I am looking for the details of the birth and parentage of Daniel COURCHA. He died aged 36 in 1859 having married Jane Ann RUFFEY (probably about 1844) and fathered Jane(1845), Ann(1853) and Daniel(1856). So far my searches have drawn a blank, although I have found plenty of information of other COURCHA's descended from William COURCHA and Harriet SIMMS I have not been able to link these to my family. I believe the name COURCHA to be of Huguenot origin. I would appreciate any help. Daniel was a silk weaver.

My first glimpse in the LDS listings for COURCHA appears as you say. There is William, not Daniel. The listing for Jean COURCHEE, ch. 1734 Threadneedlestreet, is a valid Huguenot reference. The present difficulty is the proof of any familial relationships.
http://www.familysearch.org

Having entered COURCHA and also gotten COURCHEE, one might think that all relevant data had been retrieved from this source. This would be incorrect, however, as a search for COURCHE reveals a greater number of Huguenot listings and also the 1881 Census listing for the younger Daniel <1857> in Bethnal Green. COURCHAY also shows two Huguenot christenings at Threadneedlestreet pre-1685. So there is an earlier Jean COURCHAY clearly established in London before the revocation of the Treaty of Nantes. One might suspect an original French name, COURCHÉ, being variously misrendered by the different authors of these historical documents. In searching the database, it is always possible that you can’t find the data because you haven’t misspelled the name in a certain way.

Perhaps you have seen the 1851 census for Daniel COURCHA. In addition a search for Daniel COURCHE in Bethnal Green produces listings for Henry <1806> and Joseph <1815>, plus a Daniel CHERCY <1800>.
http://search.ancestry.com

At this point it is really helpful to establish who these people were. Given the matching location, one has to consider that CHERCY is at least suspicious. In order to investigate more deeply, to confirm or eliminate such a possibility, it is frequently necessary to obtain copies or full and complete transcripts of potentially relevant documents. Internet transcriptions are known to omit certain information which MAY be on the original documents, for example.

You have established Daniel <1824> as the focal ancestor for your research and you have discovered a number of facts about him. Continue to do so and don’t forget about his wife, her surname is also present in the census. She was also present at the wedding. Do you have a wedding document for them, documents for the christening of their children or a death document that MAY have the answer to your questions about his origins? Church records are frequently the best source of information.

Regards,
KA

Thank you for your information. I have tried numerous name variations including the ones that you suggested with the exception of CHERCY. I haven't managed to locate the marriage of Daniel COURCHA (1824) to Jane Ruffy. I wondered whether they were non-conformist and therefore not listed in the usual places. I do have a copy of the birth certificate for Daniel COURCHA (1856) which gives both the above names. When this Daniel married Anne Morey his name was spelled COURSHA and he was a carpenter. I have all the death certificates as well but they don't shed any light on their origins.

My Grandmother always pronounces the name as Courshay so it is possible that there is a link to the earlier family.

I have searched through the cencuses but it has been difficult to follow all the name variations. I have the 1851 page showing Daniel and family. I have either missed or did not realise the relevance of CHERCY. I will check it out. I will also check out Henry and Joseph as they don't fit into the other family either.

Each of the ‘S’ variants [COURSHA, COURSHAY, COURSHE, COURSHEE] has at least one listing (LDS), most obviously the 1881 census listing for Jane COURSHAY, the widowed silk winder. The RUFFY surname also seems to have Huguenot connections in Bethnal Green and a number of possible variations.

In addition there is the Jean COURCHÉ from Rouen in the London aid listings for 1705.
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~frpayments/C...
There don’t seem to be any other variants here. This is one of the places you can expect to find information on the POST-1685 Huguenots, but the PRE-1685 listings for COURCHAY indicate a potential for there to be more than one occasion where this “surname” may have immigrated to England.

If surname investigation is the first phase of your research, then the identification of a specific, relevant location is the second, because this is where the documents are (or were originally). Determining the existence, status, extent of the documentary sources at this location then becomes the third stage. What sources have you been using to search for the marriage of Daniel (1824)? Internet info has bigger holes than Swiss cheese. The census listings miss people or the entries are illegible. And remember if you can’t follow the groom to the wedding, follow the bride.

Also if you have a birth certificate for Daniel (1856), where is that document from? Can you establish a specific church for his sisters and parents? At that church you may find some unique surname variant, like CHERCY or whatever. Do you have a death certificate for Daniel (1824) and it gives no indications of his origins? That’s not very helpful. What is its source? Finding the answer to a more difficult question requires a greater attention paid to the details.

Regards,
KA

Although not a direct descendant I am also interested in Daniel Courcha as part of an overall Courcha research.Most Courcha's seem to be descended from William Courcha and Harriet Sims however there are a few like Daniel who come from some other source,possibly a brother of William's.In the 1841 census William and Harriet's family was recorded as CUSHWAY (although ancestry deciphered it as CURBOW).There son Charles and his family were also recorded as CUSHWAY in 1841 and the 1851 census,1851 he was living next door to his brother Joseph who had the Courcha name.Another son William is recorded in 1851 as CUSHWAY he married Hannah HAJAN which seems to have been HOGAN.In the 1871 census there is an entry for Henry CUSHWAY or COURCHA,written clear as day.
CUSHWAY - COR-SHAY I guess that's how the enumeraters heard it.

Thanks for that. I'll look into it. I would never have thought of that variation but it makes sense when you say it.

Not only is CUSHWAY the dominant form in Bethnal Green in the 1841 Census, it is also numerous in the extracted listings circa 1800 for Bethnal Green and elsewhere that are found in the LDS archives. Primarily there are four families with children christened at St. Matthews at this time.
James and Jean CUSHWAY – Nine children 1787-1804
Samuel and Susanna CUSHWAY – Eight children 1787-1805
William and Mary CUSHWAY – Nine children 1791-1811
Charles and Elizabeth CUSHWAY – Eight children 1794-1810

With some verification from in the 1841 Census: Samuel <1766>, Susanna <1766>, Elizabeth <1776> and possibly others.

While William and Harriet are also apparently found in Bethnal Green in the 1841 Census, the christenings of eight of their children (1815-1834) are recorded in the extracted LDS listings from St. Leonards in Shoreditch.

Regards,
KA

The birth certificate for Daniel (1856) and death certificate for Daniel(1824) were both obtained from GRO which may explain the lack of additional data.

However I may have found a possible birth now for Daniel snr on IGI. There is a Daniel Courcher born 22 Nov 1822 and christened 9 Sep 1823 at St Leonards, Shoreditch, father John and mother Ann. Also found John Coursha born 7 Nov 1784, christened 29 Nov 1784, father Michael and mother Elisabeth. Plus there is a marriage for Michael Courcher to Elizabeth Mason 18 Sep 1775, St Leonards Shoreditch.

One search also threw up a new lot of new spellings: KERSHA, KIRSHA, KERSHAY, KIRSHEY, CARSHAY. Searches for Daniel's marriage under any of these or others that have been suggested on this board still have not produced anything. I've not had any luck following Jane RUFFY either. Their eldest daughter Jane is 9 years older than the next which made me wonder whether she may be a step-daughter and the marriage was later than first thought but searches on that theory haven't produced anything either.

I'm hoping to visit London next week and will probably target the London Metropolitan Archives as my next plan of attack

"However I may have found a possible birth now for Daniel snr on IGI. There is a Daniel Courcher born 22 Nov 1822 and christened 9 Sep 1823 at St Leonards, Shoreditch, father John and mother Ann. Also found John Coursha born 7 Nov 1784, christened 29 Nov 1784, father Michael and mother Elisabeth. Plus there is a marriage for Michael Courcher to Elizabeth Mason 18 Sep 1775, St Leonards Shoreditch."

This is interesting info. It has several things going for it and nothing in particular to the contrary. It might be helpful to know more about other siblings in each generation.

"One search also threw up a new lot of new spellings: KERSHA, KIRSHA, KERSHAY, KIRSHEY, CARSHAY. Searches for Daniel's marriage under any of these or others that have been suggested on this board still have not produced anything."

The variety of names found when searching the LDS archives with the Soundex are only names that they have classified as having the same sound. That is the only criteria. No linguistic derivation or familial relationship of any kind is implied. Unless you can find strong circumstantial evidence like date & location, they are probably irrelevant. Also look at the variations you have found in this research. Has their Soundex managed to group them together? Hardly. So while it is important to keep an open mind as to what the next spelling variation might be, it is best to do that once the relevant locations of your ancestors have been specified to the greatest degree possible.

My investigation of RUFFY did not go far or make any discoveries. Not much luck with spelling variations here. So remember that the LDS IGI listings on the internet are sometimes only partial based on time and location, not all their films have been transcribed. A nearby town or the previous century may have been omitted from the other IGI listings we see presented and such omissions can be difficult to recognize. Far better to take a more direct route to the source, when that path is available.

'It might be helpful to know more about other siblings in each generation.'

I visited LMA last week and found a few possible siblings. Unfortunately I didn't have enough time to check all possible dates so I have filled in a few gaps from others I found on IGI. I made the mistake of looking for Daniel's marriage in a couple of places. The entry for Daniel's birth is listed on IGI as COURCHER but I thought that I looke more like COURCHEE in the register. These are possible siblings.
Eliza COURCHEE b.24 Jun 1819; chr.19 Jul 1819 St Leonards, Shoreditch (IGI)
Elizabeth Caroline COUCHA b.23 Feb 1821; chr.27 Mar 1821 St Leonards, Shoreditch (abode Hare St: father's ocupation=weaver)
Daniel COURCHEE b.22 Nov 1822; chr.9 Mar 1823 St Leonards, Shoreditch (abode Holywell Lane: father's occupation=weaver) ('Courcher' in IGI)
Edward COURCHEE b.1 Feb 1827; chr.7 Apr 1828 St Leonards, Shoreditch (IGI)
all born to parents John and Ann COURCHEE/COUCHA, probably Ann CHANT married 13 Jul 1818 st Dunstan, Stepney.

I separated them from the John and Ann CUSHWAY because they had at least 2 children born within a month of each other and christened at St Leonards so I reckoned that the vicar knew the difference between the families. I've not got a marriage for this pair though. Their children are
John CUSHWAY b.11 Aug 1817; chr.1 Sep 1817 St Leonards, Shoreditch (abode Georges Square: father's occupation=weaver)
*James CUSHWAY b.26 Jul 1819; chr.16 Aug 1819 St Leonards, Shoreditch
*Mary Ann CUSHWAY b.13 Dec 1822; chr.30 May 1825 St Leonards, Shoreditch
John CUSHWAY b.6 May 1825; chr.30 May 1825 St Leonards, Shoreditch
Joseph CUSHWAY b.7 Apr 1834; chr.5 May 1834 St Leonards, Shoreditch

All these births intermingle with those of William COURCHA and Harriet (SIMS) and the spellings vary for them in the same way as the first set, I think according to the vicar/curate who took the sevice, although I stopped recording this, i.e. COURCHEE/COUCHA/COURCHA.

I also have a probable birth, siblings and parents for John (Daniel's father(?))
Michael COURCHER married Elizabeth MASON 18 Sep 1775 St Leonards, Shoreditch
Their children were (all from IGI)
Sarah Ann COURCHEE b.14 May 1779; chr.13 June 1779 St Leonards, Shoreditch
John COURSHA b.7 Nov 1784; chr.29 Nov 1784 St Leonards, Shoreditch
James COURSHEE b.30 Jun 1787; chr.22 Jul 1787 St Leonards, Shoreditch
Sarah COURSHEE b.8 Aug 1792; chr.2 Sep 1792 St Leonards, Shoreditch

The only other possible reference to a Michael COURCHER (and variants) I have found in any searches is
Michel COURCHE b.5 Jun 1752; chr.28 June 1752 La Patente French Huguenot, Spitalfields to Jean COURCHE and Marianne AUDRY.
Possibly Anne COURCHE b.1 May 1754; chr.19 May 1754 La Patente French Huguenot, Spitalfields to Jean COURCHE and Marie Ann GAUDRI is his sister.