United Kingdom Police - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

A possible Police relative?

sarahlouiselennon — 2013-02-05 21:51:57Z

DOes anyone know how I can find out if my 3x Great Granddad was in the Police or not?

There's a myth in the family that he was in the Police in Wales, 1834-1868 but when he came over to Stockton-On-Tees, Middlesbrough he was no longer allowed due to not speaking English. I'd be ever so thankful if anyone can help me find out the truth. His name was Evan Thomas from Llantrisant.

There's also a story that a Thomas relative caught a Phillips relative shoving a dead body into a bin. (Evan's daughter Emily married George Phillips) I do have a picture of Evan's Grandson in a Police/Army uniform during WW2, myth or truth?

Please, please say someone can help me.
Thanks.

Is this a police uniform?

pipster1969 — 2013-02-03 17:51:28Z

This is my great grandfather in what I thought was a security guard's uniform (I'm guessing 1930s-40s). He served in the First World War which explains the medal ribbon but it's been suggested he might be wearing a police uniform! Can anybody help please?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63709042@N07/8438345972/in/set-...

Re: Robert Beattie

JeffH01 — 2012-05-17 15:32:24Z

You say, "In the 1851 census he is a Police Officer and that would seem to be consistent with his moving around."

I strongly disagree, there was and is no National Police Force in the UK, with individual police forces (formerly known as Constabularies) being broadly county based.

Moving around like you have described is more akin to the movements of a soldier and with mention of the Isle of Wight I would suggest possibly the Royal Garrison Artillery and then became a policeman after being discharged.

Genealogy isn't about guess work, you can use BMD and census records to build an outline, but you MUST obtain copies of birth records to confirm the father's occupation.

Finally you quote an email address yet state you are using a shared account. You don't need a subscription to post a message and receive replies on Ancestry's message boards.

Don't log in with the "shared account" (take care you don't get the account suspended by openly admitting that you used it) just go to Ancestry's web site and register as a user, if you can't do that try to reply to a message and you will be taken to a registration screen; it's free.

I've been replying to people for years without subscribing but by just being a registered user.

Jeff

Robert Beattie

kathyinottawa — 2012-05-09 21:02:32Z

I'm trying to find police records on Robert Beattie. He was born in Scotland about 1810 (according to census -- I can't find him in Scotland's People at all), and married Mary Anne Moffitt there around 1836. Their children were born Samuel 1838 in Scotland; Robert 1840 in Ireland; Eliza 1843 on the Isle of Wight; Emily, William and Arthur 1849-1853 in Gt Hallingbuty, Essex; and Arthur 1857 in Mountnessing, Essex. In the 1851 census he is a Police Officer and that would seem to be consistent with his moving around. There is a FreeBMD death record, perhaps for him, in 1858 in Witham, Essex which is consistent with his not being in the census after 1851. Mary Anne may have died in Chelmsford in 1816. Would like to know how to find out about his movements in the Police Force. Any advice welcome. Please reply to maryvb@magma.ca as this is a shared Ancestry account.

Re: Police Service Records

Champlain9 — 2012-02-19 15:16:55Z

http://www.policerollofhonour.org.uk/about_us/contact.htm

regards

Re: Police Service Records

VTomlinson156 — 2012-01-06 16:30:10Z

Thank you!

Re: Police Service Records

halpark — 2012-01-06 16:05:25Z

Google (great believer in that, can play around with words!) "North Yorkshire police service records". Eighth link down looks as though it is what you want.

Re: Police Service Records

VTomlinson156 — 2012-01-06 14:29:20Z

Sent once and never received a reply - will try again though!!

Re: Police Service Records

halpark — 2012-01-05 23:24:22Z

Of course the administrative structure in 1881 could have been very different from now but why not google North Yorkshire Police (there are three police authorities in Yorkshire) and write and ask who holds the archives from that time?

Police Service Records

VTomlinson156 — 2012-01-04 19:51:15Z

My ancestor, Robert Orr b Ireland 1856 is shown as a Police Constable, Nth Riding of Yorks in 1881. He and his wife are living in Scool House Cottages, Sand Hutton. By the time of the next census in 1891 he has moved to Liverpool and is no longer a policeman. Is there anywhere that will hold a service record for Robert which will tell me the date he joined the force and the date he left (and the reason why)?

Police in Brecon and London

guybrushthreepwood — 2011-10-11 12:45:43Z

In the 1861 census Thomas FARMER, who was a Saddler by trade, suddenly appears listed as a Police Constable in Crickhowell. In 1865 he emigrates to Australia as a Saddler so he can't have been a Police Constable for long. Does anyone know how i might find out more about his time as a Constable?
Thomas's brother, Benjamin FARMER b.1848, also a Saddler, moved to London in the late 1860s and in the 1871 census he is also listed as a Police Man living on Templar Road, Hackney. His wife dies in 1872 and Benjamin returns to Brecon to be a Saddler again. Again how can i find out more about his time as a Police Man?
It seems funny that they both became Policemen in different parts of the UK for such short times - are there links between the forces?
I also find that another brother, John FARMER, is living in London at the time of Benjamin's death in 1879, this time on Temple Street. As he doesn't list his occupation on Benjamin's death certificate i don't know what he is doing there, but i wonder if he too joined up.
Any help is greatly appreciated

Re: Policemen serving in Birmingham 1938

Champlain9 — 2011-07-31 13:26:45Z

Try the contact on this page?
http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/

Regards

Re: Police family member

halpark — 2011-01-15 20:50:22Z

Police forces in the UK are local. You will have to know which force he belonged to.

Police family member

sultanatania5 — 2010-10-10 13:18:16Z

I am searcching for a family member who is believed to have been a policeman in England. Does anyone know how I can find a record of UK police who were on the force from approx 1969 to date.

Any ideas or information would be grateful.

Re: Scotland Yard

JeffH01 — 2010-03-22 22:54:23Z

1] What was the origination of Scotland Yard?

The name of the police headquarters came from the name of the area of Great Scotland Yard that 4 Whitehall Place [original police HQ’s address] backed onto. As can be seen from on the sketch map [plate 92] accessed from the british-history link at 2, there were two parts of the original Scotland Yard and there was also a Scotland Dock. Although Wikipedia states “the origins of the name Great Scotland Yard are unknown”, it would appear that the Great Scotland Yard was formed from the two smaller sections during later rebuilding works, it’s those yards and the dock that the origins of the name are unknown.
The London Metropolitan Archives will have more maps and perhaps other documents of interest to you, although you may need to employ a researcher to help you. See http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Lei...

2] who of the royal employees would have been granted lodgings there as a part of his employment perks?

From looking at the list of names and also the names on individual premises, it’s possible that not all the earliest tenants were Royal employees, but they would have been tenants in property that was on Royal land, the properties’ land then subject of a sub-lease from the builder/owner of the buildings who held the main lease. You’ll find a list of some of people or their positions within the Royal Household, employment or Civil positions listed on the map.

If you believe you had a relative who lived in a royal owned house or was a member of the Royal Household, there may be a record in the Royal Archives, see http://www.royal.gov.uk/The%20Royal%20Collection%20and%20oth... > Frequently Asked Questions

You’ll find a history of Whitehall Place and Scotland Yard starting at http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=68131 there’s some information on the earliest tenants and much more. Starting at the 68331 page with a general description and an excellent sketch of the whole area c1670 [plate 92], the next page describes Nos 1 & 2 Whitehall Place, followed by a page associated with Nos 3 to 8 and finally with a page describing the area of “Scotland Yard” itself; there are a number of smaller sketch maps too. Note the when looking at the foot notes [click fn. #] references to P.R.O. [Public Records Office] are now TNA [The National Archives].

3] Are any of these old buildings still a part of the Scotland Yard complex?

No, most of the buildings that surrounded the areas of Scotland Yards shown in the c1670 map were demolished before the newer Whitehall Place was built, all described in the text link at 1. The original Police HQ was moved from Whitehall Place to the Victoria Embankment in 1890 and moved again in 1960 but the 1890 buildings are still used by the police. For more history see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotland_Yard

Hope that's of help, Jeff

Scotland Yard

brendamason5259 — 2010-03-20 22:12:03Z

Today we associate Scotland Yard with law enforcement, however, I've read that Sir Christopher Wren had lodgings in Scotland Yard from the mid-1600s until his retirement as Superintendent of Works. My questions arising from this are:

What was the origination of Scotland Yard, and who of the royal employees would have been granted lodgings there as a part of his employment perks? (I've googled "Scotland Yard" but only get information on present day SY.)

Are any of these old buildings still a part of the Scotland Yard complex?

Any answers or reference direction anyone can provide would be VERY helpful.

Thank you,
Brenda Austin Mason
Austin, TX

Re: Police constables

pam_bauwens — 2009-07-23 03:49:04Z

hi--- thank you so very much for your help, l am pleased to say that l have been able to receive a copy of Reubon Bodfishs' police record, l did not have the same luck regard Herbert Noon who was a "special constable" a lot of these records have disappeared over the year. thanks again--pam

Re: Yorkshire Police

pazbhan1 — 2009-07-22 17:38:43Z

Dear Jeff

Thanks for your reply. Will have a look on those sites. Thanks for your help.

Maggie

Re: Police constables

JeffH01 — 2009-07-22 13:55:15Z

Records of the Metropolitan Police, including records containing key information about officers, like an alphabetical register of joiners that gives the officers Warrant number, as well as other records, are help at the National Archives, Kew. See the leaflet at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/rdleaflet.asp?s... .

As you will see the leaflet also refers to records at the Metropolitan Police Archives who hold some incomplete records of the Divisions [districts of policing]. I remember years ago the Local “Bobby” lived in a police house in the area they patrolled, but others lived in houses that were owned or paid for the Police Service, through an officers “housing allowance”. I don’t know when the allowance started but it ended in fairly recent years.

Unless a officer was dismissed for misconduct, he would have received a Police pension, the present retirement age is around 55, but most people ignore the fact that a much a larger proportion of a policeman’s pay is deducted for his pension than the general workforce would have stopped for their Company’s pension scheme.

Although this link at http://www.met.police.uk/history/records.htm repeats most information in the National Archives’ leaflet you may find the timeline and some other information of interest. You may also find more of interest and more importantly some guidance or help from The Friends Of the Metropolitan Police Historical Collection see http://www.fomphc.org.uk/viewpage.php?page_id=1

As no records are online, and if the “friends” web site can’t help with a contact, you may need to employ a researcher. I can’t recommend anyone but to find a list of specialists from the NA’s home page at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ , from the menu bar select “Research and learning” > Paying for research. Noting the cost of using the NA’s staff, click on Independent researchers, from the drop down menu select “Metropolitan [London] Police records” click “find researchers”.

In the list returned you’ll find many with web sites and almost all with email, spend time to check them all out and chose a few to obtain estimates from, most will cost plus copies but beware any that say plus travel, if they spend their days at the NA or in London the bulk of travel expenses should be included in their cost/hourly rate. If you go ahead set a cost limit they can’t go above without coming back to you.

Good luck

Re: Yorkshire Police

JeffH01 — 2009-07-22 12:33:35Z

Try the contacts on here - http://www.open.ac.uk/Arts/history/policing/police-archives-...

Yorkshire Police

pazbhan1 — 2009-07-21 21:46:59Z

I am looking for information about Alfred Walter Geary. In 1911 he was stationed in Barnsley and lived in Hoyland Common. How can I find out any more info about him and his police record?

Re: Uk Police records

annahendrick22 — 2009-04-07 00:52:30Z

thanks will let you know result

Re: Uk Police records

JeffH01 — 2009-04-06 22:20:25Z

Greenock was originally covered by the Renfrew & Bute Constabulary that became part of Renfrewshire Constabulary.

Looks like any records will be at Michell Library, Glasgow see http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/Library_Services/The_...

Scroll down to Refenfrewshire, also a contact at bottom of page.

Good Luck
Jeff

Re: Uk Police records

annahendrick22 — 2009-04-04 14:34:41Z

hi noticed your reply re Police. Would you know how to trace record for a Police Officer Greenock about 1890. Hope you get this anna hendrick

Re: Service records for Scottish Police forces

annahendrick22 — 2009-03-23 19:38:41Z

thanks will try tjay

Re: Service records for Scottish Police forces

Graeme_Savage — 2009-03-23 18:44:17Z

Not realy.

From the 1960's to 1975, Greenock was part of Renfrewshire and Bute Constabulary. Prior to the 1960's Greenock was 'policed' by Greenock Burgh Police.

I am not sure where the records are held for either the Constabulary or Burgh Police. The best bet would be to contact either the Mitchell Library or the local council archives.

If you need any further help, please let me know.

Re: Service records for Scottish Police forces

annahendrick22 — 2009-03-23 14:29:51Z

when you say glasgow would that include greenock thanks tj

UK police links and info

mi2early — 2009-03-19 20:59:30Z

Try these links for information about your police ancestors. Many of the sites have links to even more helpful sites.

Bibliography of British Police History: www.open.ac.uk/Arts/policebiblio/

City of London Police history: www.cityoflondon.police.uk/CityPolice/About/History/

Cleveland Police Force History: http://www.cleveland.police.uk/force_info/history.htm

Dorset Police Force History: http://www.dorset.police.uk/Default.aspx?page=415

Essex Police Museum: http://www.essex.police.uk/museum/

Fife Police Pictorial History: http://www.fife.police.uk/Default.aspx?page=1813

Friends of the Metropolitan Police Historical Collection: http://www.friendsofmethistory.co.uk/
and
http://www.fomphc.org.uk/viewpage.php?page_id=1

Greater Manchester Police: http://www.gmp.police.uk/mainsite/pages/history.htm

History of the Metropolitan Police (with book of remembrance): http://www.met.police.uk/history/

History of Surrey Police: http://www.surrey.police.uk/about/history.asp

History of Neath Police: http://www.south-wales.police.uk/fe/transfer.asp?id=401

History of policing in Ireland: http://www.psni.police.uk/index/about-us/about_museum

History of the Guernsey Police: http://www.guernsey.police.uk/ccm/cms-service/download/asset...

Lincolnshire Police History: http://www.lincs.police.uk/index.asp?locID=435&docID=-1

Metropolitan Police Staff records: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/familyhistory/guide/trade...

Metropolitan Police research guide: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?s...

Museum of Policing in Cheshire: http://www.museumofpolicingincheshire.org.uk/

North Yorkshire Police History: http://www.northyorkshire.police.uk/index.aspx?articleid=430

Nottinghamshire Police History: http://www.nottinghamshire.police.uk/about/history/

Police Roll of Honour: http://www.policememorial.org.uk

Police History Society. From Peel to modern day policing: www.policehistorysociety.co.uk/

Tayside Police History and Museum: http://www.tayside.police.uk/history.php

Thames Police History: http://www.thamespolicemuseum.org.uk/
UK Police Service website: www.police.uk

UK Police Service website: www.police.uk

Police Uniform Identification

waawh50 — 2009-02-28 20:27:00Z

Does anyone recognise this uniform, it looks to have a Police badge but I'm not sure, if this is English,Irish or somewhere else.

Re: Service records for Scottish Police forces

mowmal — 2009-02-01 00:41:10Z

Thank you Graham. I will follow up on this link and then let you know how I go on.
Regards;
Derek

Re: Service records for Scottish Police forces

Graeme_Savage — 2009-01-31 17:01:36Z

Hi Dereck

The wesite should read

www.mitchelllibrary.org

Sorry for any problems caused

Graeme Savage

Re: Service records for Scottish Police forces

Graeme_Savage — 2009-01-31 16:59:38Z

Hi Derek

The website for the Mitchell Library is

www.mitchelllibrary.co.uk

Once you are into the website, there is a link for 'Contact us'. If you click on this link, you will see the address, phone and fax numbers plus the facility to contact the Mitchell Library.

I hope this helps you.

Graeme Savage

Re: Service records for Scottish Police forces

mowmal — 2009-01-30 02:11:32Z

Hi Donald,
Thanks for that. Do you have to address enquiries to any specific dept. within the archives?
Regards;
Derek

Re: Service records for Scottish Police forces

mowmal — 2009-01-30 02:09:17Z

Hi Graeme,
I've just seen your post of April 2008 after Ancestry notified me of another post on the same topic. I don't know if I've missed their notification of your post or if they didn't notify me but in any case thanks for replying.
I haven't been doing a lot of research over the last 18months or so as I've been so busy but intend to take it up again from now on,as I've been able to ditch some committments.Do you still ahve contact info. for the Mitchell library please?
Regards;
Derek

Re: Service records for Scottish Police forces

donsinclair1 — 2009-01-29 14:49:09Z

Derek,

I am also on aquest, tracing my great granfather who retired from Edinburgh police in 1927, I got details from Edinburgh City archives

regards
Donald Sinclair

Policemen serving in Birmingham 1938

alan1vf8fff2t49brb9u0hds6mtjoo2rt — 2009-01-15 16:02:27Z

Hi
Trying to find my mothers friend Percy Newman which I Believe was stationed in Steelhouse lane, Birmingham

Re: Further Police related research

milford_lass — 2008-12-04 17:58:49Z

have you seen this Owen on the AIF

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-heroes/0-cat-index-hall-...

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-medals/australian_vc.htm

here is tom axford but not mine unfortunately

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-vc/axford-vc.htm

thank you for thinking of me

shirl

Re: Further Police related research

milford_lass — 2008-12-04 17:49:57Z

thank you so much owen, i had been informed a while ago that thomas george axford from my family had moved to australia from swansea were he opened up a shop after leaving milford, he did own the shop on the corner near the empire picture house, in the early 1900's, i wonder now if this is him hmmm. i will apply to the site you kindly gave to me for details on him

bless you
shirl

Re: Further Police related research

Orielbenfro — 2008-12-04 16:53:24Z

Shirley

If you have not looked already suggest you refer to the following page with reference to the Axford's
http://www.awm.gov.au/units/unit_11203.asp
I am currently looking at the Harrington brothers of the 16th Btn A.I.F. whose parents resided at Manorbier.

Police constables

pam_bauwens — 2008-11-15 04:46:34Z

my great-grandfather Reubon Bodfish was listed as a police constable in the 1881 census, and by 1901 he had retired at the age of 50----during this time he lived in Cheyne Walk Chelsea---would like to know if possible the area he policed and if anyone else is re-searching him. Or how l can find this information out for myself, bearing in mind that l live in Australia.

Re: Metropolitan Police

MargaretKing14 — 2008-11-12 16:51:56Z

Jeff,

I am very grateful for your reply, I will make the checks you have suggested.The service records have come from checks made by someone at The Metropolitan police history society so I suppose it is possible that there were 2 people of the same name although everything other than the inspector info matches up.

It is difficult for me to get to Kew but will try to get pension info from their website.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Margaret

Re: Metropolitan Police

JeffH01 — 2008-11-09 16:11:01Z

Today a police constable could only be “made up” to temporary sergeant, if he had passed the forces sergeants examination, and would not be able to take an inspectors exam’ until he’d spent time as a sergeant.

So either [1] the rules were different 100yrs ago, [2] you’ve got two different people, [3] there’s been a simple error in the census and on death certificate or [4] there’s another explanation.

[1] If you have his police service record, I would have thought it should state if promotion was temporary or if it was permanent but he was demoted. Contact the Metropolitan Police Museum and ask the question.

[2] Check the records at the National Archive for another officer with same name. Also check the Police Index on the Blacksheep web site at http://www.blacksheepindex.co.uk/ , he may have been named in a newspaper report – wont be much detail just rank and perhaps division and/or collar number.

[3] Least likely, but not as daft as it sounds. In both cases the informant may have simply stated he was a police officer but given no rank, then the Enumerator [census] and Registrar or his/her Clerk [death certificate] had assumed that meant Constable and wrote that in place of officer.

I don’t know if the record was his copy or you’ve obtained it from the National Archives, Kew, but there are other records that may help in the NA see http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?s...
If he was married did his wife receive a widows pension? There may be something in those records that may help clarify things.

Jeff

Re: Uk Police records

JeffH01 — 2008-11-09 15:01:40Z

It may be a bit late.

The National Register of Archives [NRA] lists records for Gloucestershire Constabulary in the Gloucestershire County Archives [Record Office] they include:

Gloucestershire Constabulary - GB/NNAF/C36446

NRA Ref NRA 34587 Glos Constabulary

1845-1984: recruitment and service records, station diaries and financial records, murder enquiry papers, photographs, general orders, note books of constable [description truncated]

NRA Ref NRA 3514 Glos RO misc
1937, 1955-59: notebooks of Chief Superintendent Harry Thomas

NRA Ref No NRA Ref
1839-1987: additional station diaries and other records

The Gloucestershire archives is at Clarence Row, Alvin Street, Gloucester, GL1 3DW
Google for web site.

Metropolitan Police

MargaretKing14 — 2008-11-08 15:08:05Z

My grandfather was in the Met.and, according to records was promoted to Inspector in July 1897. On the 1901 census and on his death cert. in 1914 he was listed as a Police Constable. I can find no sign of his being demoted for any reason and wonder if it is possible that he could have been made up to a TEMPORARY Inspector for the period of Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee.

Does anyone know if this happened?

I would be grateful for any help or ideas. Many thanks.

Re: Further Police related research

milford_lass — 2008-09-04 19:14:13Z

thank you so much for this information Owen bless you

shirley

Re: Further Police related research

Orielbenfro — 2008-09-03 14:15:43Z

Shirley
From my index of Pembroke St Mary Baptism Register for the period 1847 – 1895
24 Jan 1884 James to Rees & Mary Brinn of Orange Gardens a Police Officer baptized by W. Jones.
Rgds
Owen Vaughan
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

Re: Further Police related research

milford_lass — 2008-09-03 13:12:05Z

Dear Owen

I had been in touch with the police about information for a police officer serving in milford haven at the time of 1899, i have a inquest for my great uncle William Henery Axford who drowned in the haven and it was PC Brinn who took the rope from the fishing trawler on milford beach and pulled his body to the slip, may i have information about PC Brinn if you are able to give me any.

thank you
shirley

Further Police related research

Orielbenfro — 2008-09-03 11:42:48Z

With reference to the wide interest in the thread on Police related research. From my own Pembrokeshire related index’s the following surnames are of serving or retired police related events from circa 1837 to circa 1950.
Evans(2), Hart, Howells, Clarke, Wakerwall, Phillips, Davies(2), Jenkins, Henton, Haywood, Gedge, Herbert, Thomas, Brinn, George, Thomas, , Laugharne, Lewis, Veal, Coffey, Coffee, Forse, Preece, Mills, Morgan, Owens, Wheatley, Davies, Melhuish, Wharton (of Hertfordshire), Oxtimeier(railway police), Howells, Asparassa, Davies (of London), Williams (of London), William, Folland (of Glamorgan), Harries, Skyrme (of Leeds).
I have no information on service records only information where the profession is mentioned in relation to other events i.e. Bapt, Mrge, Burgess etc.
If I can assist let me know.
Rgds
Owen Vaughan
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname

Uk Police records

AnnetteGilroy — 2008-07-21 21:04:13Z

Hi, I'm trying to find out more about Miles Lane who was a police sargent in Tewkesbury, Gloucestershire according the cencus records. Does anybody have any advice where to look?

Police Forces in Forfarshire

RossCameron42 — 2008-06-17 21:48:27Z

I am researching the details of officers who served in Forfarshire Police/Angus Police up to 1930, and the constituent forces of Brechin, Kirriemuir, Montrose and Forfar Burghs on the formation of Angus County Police. I am also interested in the members of Arbroath Burgh Police, who amalgamated with the (then) new force of Angus Constabulary in 1949. I shall be delighted to hear from anyone who may have had these officers in their family tree, or who may be able to provide photographs of the men or their stations, and I hope to make my findings available to all interested parties. Your help will be greatly appreciated.