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Help with Identifying Family Crest/Coat of Arms on Sword

Help with Identifying Family Crest/Coat of Arms on Sword

Posted: 20 Mar 2015 4:52PM GMT
Classification: Query
Would greatly appreciate any help identifying this family crest/coat of arms. It is printed on a sword believed to be fabricated in the 1880s. It might be French, but not sure. My father-in-law purchased the sword at an antique market in Istanbul in the 1950s, so neither he nor I have a family connection to the sword, just trying to identify where it might have come from.

Thanks much!
-Nina
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Re: Help with Identifying Family Crest/Coat of Arms on Sword

Posted: 26 Mar 2015 2:49AM GMT
Classification: Query
I put the words I saw on the sword into Google and asked for a translation:

en souvenir de mon sejour a constantine = in memory of my stay in Constantine
in 1884

Someone may correct me, or may supply more technical jargon, however, the "arms" displayed, look like some generic artistic rendition, but not actual arms. I don't think they would actually display a shield on top of a quartered shield on top of another quartered shield for a true rendition of Heraldic Arms. I did a google search for the photos and did not find any matches to the images.


I suspect that your father purchased a lovely souvenir. If it is from the 1880s it would be an antique. If it is from the 1950s, it has til at least 2025 before it becomes an antique.

Re: Help with Identifying Family Crest/Coat of Arms on Sword

Posted: 27 Mar 2015 5:16PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi. Thanks so much for your input. I am inclined to agree with you that the arms might be just an artistic representation rather than that of an actual coat granted by a monarch. Like you noted, the mix of different shapes and symbols--the different shield shapes, etc.--confused me as to what country it came from much less which individual owned it. My father in law was told by the salesman in Istanbul when he bought it that the arms and monogram were definitely added to the sword later by an an artisan in Turkey. So maybe those engravings were just "pretend" or nostalgic, meant to be a souvenir, rather than authentic.

Thanks again...
-Nina Cois

Re: Help with Identifying Family Crest/Coat of Arms on Sword

Posted: 17 Apr 2015 7:59AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 5 Jun 2015 1:10AM GMT
The arms engraved on the basket hilt of that sword appear to be genuine.

The armorial achievement (the whole shebang) depicts the main arms in the background, with initially, an 'escutcheon of pretence', which itself also bears an 'escutcheon of pretence'.

An 'escutcheon of pretence' depicts the marshalling of arms of two (or more) armigerous families meaning that the larger of the two 'escutcheons of pretence' are the arms of an armigerous wife who is an heraldic heiress.

It would appear that her arms (or actually, those of her father who is still alive) also bear an 'escutcheon of pretence' of the wife's father's wife, who is also an heraldic heiress. An heraldic heiress is a woman who is expecting to inherit her father's arms when he dies as she has no brothers who would have priority in inheriting arms.

The marshalling of arms is a decidedly complicated subject as it is the method of depicting family alliances (bloodlines) by marriage. The rules governing the marshalling of arms can vary from one country to another and because of that, it is always a difficult endeavour to trace bloodlines accurately.

As for the actual arms themselves, I'm afraid that I do not have the wherewithal to enable me to identify them precisely. That said, from the actual depiction of the arms I suspect that they are what are known as 'Continental European Arms' which would be decidedly difficult to identify successfully.

The coronet/crown shown in the first image is of either Germanic or Russian origin.

As an aside, that armorial achievement actually depicts the bloodlines of at least six armigerous families.
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Re: Help with Identifying Family Crest/Coat of Arms on Sword

Posted: 19 May 2015 10:37AM GMT
Classification: Query
Does it have a readable hallmark on it? If you're lucky, and the hilt is silver, you might be able to find out the date and place of an assay office. Not always the same as manufacture though.
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