Search for content in message boards

Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Fred Kindel (View posts)
Posted: 30 Jul 2006 11:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
Often in early local records (e.g., county court minutes of 1800 +/-, etc.) will be found reference to John Doe Sr and John Doe Jr. Many researchers take this to mean that this signifies a father and son. But, I have also been informed, but can't remember where, that this is not necessarily true. That often in localities where there were two persons named John Doe, that they were not related; they were simply "nicknamed" Sr and Jr signifying which was elder and which was younger, in order for people at the time to be sure which person was being noted. Are there readers of this query who agree with the second meaning? Does anyone have a source or sources in which this second meaning has been documented? Thanks for your help. -- Fred

Re: Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Norm (View posts)
Posted: 30 Sep 2006 5:42AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello: I have never heard of this, but did a google search and found another reseacher who claimed the same thing: ie that the Jr and Sr designations could be used by local officials to differentiate two unrelated men in the same locality. The posting was done in 2003, so I doubt the email address would be current to try to find out where the researcher got their information, but at least there is another occurence of the story. Also, I found interesting info about how to decide whether to call someone John Smith JR or John Smith II (use Jr only if dealing with a father and son with the same name, and use II if it is the second person in the family with the same name, but not a father and son - perhaps a boy named after his great grandfather) and about John Smith Jr becoming John Smith Sr after the birth of his son and the death of his father. A confusing tradition!!!

Best wishes

Norm Dawson
CAlgary AB

Re: Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Posted: 27 Nov 2006 2:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: DONINI'S FLORIST AND NURSERY / 42 YRS IN THE BIZ
JUST THOUGHT I WOULD LET YOU KNOW I ENJOYED YOUR STORY. KEEP UPTHE GOOD WORK.. THANKS

Re: Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Posted: 7 Feb 2007 5:22AM GMT
Classification: Query
I have a question that maybe someone could answer ... If you have a family name where the first, middle, and last name are all the same ie. (A.A.Smith Sr., A.A.Smith Jr., and A.A. Smith III) and then A.A.Smith III names their child A."B".Smith, would that child be considered the IV? I think that the child would start a new lineage, but I wanted someone elses opinion or their facts if they had them. Thank you for your help with this.

Re: Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Posted: 19 Aug 2007 4:10AM GMT
Classification: Query
The change in the given names from "AA Smith" to "AB Smith" would mean that person starts a new line. of I-II-III, etc. The full name has to be exactly the same to continue the line of numbers.
Also on the topic, the use of Jr. and Sr. in public records is really unfortunate because those terms are really only used during the lifetime of the individuals concerned.
But public records obviously are meant to define identity for many years to come. When "AA Smith Sr" dies, "AA Smith Jr" becomes "Sr" (if there is also a later one so named). Or just "AA Smith" if not. Using "AA Smith I" and "AA Smith II" would have been preferable.

Re: Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Posted: 15 Sep 2007 6:55PM GMT
Classification: Query
I have come across numerous instances of this practice in New England. It is most definately true. Also, when the elder of the name died, the younger dropped "Jr." altogether, or in turn became "Sr." if there was a younger person with that name in town. I have come across instances where there were 4 or 5 men of the same name in one town. You will probably find them to be "Sr.," "Jr.," "3rd," etc., although sometime "1st" and "2nd." When one of them died, the references shifted accordingly. So John Briggs "3rd" would become "2nd" or "Jr." if the next older John Briggs died. This is found in deed and probate records, at least.

Doug

Re: Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Posted: 9 Oct 2007 9:37PM GMT
Classification: Query
And to add further confusion, my grandfather was Peter Clark Lane, Jr., named for his grandfather Peter Clark Lane, not his father who was Theodore A. Lane. My parents had no idea who added the Junior or why. Grampy passed when I was eight months old so I obviously never had a chance to ask him.

Liz Petry, author of "Can Anything Beat White? A Black Family's Letters," published by the University Press of Mississippi, available at www.lizpetry.com

Re: Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Posted: 31 Jan 2008 8:45PM GMT
Classification: Query
It varies and one should "never assume"

I have come across cases (in the Overton family) where Sr. was the grandfather of Jr., not his father.

I am told that there are cases where Sr. was an uncle to Jr, and the designations were used because they lived in same area and a distinction was needed between the two.

In my Johnston line my great great grandfather was John Waller Johnston (no designation after the name) and he died the same month his only son was born, also named John Waller Johnston. Later the younger one had a son of his own also named John Waller Johnston and at that point they started using the designations Sr. and Jr. (even though they were really the 2nd and 3rd in direct line with the same name).

There are now also a III and IV (even though they are really 4th and 5th in direct line with same name).

Re: Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Posted: 28 May 2010 4:31AM GMT
Classification: Query
this was a big help to me thankz

Re: Sr. & Jr. meaning in records?

Posted: 1 Jul 2011 10:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
You never lose the line of succession. The Jr. dies with you and stays with you as I, II, III, etc. It would be too confusing otherwise for identifiacation. Like having two Richards the III or two George the IV; etc.
per page

Find a board about a specific topic