Genealogical Numbering System - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Cousins--numbering order

cookies9073 — 2013-03-18 08:06:15Z

Yes I clicked on that page and it came up "error". Is this page still available somewhere?

Numbering systems

Sharonsfamilytree — 2013-02-01 17:21:19Z

I'm fairly new to genealogical research. I have a bunch of stuff that I want to organize and be able to track, so I started looking at numbering systems. I think I have settled on a mix of Ahnentafel and Henry systems, but as I was numbering people, I came across a problem. I have twin nieces (my brother's children). So, I numbered them 1.31a and 1.31b (my brother is 1.3). Does this make sense?

Adding new data which is BEYOND an established numbering system?

dancooper1 — 2012-04-02 20:19:47Z

I adopted the D'Aboville (descending) system for my genealogy records and the system works okay for me. But it does cause me to wonder what will happen to all of this documentation if and when an ancestor is discovered who lived earlier than my currently known earliest ancestor. That is the objective, after all.

I am wondering what to do when additions are made to a generational numbering system based on (starting with) the earliest known ancestor, when even earlier generations are discovered.

I know I could simply adopt an ascending system, but that would only guarantee that my data would all be obsolete in less than one full generation, as children do seem to keep coming along.

Expanded Ahnentafel (Kekulé) Numbering System

LaMcKay124 — 2011-12-05 17:31:40Z

Quest for an adequate genealogical numbering system

A common genealogical numbering system is Ahnentafel, or Kekulé. It is straightforward enough, the proband, or primary person, being #1. His father is number #2, and his mother #3. Because we have four grandparents and eight great-grandparents, the numbers allocated to them are 4-7 and 8-15 respectively. Direct male descendants receive even numbers, whereas the women are given odd ones. Traditionally, the generations are listed as well, whereby generation I is usually that of the proband’s parents. We normally choose ourselves (or a child or grandchild) as the proband. One of the problems, however, is that the scheme only allows us to categorise our ancestors, meaning that siblings, cousins, in-laws, etc. fall by the wayside.

For that reason, German genealogists nowadays sometimes use an expanded Ahnentafel system which functions as follows:
When numbering direct ancestors, we keep to the traditional method. As the proband, though, I like my generation to be “I”. As Ralph Moore, I have chosen to call my tree “RM”, so my ID is therefore RM I1, or simply I1 or even 1. Since I have two younger brothers, I can optionally extend my ID to I1a. My brothers Sam and Ned are, according to the order of birth, I1b and I1c. I can also add my wife, Jackie Lowndes, to the tree, giving her the ID: I1aP (“P” stands for “Partner”). If I were to re-marry, I could choose suffixes to distinguish between my wives: P1, P2, etc. My wife’s parents can also be included as: IIa.PF and IIa.PM (the suffixes stand for “partner’s father” [F] and partner’s mother [M]. Note that because my wife’s parents are of another generation, the Roman numeral changes from my generation (I) to II. My father, Gerald Moore, is II2, and my mother, Maggie Crowe, II3. Now, my mother has two younger siblings, Fred and Patricia, which means that we add a small letter to the number. I13, my mother, now becomes II3a, so that her siblings can also receive person IDs: II3b and II3c. My maternal uncle Fred Crowe’s wife, Ann Hastings, can be given the combination II3b.P. Her parents are consequently: III3b.PF and IIIb.PM. We can tell from the Roman numeral “III” that my uncle Fred’s in-laws are of my grandparents’ generation. Fred and Ann have a daughter, Tamara Crowe. Because she is of my generation, and her ID is based on my mother’s and her siblings’, she becomes I3b.1. To take matters further, Tamara Crowe marries John Brown, and they in turn have two children: Bob and Geoff. However, because their generation is “below” mine, we give them the IDs -II3b.1.1 and -II3b.1.2. Geoff, for example, is the second child (hence: 1.2) of Tamara Crowe, who in turn is the eldest daughter of my mother’s eldest brother of two, Fred. Geoff’s wife is -II3b1.2P, and his eldest child would be given the ID: –III3b1.2.1. As you can see, we can apply this system to a very large number of close and distant relatives. Although we still unfortunately do not have a standardised universal numbering system, this method is a fairly adequate solution to the dilemma faced by anyone who wishes to distinguish between relatives within a large extended family or clan.

Source: Doris Reuter, “Welche Ziffer für den Urgroßvater?” in Ahnenforschung (2010), pp. 38ff.

Ru McKay (McKay-Coxon-Fisher-McMillan trees)

Re: Source/Citation Numbering System?

cacijo — 2011-10-01 20:41:11Z

Thanks for responding to my query about Source Citation Numbering. I could not believe my question was from 2005, 6 yrs ago! Pretty good that my ? still exists.

Sounds like you and I have similar family filing, numbering, etc.

Have fun with your sleuth work. It never gets tiring for me.

Cindy

Re: Source/Citation Numbering System?

dmccarg — 2011-10-01 17:00:43Z

I use the little-known alpha numbering for family members
because it does not require additions for families of more than 9 children, and it is a simple working system, once you
make the attempt to understand it. If you want details,
e-mail me back. For my files, I have vacillated somewhat,
like your other respondent, but I keep 4 alphabetical
series, one for family names, one for the various states and
places where I have connected with a respondent, a 3d
for just generic genealogical files, like the various
American Wars, the Palatine immigration, various sketches that I have written, my father's memoir, other persons whom
I have researched in connection with a family, etc., and lastly, a group of files "numbered" by the alpha code of
the earlier generations in my family.
My only problem is remembering which of these file sets I opted to place an item that I am suddenly looking for again, as there is some overlap.
My state & placename files were begun with merely corres-
pondence from someone at that place, and then I made a
file for "mysteries" involving a state, or just misc stuff
about one...my system was not well thought out in advance,
I've just created and added whatever I have, wherever it
seemed most likely to be found again, or created a new file
for a new bit of data...I'm not sure that I would just
recommend that you copy my system, since it is kind of imperfect, so I guess what I would say is that you should
create your own system, with an eye to finding what you want
when you want it. Correspondents, family names, and general
topics seem to be essential, my state files, probably...
Again, the Alpha System is fantastic as a "working"
numbering system, unlike the generally accepted Register/
Record numbering, which is never meant to be used until
your research is COMPLETE...which in my estimation is a
point in time that will NEVER be reached, even when you
are ready to publish, and when exactly is that?

Re: 1880 census

stormpoet76 — 2011-07-21 08:20:03Z

preciate the info thanks

Re: 1880 census

roncon60 — 2011-07-21 06:05:08Z

This link on the internet states 3/12 would be 3 months of 12: http://usa.ipums.org/usa/voliii/items1880.shtml
The Census of 1880

Go Back to Enumeration Forms Index

Schedule 1. Free Inhabitants in _________, in the County of ________, State of _________, enumerated by me, on the _____ day of ___________, 1880.

_____________________, Enumerator.
Enumeration district No. ___________.

In cities: Name of street; house number
1.Dwelling houses numbered in order of visitation.
2.Families numbered in order of visitation.
3.The name of every person whose place of abode on the 1st day of June, 1880, was in this family.

Personal description:
4.Color - White, W; black, B; Mulatto, Mu; Chinese, C; Indian, I.
5.Sex - Males (M), females (F)
6.Age at last birthday prior to June 1, 1880. If under 1 year, give months in fractions, thus, 3/12.
7.If born within the census year, give the month.
8.Relationship of each person to the head of this family - whether wife, son, daughter, servant, boarder, or other.

1880 census

stormpoet76 — 2011-07-20 11:33:47Z

in the column i believe its 7(it says something like age for the last birthday)

I have noticed that sometimes on a new born it will say something like 6/12

does that mean 5 day 12 month or 5th month 12th and i assume that means in 1880 also when a person dies
in 1880 how would they write that in or would they just omit them altogether?

Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem

CJHarding — 2011-05-02 19:39:53Z

Oh heavens, this post is still going! And I've only just noticed 4 years later!
I never thanked Swansonville for a very clear answer. I did follow your advice and found it easy to work around. It just took off after that. Since 2007 to date I have added several hundered to my tree. So far the Ahnentafel has managed to accomodate most of my relatives - and it really is very, very useful once you get past the hundred mark.
Thanks so much again Swansonville - 4 years late but better than never. :)
C.

Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem

broooski — 2011-05-02 19:25:23Z

Ah so! I knew I should've taken German back in college! Thanks

Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem

bgwiehle — 2011-05-01 21:25:28Z

Ahnentafel is a German word that means "ancestor table", i.e. a diagram that shows the ancestors of a particular person.
For more, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahnentafel
http://www.tamurajones.net/Ahnentafel.xhtml

Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem

broooski — 2011-05-01 19:45:01Z

Thanks for your explaing the use of some kind of genealogical numbering system. As for my last query, I meant what do the specific letters: "ahnentafel" mean? BH

Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem

bgwiehle — 2011-05-01 13:00:28Z

People use genealogical numbering systems for a variety of purposes:
- publication (reports with ancestor numbering or descendant numbering),
- organizing source documents & images with linkage to individuals or families,
- identifying individuals by lineage or relationship.

These are the main reasons, but there probably are others. Some systems are better-suited to a particular purpose than others.

Most genealogy programs automatically generate id numbers for individuals and in reports, but some users may want to use custom numbers that are more human-understandable or multi-purpose. That's why my previous post recommended review of existing systems with respect to the one's own needs.

Not sure what your mean by "those letters" - lafull1's post explained their numbering scheme, the other posts used mainly numbers.

Re: Ahnentafel Numbering system - problem with

broooski — 2011-04-27 21:54:12Z

Again I should've read more before sending out my previous somewhat uninformed query. I was a math major and am now a retired land surveyor, so numbers don't scare me, unless the IRS is involved! :>)) It's interesting to see how various people and groups have come up with different ways to identify the many genealogical relationships. Hopefully I won't need to resort to any kind of numbering system, although I'm already beginning to appreciate the view option that ancestry provides, you know, everyone in my family versus only my direct "blood relatives".

Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem

broooski — 2011-04-27 21:40:04Z

I'm very new to doing genealogical research on my family. Please, can anyone out there tell me why, in this day and age of computers, we need to use some kind of archaic numbering system like the Ahnentafel one? BTW, what do those letters actually mean?

Re: Combination of Letters/Numbers After A Surname

mcgavocksmith — 2011-03-12 19:58:54Z

Thank you for your explanations and your help!

Re: Combination of Letters/Numbers After A Surname

AGHatchett3rd — 2011-03-12 03:50:00Z

If you are seeing that in a Family Tree it is probably some numbering system the tree owner is using.

If you are seeing it on a document it would depend on what type of document and the jurisdiction of the issuing agency.

Re: Combination of Letters/Numbers After A Surname

mcgavocksmith — 2011-03-12 03:36:32Z

Thanks for responding . No, I'm referring to something like this after a surname......Smith...Bb-c6??

Do you know what it might mean if both parents and child have numbers like these following their names'?

Re: Combination of Letters/Numbers After A Surname

AGHatchett3rd — 2011-03-12 02:04:57Z

Are you talking about something like:

Albert Hatchett Sr.
Albert Hatchett Jr.
Albert Hatchett III
Albet Hatchett 3rd

and such?

They are post nominal suffixes to help distinguish one person from another.

Combination of Letters/Numbers After A Surname

mcgavocksmith — 2011-03-12 01:24:11Z

Someone, please tell me what meaning is to be understood by alphabetic letters' and numbers' following a Family Surname?

Re: Cousins--numbering order

ppasmith — 2010-12-14 16:59:45Z

I am a visual person as well- thank you for link to "what cousin am I' chart! LOVE IT
Pam

Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem

bgwiehle — 2010-11-15 19:50:40Z

I know it's been a few months since the last post to this thread, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents:
No numbering scheme is perfect - and there are a lot of variations out there. Search Google or Cyndi's List for ideas.
In the end, you'll probably adapt and modify some existing scheme (or create something new!) that meets YOUR needs. It may even undergo some evolution as you discover circumstances that need to be accommodated. Have a clear idea of why you want to assign a numbering scheme and what you want to be able to do with it.
Document your scheme somewhere, for yourself at least.

Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem

theailurophile — 2010-09-05 17:19:10Z

OY! This makes my head hurt. I'm just about to start numbering my extensive tree because I have so many ancestors with the same first names.
The problem I have is this: one side of my tree is very empty. haven't found much yet. Do I go ahead and assign numbers? To empty slots? Seems pretty cumbersome. AND I have been working on four branches at once.
I could use some advice.

Re: Sourcing and other questions...

LHSwisher — 2010-04-23 04:08:44Z

You might check this article by Richard Pence on genealogical numbering systems. There are several:
http://www.saintclair.org/numbers/

Sourcing and other questions...

sherita461972 — 2010-04-22 19:44:29Z

Hello, I am trying to organize all my information. Does anyone label their ancestors, (like they do books in a library) and their sources?

For example: John Doe (Doe001), then put on his death certificate, military records, marriage record, and anything else that is his Doe001

Re: Reference codes

PaulVernon22 — 2010-01-08 06:05:47Z

There are several "recognized" numbering systems. Which you use depends on where you are starting from as well as personal preference.

This may help you choose:

http://eogen.editme.com/NumberingSystems

Re: Cousins--numbering order

PaulVernon22 — 2010-01-08 05:40:22Z

I struggled with trying to understand the cousin/removal thing until I found that someone had drawn me a picture. What can I say? I'm a visual learner!

Here it is:
http://www.bifhsgo.ca/research_tools/relationship_chart%20-%...

Re: Numbering System - Frederick County, MD

BryanMehn — 2009-07-31 17:24:49Z

I know this is really really old but since I do a lot of my research in Frederick MD I'd thought I'd answer it in case it ever comes up again.

I have no idea what the numbers mean as I've never really looked into that. However,

"(Marks) Patented "Shettle" 1743 (POOMp245)"
Looks like it means someone named Marks patented something called a Shettle in 1743. The reference is POOMp245. There is an index telling what POOM stands for, and p245 is page 245 in that work.

"Shoemaker who left Co. by 1753 owing money (M&Cv1p108)"
This is basically the same, someone named Shoemaker left the company in 1753. M&C is a book Volume 1 and page 108.

The Martin books are a group of books that have indexed a number of people from a large number of books, newspapers and other sources. They only go through the mid 1800s, but will tell you where to look next. You really need to have the index of works to understand where you would look next.

I rarely use this work, at least right now, but I have found people and information that I wouldn't have found otherwise. The Maryland Room in the library has the entire set, as I'm sure does the FCHS. I don't know more about the history of the set of books, but the next time I'm there I can ask as I'm sure I'll be using them more in the future.

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

pedant900 — 2009-06-01 20:19:20Z

I still think that my post of nov 2008 on this thread covers the problem. If you want a more detailed explanation I can give one

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

zachsmom1297 — 2009-05-29 18:20:07Z

For the letter, maybe a quick abstract with to/from/date and who is discussed, and note your ahnenetafel numbers (or whatever system you use) on the abstract. Then paperclip it to the letter.

Or (and this is what I would do) transcribe the letter and highlight or bold the names, and then at the end of the transcription, index the names and put the Ahn. number next to them. Then print or copy your transcript and put a copy in the file for each person referenced (or the primary people referenced or discussed).

At the top of the transcription put the to/from and date/locations, and put the location where you have stored the letter. Put the original of the transcript in the file with the original of the letter.

????

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

texasaggieaunt — 2009-05-29 17:15:57Z

Certainly you are correct when it comes to Census Reports, but I have accumulated Certificates and Diplomas, framed pics from early 1800's, calling cards, letters, not to mention certified copies of births, etc. I don't see myself shredding these items.

I am eager to find a method to label, for example, a letter from person A to person B, discussing children C and relatives D and E. The link to a genealogy program is fine for the scanned copies, but how do I remind myself that the original letter is located in the safe, in a file with 25 other letters. How should I label the 26 letters? Do I write an abstract of the letter and index the facts somewhere? How?

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

zachsmom1297 — 2009-05-29 16:17:54Z

I think your paperless setup is great, and am working toward that but will still keep a paper backup. Partly because I like working with the paper copy and partly because am still in progress. Once I finish the update to the family history that I'm working on and have all the data documented, then I will get rid of my working copies of things because they will no longer be needed.

As more information is added online, paperless will be much easier to achieve. I prefer to look at documents on the computer because I can blow them up to where they are easier to see/read, but I still print a copy for the files, at least for now..

the last post was in reply to a followup question to my previous post - I thought it would quote that msg but I guess not. sorry for any confusion.

Lynne

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

zachsmom1297 — 2009-05-29 16:12:59Z

To qualify that a bit - if there are multiple people on one document (say two or three generations on one census page or a multi-generational photo), I make a photocopy for each envelope, and on the copy I note the location of the original photo. Not perfect but it keeps my original safe, and when I open a family envelope I have everything I need without having to chase around through a bunch of different places to find what I need.

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

vfairwoo — 2009-05-29 15:17:44Z

This suggestion may only help a few of you (or it may at least give some an idea).

I've gone paperless. If I had a paper copy of something I have shredded it (except books). Originals are kept in a safe place. Every document I have (yes even books) are scanned. I use Reunion for the Mac and when you enter a source there is a place for a "multimedia" entry and I link the source citation to the scanned file. (So I can open directly from the genealogy program). This saves duplicating items relevant to different people or dates. Also under each person and/or family card, there is a "multimedia" link and I put in pictures and the like. If your genealogy program doesn't do this (and they all really should) then possibly using FileMaker Pro or Bento would work. There'd be an entry for a person then a link to all documents for that person. Many of my documents have come from Ancestry.com so its easier to save to the computer than print. (Macs can print to PDF, not sure about PC).

On my computer I have a file for each of my 8 family lines (by great-grandparent). Then there is a folder for Death Certificates, Birth Certificates, Military Records, Marriage Certificates, Church, Books, Photos, Census and Misc. I save the files there with the name & year in the file name.

My computer is automatically backed up each hour. Weekly I do another back up offsite. A USB drive with all my info is in the safe deposit box.

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

pedant900 — 2008-11-01 16:44:12Z

The problem is the multiple references within individual documents (eg census sheets) developing a process used when I was working I suggest using either a database or Excel. Give ach document a unique number, usually sequential then set up a field for each individual/event/dates etc. use these as "tags" and you can then sort on several tags (or keywords) to give - for example - all references including fred smith or narrow to only census refs or letters. The snag is that it is a mammoth task to set up if you already have a lot of documents. However once set up it works beautifully. We did it in the 70s using punched cards for a library of technical papers. No gain without pain!

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

texasaggieaunt — 2008-10-02 16:01:21Z

You indicated that only marriage certificates are duplicated in your system. However, I have many photos of multiple generations/families (esp. Christmas and Anniversaries) and cannot get a handle on an effective numbering system for the photos, letters, family stories and books. To make it more complicated, I have started sharing information with distant (in location) cousins. We want to combine our information, but avoid duplicating documents. Tips?

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

cteska — 2008-05-28 18:09:12Z

Hi,

thanks for your input! I'm sorry to say I've been busy lately that I haven't had a chance to really implement anything, but everyone's ideas are really helping!

Thanks,
Courtenay

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

zachsmom1297 — 2008-05-27 20:55:36Z

I think that the original question may have been answered, but thought I'd share another version. I read about the folders idea in a book by (I think) Sharon Debartolo Carmack but have spent too much time picking up paper from dropped folders at work to want to use that. Plus, it's too easy for things to get lost, and the system isn't portable. I also have a bit of ADD so I need a system that is easy to keep organized.

I use color coding only for the family trees - my family gets numbers written in raspberry-colored sharpie and my husband's gets green.

I have a binder for each tree with just the family tree (branch) charts, so I have the big picture for each tree.

For the documents associated with each family group, I use an envelope system tied to the Ahnentafel numbers. I use 9x12 envelopes so they fit in plastic magazine racks and can go on a shelf.

I put the Ahnentafel numbers of the couple (from the chart in the binder) and their names at the top front of the envelope, and a quick notation of the family (essentially a family chart) on the front of the envelope. I also put the Ahn. number for the descendant child by his/her name.

Then, everything associated with that couple and their children goes into the envelope. Everything from the date of the parents' marriage until their deaths or divorce, and everything for the children until they marry. The only thing that gets duplicated is the marriage certificate (one in the file with the bride's parents, one in with the groom's parents, and one with the new couple.

I note the Ahn. number (with my sharpie so I can see it) on each paper I put in the envelope. **I do NOT put original documents in the envelopes!!**

I annotate the paperwork that is in the envelope on the back side of the envelope, just in notes that make sense to me (1850 Census - St. Albans, etc.), so I don't have to open the envelope to see if I already have a document.

For siblings/other children, I use the same envelope numbering system, and put the word COLLATERAL on the envelope, with the generation (children, grandchildren, etc) if I have enough information about those family groups.

I may have to adjust this system at some point but it is working very well so far. For the most part, I'm able to keep sibling info in the main envelope. Because I'm also doing an update to my grandmother's family tree, I have a bunch of collateral line info for some familes. I just put all the collateral envelopes in a separate magazine holder and they're out of the way until I need them.

Back to the original question - I don't keep ANY original documents with my working papers. I don't want to have to worry about damaging anything as I rummage around in my working papers. I make a copy of the document and put the copy in the appropriate envelope. If it's something that I can't copy for whatever reason, I either type up a description or hand-write one, then put it in the envelope.

No problem to make more copies if need be - but usually the only thing that affects two families is a marriage certificate. For Census pages that have more than one household listed, I make a copy for each household and highlight/transcribe the information for that household and then put it in the envelope, that way I don't have to worry about information scattered around.

I keep original documents in a couple of safe places - either the trunk with all old the family scrapbooks or in a binder on the shelf with my local history books. I also scan as many as I can, so if something happens, there is another copy either online at Ancestry or with family members (or both).

Hope this makes sense and is of some help,

Lynne in MD

Re: Who's on first? Which generation gets top billing again?!

zachsmom1297 — 2008-05-27 20:12:59Z

Here are my two cents on this topic...

When you're researching from the known to the unknown, and are working your way up a direct line, it makes sense to start from the more recent end of things.

When working from the 'original' ancestor, and looking at the entire family or branches, (especially for publication), it makes sense to start with the farthest back and work forward, because you'll have numbers available for future additions and changes.

There isn't any right or wrong way. Use what works for you for the project you're working on. As long as you understand it, you can explain it to someone else.

That said, if you are going to publish an article or send information to an organization, you'll need to use their format for what you're sending, but really, that's no different than using a particular font or style for your personal documents vs using accepted/approved format for professional use.

I use the 'start with me' Ahnentafel (I think I spelled that right) for my family tree, so I can keep track of who's who. BUT I am also working on an update to the family genealogy and will be starting my numbering with the ancestor and working forward. This works well for me because it is not all the same information - the family genealogy is for my mothers/grandmother's family, and most of the rest of my personal genealogy doesn't apply.

Hope this makes sense and is of some help.

Lynne in MD

Who's on first? Which generation gets top billing again?!

congir — 2008-05-08 19:48:13Z

I keep seeing,and receiving reverse order ancestral lines. That is to say, the individual who is the final descendant is putting himself as a member the first generation and working in reverse rather than let's say the individual who arrived to North America in the 1600's. Are others seeing this trend?

Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem

lafull1 — 2007-12-18 23:18:46Z

OK, here is the trouble with the ahnentafel system. They did not plan for this to happen. The simple solution, just as when a marriage takes place, the bride usually takes the name of the groom. So too, then, the newly married couple takes the number system of the groom to continue with their children. The bride's number can be included, if desired, but for simple tracking, her name changed but not her number. That is her number. The children, are now born with the father's name and numbering system. The other solution is to include both numbers but it will have to indicate which line is which. That can be done by adding the first 3 initials of the last name to the number. For example: John Jones and Mary Price have numbers 4.8.2 and 5.2.4. You can do: JON4.8.2 and PRI5.2.4. In my vast lists of keeping numbers, one of our researchers uses a form of alpha-numeric code that takes the oldest person that can be documented, at least as of the first documented relative in the US. Take the first 3 initials of the last name, and being the first documented, he gets number 1. His kids, not the wife, get his initials and number 1, then they in turn get their number according to their birth order. So, what about the wife? She has her own system just like the husband, based on her family. So back to John Jones and Mary Price, John would be JON1 and his kids would be JON11, JON12, JON13. His grandkids would be JON111, JON112, JON121, JON122, JON131, JON132, if his 3 kids each had two kids. Works great to keep tabs on both where they fall in line and the order of births. Ah, ha, but what happens when you hit number 9 and need 10 or higher? Number 10 is A, 11 is B, all through the 26 letters of the alphabet. So after a long history, you may end up with a code like JON12114A2C6. At reunions its easy to pick out who you are related to by just looking at the code to see where they match up.

Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem

heartsstorm2002 — 2007-10-02 03:28:35Z

And I just Thought I was already Confused!!! Maye you can help me with something as well. I have 2 situations in my tree where 2 brothers maried 2 sisters so when i go down from the parnest of the sisters and put in their husbands and children and so forth all is good. then i go to the brothers that they married and start puting in all their info and guess what i now have all hte same people in the tree twice for both lines all the kids and everything will be doubled. I have worked around this for awhile now trying to figure out how to fix it and no luck. I cant seem to find anything anywhere explaining how to solve this. do I just leave it as doubles or is there some way i can show that they are the same people but in different lines otherthan jsut making the obvious notes about it? any help would be appreciated. Thank you

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

cteska — 2007-09-02 16:47:58Z

Thanks for sharing your system! I'm thinking about doing something similar. My only issue is I would still like to separate out some of the items between current branches of my family (maybe by each grandparent's surname/maiden name) so I can easily show family members the items that belong to their side of the family more easily. Of course this may be annoying to future family members who need to combine that info back together again if they wanted to use my system of filing (lets hope someone will be interested!). Maybe this is just as easily accomplished by looking up in the index by surname and flipping to the appropriate page in the binder. I really like the simplicity of your system. I'm wondering if there is an easy way for me to integrate the index data into my family tree maker program and/or a database so I can quickly pull up lists of exactly what I'm looking for. For example, using a database program I develop in Access or another program, I could label each item by binder & page number as you have done, but then also assign various "tags" to the data. ex. surnames, family tree maker id# of individuals, type of item (ex. book, marriage certificate, letter, etc.). I haven't really looked into how this might integrate with family tree maker. Maybe I wouldn't need it to because I could use the database to look up their name directly. The only other issue is if I could easily use a reference to my filing system in the sources/references section of each individual in the family tree maker program. Ok, hope I haven't rambled too much. It helped me straighten out my thoughts on how to go about this. You have been very helpful!

For storing large/defecate items like books do you have any info on properly storing and preserving them? From what I know of documents and photos they are best stored in specific types of polypropylene plastic sheets, but I don't really know about large old books/bibles, photo albums where the album itself is an heirloom (I don't really want to take all of the photos out of it, but maybe they would be preserved better!), old family watches, hair cuttings, and lots more. I know it's a rather large and diverse list, but I thought you might know where I can learn about preserving all of these things.

Thanks so much,
Courtenay

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

cteska — 2007-09-02 16:29:24Z

I like your idea, but I think it might be a little to complex for me. Do you think you might run into problems printing enough variation in the lighter and lighter shades for each generation? What if you find something about a generation much farther back, but don't really have anything for the generations in between? Could that lead to problems with knowing how many gradations of color to use? Have you had a chance to start your new system? I'd love to hear how it goes! I think I too may stay away from clooz as you suggested. It is more expensive than my genealogy program to begin with and I'm really dreading having to maintain 2 separate files of people!

Thanks!
Courtenay

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

AZHermit — 2007-09-02 04:22:32Z

I found color coding, subject headings, surnames etc., too confusing for filing ORIGINAL materials. I finally settled on numbering each ORIGINAL consecutively from 1 to infinity. I keep a MSWord index in my Genealogy folder on my computer with a separate page for each surname.
Every time I get a new source I add it to the index and file it in a plastic archival page protector and put it in the binder. The B1 first entry below is for binder number 1, page number 2. As I get more binders they will be B2, B3 etc. You can use any codes you are comfortable with. I can easily search this document using the Find command. Larger items like maps, books etc can be filed in a closet, file cabinet or safe, just use a location coed that makes sense and isn't duplicated. Once I have entered all information from the new source it is filed for safekeeping and I use copies for my working/research binder as needed. Simple and clean.

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

CdBolding — 2007-08-18 03:40:21Z

Third para. should read "Within each hanging file there will be one file folder FOR EACH DOCUMENT ITEM . . ."

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

CdBolding — 2007-08-18 03:35:18Z

Re color coding, here's what I'm planning. 4 colors represent each grandparent . . . 4 different family lines. The colors will of course be coordinated with the genealogy database/program, at least in terms of chart printing colors.

Using clear/vinyl hanging file folders with 4 available colors of the top hanger bar (these folders are available at Staples), each grandparent gets one hanging folder, one color. After a generation or so, an entire family will likely be grouped within each hanging folder as there won't be so much documentation.

Within each hanging file there will be one file folder, probably also clear vinyl to easily ID contents. Each folder will be colored the same color as the hanging file by printing the labels out in color. With each subsequent generation the color will be a lighter shade for easy visual reference and ordering (darker colors most recent, lighter shades for older, towards the back).

Shared document, such as a marriage cert., photos of children, etc. would only be slightly problematic for the starting generation . . . the grandparents, as each parent would be in separate hanging folders. For this generation only I might have a copy of the marriage cert. for each grandparent. However, for photos of the children I may just decide that one grandparent or the other gets to "keep the children," maybe with label colors from the other grandparent for easy visual cross reference. Subsequent generations shouldn't encounter this difficulty.

Anyhow, you probably get the picture. The colors keep it all visually organized and may also aid in cross referencing although hopefully this will be minimal.

If you see any flaws, please feel free point them out. I'm a fine one for missing the obvious. Hope to start setting this up in the next couple of weeks while I have some time. Will report back re practicality.

About Clooz ... personally I would stay away from it. Have tried to figure out their method myself and don't like it at all. As you point out, it requires doubled manual effort to keep track of everything. Also, similar/related documents are physically random in order although numbered according to the program's logic. Too much work and counter-intuitive.

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

cteska — 2007-08-17 20:56:37Z

Thanks for responding - I was beginning to think everyone else had their own system worked out and didn't bother to share it. Can you tell me more about how you plan to use the colour index file system? It sounds promising.

I was also beginning to look into a computer program called clooz that does filing by document type as well: http://www.clooz.com/features.html Difficulty with this is that I'd have to maintain double people records in 2 different programs. I'm currently using Family Tree Maker to store all of my data. I'm wondering if they have a feature like this in it at all. The basic difference between clooz and most programs is that clooz stores references to documents as individual objects. Then people are associated with those objects instead of the traditional way of just siting reference information for a particular piece of info on a person. Maybe the new family tree maker has thought of this. It would be nice to only maintain 1 program!

Re: How to number original documents, photos, books, etc.

CdBolding — 2007-08-17 17:50:54Z

Hi Courtenay,

Don't know if you're still monitoring this thread. It's too bad the participation on these forums re documentation and sourcing is so poor. I believe the interest is there, I think most people have trouble finding these sub-menu ancestry boards. I know I did. It's a shame, because the topics are very important. And you ask a good question.

Unfortunately I'm not really qualified to answer. Having said that, I am trying to sort out some of the same issues myself. Am just going from more or less disorganized to some kind of system. I can tell you that I given this a bit of thought and have decided against using binders. Too rigid and compartmentalized. As you point out some documents are shared. One could simply make duplicates.

Anyhow, to avoid this I've decided to go with a colour indexed file system tied to the four basic family lines.