census taken at the end of 1699. This book has been scanned by GoogleBooks.
2) Muret (1885) lists the surname in the town of Rossow in 1700.

Both listings may refer to the same event, but may not be identical.
There is also a listing for l’Epine in Béringuier. Search using ‘Epine’.

Certainly no guarantees that this is relevant, but you never know.

Regards,
KA

Re: Need help where to start Huguenot records in London

barbcanton — 2009-09-28 13:48:53Z

I am very interested in the "Lamont" you found listed in the records. Would you have any further information?

My ancestor "Lamont" was said to have been a Huguenot, but I am having difficulty tracing backwards from Ireland 1880's....but a set of brass candlesticks hand forged in France have continued to be passed from Father to Son.

Re: MY HUGUENOT FAMILY FROM PONS REGION & CORNWALL

padrespor — 2009-09-02 12:27:28Z

Hi Val,

I just came across your Hammill reference. My husband is descended from the same family. Have known about the Pons connection for some time but have got no further back. My husband is from Philip, son of Peter. Eventually, after a few generations of Philips, Elizabeth Hammill (b1811 at Gwinear), married John Moon at Crowan and their son came to the Victorian goldfields (Australia).

My email address is padrespor@bigpond.com

Pat Draper

Re: Indexed church records: Havre & Rouen, FRA

amegget1 — 2009-09-18 08:29:11Z

For Tony Fuller
Hi Tony
Would you have time to check if you have any records for Rouen that mention the MICHEL surname please.
Possibly in the Bolbec area.
May I know the dates of the records you have, i.e earliest and latest.

Many thanks
Anne Megget
New Zealand

Re: Lepine in Wales??

Belinda937 — 2009-08-22 07:37:38Z

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and give me some hints of possible ways forward for me.

I must apologise, I got it wrong in my initial message, Isaac Levine is found in 1841 living in london Middx, at a lodging house, then in 1851 he is in Abergevenny, 1861? I can't find them, and then the rest of the family I can trace but Isaac disappears, I can't find any death record for him and by now the family are in London. I do find emmigration records to USA, but whether it is him or not I do not know, as he appears to be married to someone else then? He wouldn't have been young either?

Anyway, thank you very much for you help.

Take care
Best redards
Belinda

Re: VOULLAIRE: FRA > GER, NL, Prussia & SWE (1700s)

Belinda937 — 2009-08-21 15:24:15Z

Hello,

Just out of curiosity I need help and as you mention Prussia in your messages I am taking a long shot.
I go back as far as the 1841 England census, I found my gggggrandfather Isaac Lepine b 1803 a traveler from Prussia.
That's where I end, I can go no further. Family legend? fable,story, has it that we were from Huguenot descent the name was Le Vin, we had vineyards the women were weavers. Having found Isaac, I traced him and found the name changed from Lepine to Lebine and finally to Levine, because of the later all hints and tips from boards have directed me to the Jewish sectors of Prussia, but I still havent found anything. Then I get a message saying that they think I am looking in the wrong place and that the name is Huguenot and I should look down that route. I'll be honest I don't even know where to start. I have not been able to find Isaac in Prussia with the help of contact in Germany as they need a place, there is no place on marriage certs just Prussia. I'm truely stuck.

Are you able to advise me?
1 - re Huguenot links
2 - where to go from here.

Sorry to jump in here.

Thanks you
Sincerely

Belinda

Re: Lepine, Delaspine, Eglise wallonne

Belinda937 — 2009-08-21 14:52:28Z

Hello, I have read these three messages and can only pluck up the corrage to ask a question and basically ask for help.
Now this might be a bit long winded and I apologise in advance but I have come full circle and I think you might understand why?

The family story/information goes like this....
My mothers maiden name 'Levine' father and siblings have told me during their life time that the name was changed and that we originate from the Huguenots. The name originally 'Le Vin'; we ran vinyards and came to England, there is a block of flats in Maidstone area called 'Le Providence' and only decendants from the huguenots can live there.

Now during my research I found my gggggrandfather in the 1841 census named 'Lebine', from Prussia. I do months of research there being told the name is Jewish, something which my grandad was adamant we were not, we are all C of E going back ages. I place a message on the Europe board and got a message informing me that they think I am looking in the wrong place and that I should be looking into the Huguenot migration as many did infact go to Prussia first before finally going to England.
Isaac changes his name to Lepine then finally to Levine, a name used ever since. He settles in Wales moves to Sheffield then the family divide some of his off spring stay in Wales some come to London, to the East End.
Some of the women are weavers, Isaac was a cutlery dealer, some of his children are blacksmiths. The next generation are sea fairers my grandad being a merchant Seaman for almost 23 years, he then became a Ventilation and duct designer, working on Churchills bunkers in Whithall and working on tanks and their design during the second world war in Western Super Mare.
I do hope you can see my dilema? I am desperate to find Isaac's roots and just do not know which way to turn especially as I can find no break in the lack of information.

Family are convinced we are from the Huguenots, I am keeping a very open mind, although I need to progress and I don't know where?

Can anyone help or advise me or a possible route to take?

Sincere thanks
Belinda

Re: Huguenots from Wales to Manakin VA , King William Parish

TonyFDordogne — 2009-08-21 05:46:02Z

I'm not saying that they're not Welsh but there were no Huguenot colonies ever recorded in Wales - trust me on this, I'm an expert on Huguenot history. There are only 4 references to Wales in the whole of the Hug Soc of GB's Proceedings in a period of 130 years, if there was a Welsh Huguenot presence, there would have been records of some kind.

There was a large and flourishing Huguenot/French Protestante community in Bristol, England which always was a gateway to Wales and was one of the if not the major port for Welsh exports including their people.

It is of course likely that 'your' Pembertons were members of a Huguenot family or were Huguenot descended. It's also possible that people in the Pemberton family were encouraged to move to the Colonies because they had particular skills that the Manikin Town community needed and may have been longer term immigrants to Wales from France. There were thousands of non-Huguenot French and Walloon people naturalised in Britain by Henry VIII in 1544 before the Walloon or Huguenot Diasporas started and they may have been part of that group.

As I've found several references to the Pemberton name in Huguenot records - I have the largest Huguenot specific digitized database there is - they obviously were part of Huguenot communities.

Do not assume tyhat the fact Breton and Welsh is similar has any bearing on this. The French Churches in Britain wrote in what was then a modern French which we would with difficulty regognise today, the Breton/Welsh link is a complete red herring.

Re: Huguenots from Wales to Manakin VA , King William Parish

TonyFDordogne — 2009-08-20 06:17:08Z

Just carried out a search on my Huguenot database, some of which is not available elsewhere and have come up with 22 Pemberton hits with links to or as part of, Huguenot communities.

Email me is you want more details.

Regards

Tony Fuller
Huguenot Trails
24220 Berbiguieres
France

Re: Huguenots from Wales to Manakin VA , King William Parish

TonyFDordogne — 2009-08-20 06:09:23Z

I think that your understanding of Huguenot history is way off but leaving that aside for the time being, it's likely that the refugees sailed from either Bristol or Plymouth (where the Pilgrim Fathers sailed from) both of which we then the major ports for people leaving for the colonies in America.

Regards

Tony Fuller
Huguenot Trails
24220 Berbiguieres
France

Re: VOULLAIRE: FRA > GER, NL, Prussia & SWE (1700s)

TonyFDordogne — 2009-08-24 15:59:05Z

I may be able to help here but with historical context. If your family was displaced because of the French Revolution, they were unlikely to have been Huguenot/French Protestantes because the freedom to worship was granted very early on so there was no need for Protestantes to flee France.

If they were displaced by the Revolution, it's likely that they were royalists or were in the French Army and then decided to settle in one of the areas or close to one of the areas in which the Army fought.

Re: VOULLAIRE: FRA > GER, NL, Prussia & SWE (1700s)

TonyFDordogne — 2009-08-24 15:58:05Z

Re: D'ERFWHEELER Surname: France > India

kerrygray126 — 2009-10-08 08:46:12Z

hi,ive had the same trouble although ive found some d`erwheelers on ancestry.co.uk im trying to find my husbands real mother.he was adopted.his name was darren james lansdowne d`erfwheeler.he was born in poole-dorset in hampshire and was born on january 4th 1981.i would really love to find her for him.we dont know his mothers name so if you know of anything please could you email me.thank-you.my email address is kerry.gray@rocketmail.com

Re: Mesnards in Charente Maritime

ronmesnard — 2009-10-12 01:34:19Z

I am interested but I am not clear on the reference. Do you know his name? How was he related to Jeanne, her brother? Then Jeanne was a Mesnard?

PARADINE HUGUENOTS

ClaireParadine — 2009-10-05 10:44:37Z

I have been given this info from the society but what do I do now?
I am trying to link my family to Huguenots....obviously...
The Huguenot Society publishes volumes in what we call The Quarto Series, and annual editions of its Proceedings. The former are mainly transcriptions of Huguenot church registers and lists of Huguenot names extracted from other sources. Proceedings contain articles on a wide range of Huguenot topics and people.

These are the references to Paradine :

1 Quarto Series vol 12. The Dutch church in Colchester.
From the register of the Colchester Grammar School, the transcriber extracted names of pupils probably of Dutch descent. Among them he found:
12 Sept 1710, William Paradine, a free scholar and son of William and Sarah. He had been baptised at St James the Greater in Colchester 14 Feb 1700.

2 Quarto Series vol 33, extracts from the records of the Weavers’ Company (in Guildhall Library in London) page 16:
Josias Christian, a Frenchman, admitted 12 Dec 1664. There is then a reference to a Mrs Mary Parradine’s pensioners. Who this lady was, I’ve no idea.

3 Quarto Series vol 13, baptisms register of Threadneedle Street Church in London (the largest Huguenot congregation in the British Isles):
23 June 1678 was baptised James, son of James Paradie and Anne Miohe his wife. Godfather was Andrien (could be Andrew or Adrien), godmother, Dorotez Vanderliegue. Paradie could a misspelling of Paradine.

4 Proceedings vol 2. The index we currently have only gives the name and the volume in which a reference occurs, so it is of little use unless of a well known Huguenot family.

I have been told the following:

"There is no short cut to discovering whether one’s ancestors were Huguenots; it is a patient search back through the standard records to about 1800. Most Huguenot records finish before or about that date. Beware that spelling of names can change over time."

Why back to 1800...this is the bit I find confusing. Anyone???

cx

Re: Huguenots from Wales to Manakin VA , King William Parish

MPemberton61 — 2009-08-22 02:40:00Z

I think there might be a little misunderstanding . I never said there were any Huguenot colonies in Wales . What I did say is that several Welsh families may have settled in the Brittany region , of France , where they met the Huguenots with the two groups of people later settling in the town of Manakin VA , in what was then known as King Williams Parish . I did not have any idea as to what part of England they may have left from as they started their journey to the New World . I have to thank you for providing that information .

This is the source of my information about the Welsh family Harris in Manakin VA from the Google Book "The personal and family history of Charles Hooks and Margaret Monk Harris By James Coffee Harris" page 51 ,
(this is quite a long URL) " http://books.google.com/books?id=hbhRAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA51&am...

Re: Huguenots from Wales to Manakin VA , King William Parish

MPemberton61 — 2009-08-20 02:41:24Z

My family line is the surname Pemberton . I now believe I am descended from a John Pemberton that came to Manakin VA in the year 1700 and that his family probably came from Glamorgan County , Wales . From what I've read about another Welsh family named Harris that came to Manakin VA during the reign , of King James II , of England , who was trying to return England to Catholicism several Welsh Protestant families left Glamorgan County , Wales for the Brittany region , of France , where they intermixed with French Protestants who were called Huguenots who were starting to face persecution by the Catholic majority in France . Later when the Protestant king William III took the throne in England he provided sanctuary to the Huguenots and their Welsh friends and in laws on a plot of land that would become known as King Williams Parish which then included the town of Manakin VA .
Unfortunately I do not know what part of the British Islands they would have left on their journey to the New World .

Re: Huguenots from Wales to Manakin VA , King William Parish

MPemberton61 — 2009-08-21 02:31:58Z

Something I forgot to add to my response . I don't know if this is of any significance , but the people of the Brittany region of France are related to the Welsh and their language Breton is related to the Welsh language .

Re: Huguenots from Wales to Manakin VA , King William Parish

MPemberton61 — 2009-08-21 02:06:06Z

Perhaps my knowledge of the Huguenots is inaccurate , but I do know the Pembertons , of Manakin VA , were Welsh and I do know the story another Welsh family named Harris gave about why they were in the Huguenot colony , of Manakin VA . Also I might add the surname Pemberton is very common in Glamorgan County , Wales . There must be some reason why these Welsh families would have settled in the Huguenot colony , of Manakin VA , since the only connection the Pembertons have with France is that the earliest Pembertons of 12th century Lancashire , England were descended from Normans that came into England during the Norman Conquest , of England , in the year 1066 A.D..

Suffolk Jays

rjay131 — 2009-08-17 14:09:52Z

The surname Jay is certainly one that belonged to Huguenots, but was it exclusively so? My late C18 and early nineteenth century Jay ancesors were from the Thorndon, Rishangles, Occold area of Suffolk near Eye, but that does not appear to be a significant area of early H. settlement. Does anyone have any information?

Re: FREE Index of Huguenot Cemetery: Nod Hill, Wandsworth (London), ENG

jen_fras — 2009-09-28 06:12:12Z

Hello winwill - I have looked at the records again but can't find any other info for you. If I come across anything will post to this site.

Five Huguenot lines in Mittelfranken

Richard_Sale — 2009-09-29 18:00:04Z

This part of my ancestral investigation has brought me to the early French-Reformed communities of Mittelfranken in Bavaria. The cities of Erlangen and Schwabach were at that time located in the historical states of Brandenburg-Bayreuth and Brandenburg-Ansbach respectively, and also the village of Wilhelmsdorf, which has a more involved early political history. The town was purchased from the Margrave Christian Ernst of Bayreuth by Sir Isaac Buirette von Oehlefeld, an interesting person of Walloon origins, and in one source the village was listed as part of Bayreuth-Culmbach.

These are the persons representing the five lines of Huguenot ancestry which I am investigating.

1.] Jean SALE
He is first documented in the Wilhelmsdorf French-Reformed Kirchenbuch (FRKB) at his marriage in 1719. Later he is listed as Jean LaSale and Jean Sales at the births of his children. He was a stocking-maker in Wilhelmsdorf and he was buried there very early in 1744. His parents and his origins have not been established. Several years after his death, members of his family moved to Erlangen.

2.] Marie Antoinette AVIÉNY
She was the wife of Jean Sale and is listed in the Wilhelmsdorf FRKB as the mother of their children. She was born in Wilhelmsdorf in 1701 according to the research of Eugen Bellon published in his book, "Scattered to all the Winds (1685-1720):…" Her father, Daniel Aviény, was for over 20 years the first secretary for the second foundation (1694) of a French community in Wilhelmsdorf. His origins were in the village of Abriès in the Queyras valley, up in the mountains of eastern Dauphiné southeast of Grenoble, now in Hautes-Alpes (05) There is some further information on this man and his family from Bellon and other sources.

3.] Sigismond Daniel Eberhard HORNIG
He was married in Erlangen-Neustadt in 1764. He was a church musician in the town of Bruck and is presumed to have then become the organist for the French-Reformed Church of Erlangen. His parents are listed as Jean Daniel Hornig and Sophie Christine Sänger. His wife was Catalene Vielzeuf. At the time of the wedding, his father was a French-Reformed music director in Heilbron and his mother was deceased.
If this family name really has a French origin, it appears at this time to have been completely Germanized. Huguenot listings show surnames such as HORNUS or HORNISSE, but nothing has been established.

4.] Antoine VIELZEUF
He was married in Schwabach in 1719 according to Wilhelm Beuleke’s listings in "Kolonielisten" (from data provided by the German Huguenot Society) and he was the father of Catalene Vielzeuf (1743). His place and date of birth are not known, but he died in Erlangen in 1754 at age 60. His parents were Pierre Vielzeuf and Marguerite Chantelonne from the village of Saint-Maurice-de-Ventalon. The village was located in Gévaudan, according to the German sources, or located in the parish of Saint-Germain-de-Calberte in the Cévennes in other listings. Today it is in Lozère (48). Additional listings are found in Beuleke’s "Die Hugenotten-Kolonien in Franken."

5.] Marie Madeleine FONTANÈS | FONTANEZ
She was the wife of Antoine Vielzeuf and mother of Catalene. She was born in Schwabach in 1701 and her parents were Fleury Fontanès and Madeleine Couton. It is believed that he was from the town of Sommières north of Nîmes in the Languedoc, now Gard (30). She died in Erlangen in 1772. Her data is from the same two Beuleke references. The actual sources remain intangible and somewhat evasive from my perspective.

Much of the early refugee settlement in Erlangen and particularly in Wilhelmsdorf was transitory rather that longer lasting. There was sickness in Erlangen and Georg Schanz has published a list of those departing in 1687/88. The French community founded at Wilhelmsdorf in 1686 failed several years later on and it was the second foundation of 1694 that soon became a major player in the stocking manufacturing industry. The French community in the city of Schwabach was also founded early on, but both of my Schwabach families, though found the city census of 1716, do not appear to be among the founders. Of course there was a situation building up in the south of France that led to the Camisard Revolt c. 1700 indicating a continuing state of unrest.

Much of the data relating to the Huguenot refuges in Mittelfranken thus far has naturally focused on Erlangen and is mostly prior to 1700, with the other part found in the later census listings from Schwabach. My investigations, meanwhile, are outside Erlangen early on and only converge there in the Erlangen FRKB beginning several decades later. (c. 1735 from Schwabach, c. 1750 from Wilhelmsdorf & 1764 in Erlangen-Neustadt) For whatever reasons, the accessibility of data in the second decade (1695-1705) after the revocation is far more limited than it is for the first. And it is during this time closer to 1700 that several groups of refugees who had been in various Swiss cities are said to arrive in the Mittelfranken area, such as the troupe of Anthoine Tholozan in 1699 listed by August Ebrard.

Always interested to compare notes with others involved in similar investigations.

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