Ahnentafel numbering problem
(I've posted this under "help" too as I'm not sure which thread to use - sorry) So..
I like, and am starting to use the Ahnentafel Genealogical Numbering System quite effectively now that my research is beginning to expand past my own limited memory banks however I’ve come to a bit of a problem with aunts and uncles.
Take a section of my family to see my problem - An Ahnentafel pattern is:
No. 1. Myself 2. John C. (my father) 3. Avril (my mother) 4. Harold (my father’s father) 5. Edna (my father’s mother) 6. Stanley (my mother’s father) 7. Violet (my mother’s mother) 8. John (my grandfather’s father)
Now, No. 8 - John - has 7 sons whom I have labelled/numbered 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, 8.4, 8.5, 8.6, 8.7 respectively and chronologically, oldest first. Fine so far but…
…8.7 is Harold – my number 4 on the Ahentafel. Do I number him 4 or 8.7 ?
Likewise with No. 2 - John C. - He’s Harold’s first son (of 4 kids) so should I number him 8.7.1 or 4.1?
At the moment I’ve given each two numbers. I seem to think I’m messing up two systems here. Can some one help me out?
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Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem
All children have half the number of their father, so Harold and his brothers and sister start with the number 4. Your direct ancestor, Harold, gets 4 only. The brothers and sisters add .1, .2, .3 to the four depending on their birth order. If Harold is the first born child, you would skip 4.1, and the second child would be 4.2. If Harold had been the third child, the 4.3 would be skipped. By number this way we know that any person with a 4, 4.1, 4.2 etc, is the child of #8, father, and #9, mother.
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Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem
And I just Thought I was already Confused!!! Maye you can help me with something as well. I have 2 situations in my tree where 2 brothers maried 2 sisters so when i go down from the parnest of the sisters and put in their husbands and children and so forth all is good. then i go to the brothers that they married and start puting in all their info and guess what i now have all hte same people in the tree twice for both lines all the kids and everything will be doubled. I have worked around this for awhile now trying to figure out how to fix it and no luck. I cant seem to find anything anywhere explaining how to solve this. do I just leave it as doubles or is there some way i can show that they are the same people but in different lines otherthan jsut making the obvious notes about it? any help would be appreciated. Thank you
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Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem
OK, here is the trouble with the ahnentafel system. They did not plan for this to happen. The simple solution, just as when a marriage takes place, the bride usually takes the name of the groom. So too, then, the newly married couple takes the number system of the groom to continue with their children. The bride's number can be included, if desired, but for simple tracking, her name changed but not her number. That is her number. The children, are now born with the father's name and numbering system. The other solution is to include both numbers but it will have to indicate which line is which. That can be done by adding the first 3 initials of the last name to the number. For example: John Jones and Mary Price have numbers 4.8.2 and 5.2.4. You can do: JON4.8.2 and PRI5.2.4. In my vast lists of keeping numbers, one of our researchers uses a form of alpha-numeric code that takes the oldest person that can be documented, at least as of the first documented relative in the US. Take the first 3 initials of the last name, and being the first documented, he gets number 1. His kids, not the wife, get his initials and number 1, then they in turn get their number according to their birth order. So, what about the wife? She has her own system just like the husband, based on her family. So back to John Jones and Mary Price, John would be JON1 and his kids would be JON11, JON12, JON13. His grandkids would be JON111, JON112, JON121, JON122, JON131, JON132, if his 3 kids each had two kids. Works great to keep tabs on both where they fall in line and the order of births. Ah, ha, but what happens when you hit number 9 and need 10 or higher? Number 10 is A, 11 is B, all through the 26 letters of the alphabet. So after a long history, you may end up with a code like JON12114A2C6. At reunions its easy to pick out who you are related to by just looking at the code to see where they match up.
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Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem
OY! This makes my head hurt. I'm just about to start numbering my extensive tree because I have so many ancestors with the same first names. The problem I have is this: one side of my tree is very empty. haven't found much yet. Do I go ahead and assign numbers? To empty slots? Seems pretty cumbersome. AND I have been working on four branches at once. I could use some advice.
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Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem
I know it's been a few months since the last post to this thread, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents: No numbering scheme is perfect - and there are a lot of variations out there. Search Google or Cyndi's List for ideas. In the end, you'll probably adapt and modify some existing scheme (or create something new!) that meets YOUR needs. It may even undergo some evolution as you discover circumstances that need to be accommodated. Have a clear idea of why you want to assign a numbering scheme and what you want to be able to do with it. Document your scheme somewhere, for yourself at least.
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Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem
I'm very new to doing genealogical research on my family. Please, can anyone out there tell me why, in this day and age of computers, we need to use some kind of archaic numbering system like the Ahnentafel one? BTW, what do those letters actually mean?
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Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem
People use genealogical numbering systems for a variety of purposes: - publication (reports with ancestor numbering or descendant numbering), - organizing source documents & images with linkage to individuals or families, - identifying individuals by lineage or relationship.
These are the main reasons, but there probably are others. Some systems are better-suited to a particular purpose than others.
Most genealogy programs automatically generate id numbers for individuals and in reports, but some users may want to use custom numbers that are more human-understandable or multi-purpose. That's why my previous post recommended review of existing systems with respect to the one's own needs.
Not sure what your mean by "those letters" - lafull1's post explained their numbering scheme, the other posts used mainly numbers.
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Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem
Thanks for your explaing the use of some kind of genealogical numbering system. As for my last query, I meant what do the specific letters: "ahnentafel" mean? BH
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Re: Ahnentafel numbering problem
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