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Germans residing in Russia in 1880s?

Germans residing in Russia in 1880s?

Posted: 27 Feb 2014 12:59AM GMT
Classification: Immigration
Surnames: Wichert, Wickert
I have found the ship records for my GGparents, Germans who came to America in 1885 (Michael Wickert) and 1886, his wife and child. He is noted as residing in Rypin, Russland and she resided in Radczuk, Russland according to her ship records. I found a little bit about Rypin - that it was actually Poland in 1885 but did not find much else. Anyone have any insights about these locations and why Germans might have emigrated there at some point, perhaps they were industrial areas? Michael was a machinist at a rail road shop when he came to Albany NY. Thank you so much

Re: Germans residing in Russia in 1880s?

Posted: 27 Feb 2014 3:15PM GMT
Classification: Query
The Rypin region was part of Prussia prior to the 1815 Treaty of Paris which is why you would find Germans there. http//www.sggee.org is a society that serves Germans from the region and other parts of central Poland often referred to as Russian Poland.

There is a free mailing list there which you can join to ask questions about your region and family specifics.

I don't see many Wickert in our databases. Were they Catholic, Lutheran, Jewish? What other family names are connected?

Jerry Frank

Re: Germans residing in Russia in 1880s?

Posted: 5 Mar 2014 2:18PM GMT
Classification: Query
There was considerable settlement of Germans in Russia from the time of Catherine the Great who invited them mostly to attract skilled workers and tradesmen but also to settle and develop unpopulated areas.The Moscow suburb of Arbat is actually named because it was the area in which many German "arbeiters" (workers) settled - some of them had quite obviously done quite well if the architecture is anything to go by! There were also considerable settlements of Germans in what is now Ukraine - although most of them left after WW2. They were not popular with the Russians because many of them supported the Nazis. During the 19th century when Eastern Europe, including Poland, was divided up between the three great Empires, German, Russian and Austro-Hungarian, there was a fair bit of movement so a husband could be "German" and a wife "Russian" but both of them Polish, Jewish etc. A real mixed bag. Hope this helps a bit.

Re: Germans residing in Russia in 1880s?

Posted: 5 Mar 2014 4:16PM GMT
Classification: Query
Sorry halpark but I must dispute one historical comment in your response. There is absolutely no connection (other than similarity) between the name of Arbat street and the German word, arbeiter nor have I found any indication that Germans were living there. There is no doubt that German tradesmen, lawyers, doctors, and other professionals as well as nobility were living in Moscow and its suburbs, many of them there even before the time of Catherine's reign. If a legitimate claim can be made to a Germanic origin for the street / district name, I would like to read it and determine the veracity of its source.

One response (consistent with other historical commentary) to the supposed "German" connection can be found at http://www.russian-moscow.com/the-origin-of-the-name-arbat/ .

Otherwise the historical summary is accurate but sometimes people take a summary like that and apply it all to their family history. That is not necessarily the correct thing to do so I would also like to add this clarificaiton:

The region of Rypin was never, ever associated with Catherine the Great or her Manifesto. It was part of Prussia prior to the boundary changes of 1815. The ethnic Germans were already living there long before this change and became Russian nationals by default with the boundary changes. So if your historical roots track through Rypin, do not include Catherine as part of the story of the migration.

It is important to distinguish between nationalilty and ethnicity, Though ethnic mixing did occur on occasion, it was very unusual. Research shows that the vast majority of ethnic Germans in the Rypin region were Lutheran. Those ethnic Germans would be classified as Russian after 1815.

Jerry

Re: Germans residing in Russia in 1880s?

Posted: 5 Mar 2014 5:04PM GMT
Classification: Query
The poster put a very general question about Germans in Russia, I put a very general summary as a background. If he/she is interested they can obviously make a more detailed study with the help of experts. When I was staying in Moscow with a friend who is a Senior Researcher at the Russian Academy of Sciences with a Ph.D. in History, she told me origin of the name of the Arbat suburb. Until now I have seen no reason to argue with her, but perhaps your credentials are superior? The point I was making about being Russian. German or Austrian while still being Polish, Jewish or whatever was exactly to stress that ethnicity and nationality can be quite different but what exactly being German has to be with being Lutheran which is a religious denomination I cannot see. Many Germans were also Catholics. Like does attract to like anywhere, but I still think there was much more mixing than is usually allowed for. Just recently I surprised another academic friend when she told me the original spelling of her "Russian" married name. She is a Scottish psychiatrist who married an American Jew - maker of horror films - who was so convinced he was a "Russian" Jew he insisted on the sons being Dmitri and Sergei. When she told me the original spelling it was so East Prussian/Lithuanian it was almost funny - but she is not a linguist, good Brits rarely are.. I have another friend who is "Swedish", her father was but her mother was Sami. She married a "Greek" but his mother was Romanian. Her eldest daughter was born in England (British) but brought up in Greece, Greek speaking. the other two children were born in Greece (Greeks) but brought up in England - English speaking. The English speaking Greek daughter went back to Greece and married a Greek - the eldest daughter, Greek speaking English, married a man who was half Chinese and half Irish Catholic. I feel it is best to keep an open mind!
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