Seneca Nation - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Indian Heritage

malicechaotica — 2009-11-04 23:09:34Z

Hi, my father is a Goings from South Dakota, Pine Ridge Indian Reservation though I have never really met him. Maybe we are related?

Re: Betsey (?maiden name) King b. 1817 on Indian Reservation in Western NY or Brant Ontario, Canada - SENECA Indian

carolynegould — 2009-09-16 02:05:17Z

I am suggesting King as Betsey's maiden name since many Indians, particularly in the time period she was born, (1817-1818) used the surname of their mother. And there are so few people named King on those reservations that their could be a connection. If you have documentation that Betsey married a King, you need to share it in order for people to help. Otherwise, be open-minded on whether it was a married name or her own name.

Also, given the time period, you also need to consider that King may just be a name she decided to take because she liked it.

Cornelius Fatty was listed as Betsey's grandson, so she is either the mother of Cornelius' mother, or his father; unless, she is actually his great-grandmother. Betsey is a nickname for Elizabeth, so that is another thing to consider.

What I "think"after looking at this data, is that Eliza was the mother of Bertha and Conrnelius and that Betsey was quite possibly the mother of Eliza. Betsey would have been 39 or 40 when Eliza was born, quite possible.

You said Eliza married Moses Mohawk. I haven't checked him out, but likely with that surname he was Mohawk. But since clan and lineage goes only through the mother among the Haudenosaunee, that would make Bertha and Cornelius Seneca, which we know they were, ergo, their mother had to be Seneca, and so did Eliza's mother. Betsey was also Seneca, so the scenario works, if it can be proven.

You really should look at the NARA microfilms for the Seneca nation that I posted. It will take some time, but answers may be there.

Carolyne

Re: Betsey (?maiden name) King b. 1817 on Indian Reservation in Western NY or Brant Ontario, Canada - SENECA Indian

CathyJ1952 — 2009-09-15 21:54:36Z

You have given me much information and I'm sure you spent a lot of time getting it. I do appreciate that. I'm confused though. King is Betsey's married name. I am looking for her maiden name. I'm wondering why you are suggesting people by the name of King as her parents?

The Fatty link is easier. There seem to be so few of them that I'm thinking they are all related, so you are probably right in suggesting Cornelius is related to the Civil War guy.

George Fatty is also the father of my husband's great grandmother--Bertha Fatty. Bertha's mother was Eliza but I've been unable to determine her maiden name. The only marriage I can find for Eliza is to a Moses Mohawk. Bertha was born in 1879; Cornelius in 1883. You don't suppose Eliza could be the mother of both, do you? Eliza was born in 1857.

Re: Betsey (?maiden name) King b. 1817 on Indian Reservation in Western NY or Brant Ontario, Canada - SENECA Indian

carolynegould — 2009-09-15 21:15:42Z

The U.S. Indian Census records show a Betsey King's approximate year of birth as varying from about 1814 to 1818. It is possible there is more than one Betsey King, so you may have to sort out which is yours. Here they are in census order; and includes all Kings on same pages. I realize that a relationship is only shown between Betsey and Cornelius; but there is an outside chance that one of the other Kings is related to the original spouse of Betsey.

July 1886, Allegany reservation:
No. 518, Winston King, age 44
No. 519, Mary King, age 44
No. 520, Jennie King, age 25
No. 521, Betsey King, age 69
No. 522, Mary P. King, age 48
(No relationships listed; some others on page do show)

10 Aug 1888 Cataragus Res:
(No roll numbers listed)
Winston King, 46
Jennie King, 27
Mary King, 46
Betsey King, 71
Mary P. King, 51

June 1889 on the Cattaragus reservation:
Roll number 518, Winston King, age 47
Roll number 519, Jennie King, age 28
Roll number 520, Mary King, age 47
Roll number 521, Betsey King, age 72

30 Jun 1892, Allegany Res.
Betsey King is listed as 74, roll number 535. Other Kings listed on the page include: Norton age 49, roll number 532; Jennie, age 30, roll number 533; Mary, age 49, roll number 534 (likely the wife of George.)

30 Jun 1892 (family listed again, on Seneca roll, this time with Cornelius Fatty)
No. 528, Winston King, 50
No. 529, Jennie King, 31
No. 530, Mary King, 50
No. 531, Betsey King, 75
No. 532, Cornelius Fatty, 9, grandson
(Could be Betsey's or Winston's grandson)

30 Jun 1893, Allegheny Seneca
547, Winston King, 51
548, Jennie King, 32,
549, Mary King, 51
550, Betsey King, 76
551, Cornelus Fatty, 10, grandson
552, John King, 58
553, Emma King, 47

June 1898, Allegany Res.
584, Betsey King, 81
585, Cornelius Fatty, 15, grandson
586, Jennie King, 37
587, Lucina King, 40
588, Mary King, 56

June 1898: Betsey King, age 84, roll number 505, in the household of Willett B. Jimerson, age 54, roll number 503; Amelia Jimerson (wife)age 36, roll unmber 504. Willett H. Jimerson (son), age 23, roll number 505; Carrie Jimerson, (wife of the son) age 20, roll number 506.

June 1899, Allegeny res.
621, Betsey King, 82
622. Cornelius Fatty, 16, grandson
623, Jennie King, 38
624, Lucina King, 41
625, Mary King, 57

June 1900, Allegeny res.
621, Betsey King, 83
622, Cornelius Fatty, 17, grandson
623, Jennie King, 39
624, Lucina King, 42
625, Mary King, 58

On 30 June 1904, Allegeny Res.
She is in the household of George Gordon:
George Gordon 61 Head
Ernest Gordon 14 son
Olive Gordon 10 daughter
Betsey King 87 (ditto mark) (can't be his daughter)

1905, Allegany Res.
236, George Gordon 62
237. Ernest Gordon 15
238, Oliver Gordon 11
239, Betsey King 88 Mother-in-law

Since the earliest Betsey King I could find was born circa 1814, I did a search using a five-year birth-year parameter, and only the name Betsey, keyword Seneca. I found a Betsey Eels, married to James Eels. They are enumerated on some of the same dates as your Betsey King, so I ruled this out as a connection. I ruled out Betsey Sundown and Betsey White for the same reasons.

I do believe the Betsey King in the Gordon family is your Betsey, so she would have been alive in 1905. It is also more likely, based on those census records, that her birth year was closer to 1817-1818.

Regarding Cornelius: In July 1885, he was listed as age 2, living with his father, George A. Fatty, age 39. His mother may have died, or the parents separated. There is further data on him after 1905 in the Indian census records.

Cornelius is also on the 1900 U.S. Federal Census, living in Red Horse, Cattaraugus, New York. His date of birth is listed as February 1880. Cornelius is in household 73-73, a boarder with Lucina John.

On the same page with Cornelius is Betsey King, head of household 70-70. Her birth date is listed as April 1817. She notes she has given birth 5 times and only one child is living. She has a daughter living with her (the only living child), named Ivy or Axy. It is difficult to decipher the last name. It appears to be Gordon. She is 37 years old, born May 1863.Ivy or Axy has given birth 7 times and 5 children are living. Betsey, Ivy and Cornelius are all listed as Seneca Indian.You should look at this census to see if you find a different interpretation of spelling for the daughter. I can't confirm her on any of the Indian census records.

A relative of your Cornelius Fatty may be FATTY, Cornelius died 3-1878 age 34 - Co. E 88 th PENN. Rect NYS Vols. He is buried in Memorial Heights Cemetery, also known as Breed Run Cemetery, in Salamanca, New York. That cemetery was relocated due to the construction of the Kinzua Dam. Many Seneca and Cornplanter Indians were relocated because of the dam.

For possible parents of Betsey King, I would check out: David King, James King, William King, and Young King. All were Seneca who had lived on the Cattaragus Reservation and died in the War of 1812. Of course, King could be Betsey's mother's maiden name; but if so, may still be related to one of these men.

I also recommend you check out the follwoing microfilm rolls through NARA, or your local Family History Library, for possible information on the family lines:

• 1877-1878 Census roll. 7RA78, roll 1.
• 1885-1939 Census rolls. M595, rolls 411-416, 488-489.
• Circa 1887 Allotments. 7RA26 1, rolls 1-2.
• 1890-1893 Tribal election minute book. 7RA150, roll 3.
• Circa 1900 Register of Indian families. 7RA150, roll 1. 1910-1911 Quapaw Agency
• Competency Commission reports. 7RA36, roll 1.
• 1911-1936 Record of heirship. 7RA150, roll 2.
• 1931-1934 Supplemental census rolls. 7RA150, roll 1.

I hope all this is not repeat information and that you find it some help in your search.

Carolyne
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/carolynegenealogy/

Betsey (?maiden name) King b. 1817 on Indian Reservation in Western NY or Brant Ontario, Canada - SENECA Indian

CathyJ1952 — 2009-09-14 01:15:45Z

I am looking for information on Betsey (?maiden name) King b. 1817 on Indian Reservation in Western NY or Brant Ontario, Canada - SENECA Indian. Her grandson, Cornelius Fatty, was living with her on the Allegany Indian Reservation in NY in 1899 and 1900 so she had to have been older than 83 when she died.

Hezekiah Hine, born 1754 in Connecticutt Seneca heritage

brandibarnes55 — 2009-09-02 18:04:26Z

Hello! I have recently heard that my 6th great grandfather, Hezekiah Hines, born 1754 in Connecticutt was believed to have had Iroquois-Seneca heritage. His parents were Ambrose Hines (born 1726 in Conn. and Sarah Terrill, born 1730 in Conn.) He married Abigail Dolittle. Any information on how I can go about proving his Native heritage will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Brandi

Re: Roullier

carolynegould — 2009-06-26 18:23:53Z

You still need to trace the family line first in order to accomplish your goal.

First, I recommend you join the Roullier surname mailing list at Rootsweb and post there. Also post your message to the Roullier message board since not all Roullier researchers may belong to the list.

I would check immigration records from Canada for the time period )ca 1836) looking for someone about 12 years old. The spelling of the first name that you are using does not show up anywhere on the Internet, so be open-minded regarding the spelling of the first name, and the surname, too, for that matter.

You said he came to the U.S., but did not say where. You
need to check records in that area as well as Canadian records.

If you have not yet traced your family line back to Mr. Roullier, you need to do that, and trace the collateral lines as well. It could be that another decendent has information to share; but you need to know the lines that married into the family in order to connect with them.

Learn enough French to be able to translate the the words born, died, married, baptised, witness, etc. so when you come across the records you will be able to understand them.

You also need to check Roman Catholic records in Canada. They were extremely good at keeping birth and baptismal records clear back into the early 1600s.

Good luck!
Carolyne

Re: Roullier

trac31d — 2009-06-26 16:00:51Z

I am positive that we have Seneca in our family history. When my great, great uncle died the family history book/ bible where he kept the information was lost. However, all my family members remember seeing the name that was linked to the Seneca, which we know came from the name Roullier.
Singuor was born in French Canada, and migrated to the U.S. in 1836, he was born in around 1824. That out of two weeks of looking on ancestry is all I can find at this moment, but I am still looking. I just want to know where my family came from, although I have found more out now, since the bible was lost in 1989.

Re: Roullier

carolynegould — 2009-06-25 16:57:31Z

What time period are we talking about for Singuor Roullier? Birth? Death? Census? Male, female?

You would have to trace Singuor Roullier to parents and backward to see IF there is any connection to any Senecas with the same surname. There may not be.

Roullier

trac31d — 2009-06-24 22:47:06Z

I am looking for information on the name Roullier, from what I was told Twin River(s), Canada, and later settled in NY, with ties to the Seneca tribe. From what I was told the Roullier name ties my genealogy back to Seneca. However, I don't have a name. The only name I have is Singuor Roullier, who would have came later, at least in my tree. Thanks for your help.

Re: Eliza MOHAWK and daughter Bertha E FATTY JIMERSON-Seneca Indians on Allegany & Cattaraugus Reservations

carolynegould — 2009-05-26 17:27:30Z

Try the 1930 U.S. Federal Census --- the "normal" one. Also try it in 1920. I have often found Indian families enumerated on both the Indian census and the normal 10-year census.

Carolyne

Eliza MOHAWK and daughter Bertha E FATTY JIMERSON-Seneca Indians on Allegany & Cattaraugus Reservations

CathyJ1952 — 2009-05-25 00:57:38Z

I am researching my husband's line through his Great Grandmother, Bertha E Fatty b. 1879. Bertha was the daughter of Eliza b. 1857-maiden name MAY have been Fatty but I'm not sure. If Fatty was her MARRIED name, then I don't know Eliza's maiden name. ANYWAY, Eliza married Moses Mohawk and the three of them are listed on 10 US Indian Censuses in a row as a family unit, with Bertha being listed as Moses' stepdaughter. Bertha married Jacob Martin Jimerson in Aug 1899 and they had 11 children together. The last Indian census I find Bertha on is 1924 with her husband and 5 of their children.

Alexander JIMERSON, SENECA Indian on Allegany and Cattaraugus Indian Reservations in NY

CathyJ1952 — 2009-05-21 10:51:14Z

I am looking for the parents and spouse of Alexander JIMERSON, SENECA Indian on Allegany and Cattaraugus Indian Reservations in NY. He was b. abt 1852 and d. 28 Apr 1918. He had at least one son, Jacob Martin Jimerson b. 19 Feb 1873 on the Cattaragus Indian Reservation in Erie Co, NY, date of death unknown.

Re: Pratt

DonalynnRaeBarrett — 2009-05-15 20:21:39Z

Hi I am married to Preston Roberts brother.There Dad Robert Pratt B-7 Aug.1913,D-28 Dec.2006.He married Martha Rose,B-13 Mar.1914 D 3 July 1969.Preston,Roberts grandmothers name is Delia B-29Dec.1894 D-April 1973 Albany NY.You might already have this.Thanks for the info.on Robert Jr.And his wife.My comp. was down so i have not wrote any one.Hope every one is ok.Do you see Buckie tell every one hi.Love Donalynn

Re: Allen, Doctor, ,Jameson, Jemison, Jimerson, Lay, Logan, Scott

CathyJ1952 — 2009-04-30 01:46:18Z

I thank you kindly for all the information, Carolyne. I am really new at this and it has been consuming me day and night. GOOD THING I'M RETIRED! I will check into all that you have sent.

Re: Allen, Doctor, ,Jameson, Jemison, Jimerson, Lay, Logan, Scott

carolynegould — 2009-04-30 00:51:53Z

Regarding the Doctor family, I recommend contacting the American Philosophical Society. They have some records, including old letters relating to American Indians. Among them is a letter from Ely S. Parker to his "neice, Laura Doctor."

There is also a letter that shows "PARKER, SPENCER CONE. Letter to Caroline Parker [May 14, 1851]. A.L.S. 1p.
Jesse Tiffany and Ya-de-sose died April 18, and Joh-doh on May 4. Charles Doctor and Eli Johnson are at school in Aurora. The letter is signed Gau-nos-qua.
"

Charles Doctor would have been under age 20 in 1851 and it is possible he is the same as the Charles born 1833.

The "Gazetteer and Biographical record of Genesee County, N.Y. 1788-189" mentions the son of Charles Doctor, Charles Jr., born in 1871. Here is the excerpt"

"William Poodry was of French origin. He married an Indian woman,
by whom he had three sons and one daughter, one of whom, Lewis, was a soldier in the War of 18 12 in the American army. He married Phebe Jonas, and reared a large family, of whom three only are living. Maria, a daughter, married Levi Parker, of Alabama.

E. M. Poodry was born on the Tonawanda Reservation, August 15, 1833. He early manifested an aptitude for learning, and, making the best of advantages within his reach, succeeded in obtaining a good business education, which enabled him to become one of the chiefs in the councils of his tribe. He married Amanda Griffin, November 6, 1856, and they were the parents of 11 children, viz.: Malvina, born February 3, 1858, married Warren Skye in 1883 ; Thomas J,, born May 5, i860; Sarah J., born April 3, 1862, married Asa Skye; William S., born December 4, 1864, died June 28, 1887 ; Barnum, born March 30, 1867, married Sarah C. Brant, February 14, 1889; Anna M., born June ii, 1869, married'
Charles Doctor, August 12, 1888; Edward, born July 23, 1871 ; Stafford, born F'ebruary 28, 1875 ; Fanny C, born February 17, 1877; Henrietta, born November 8, 1880; and Dora, born June 26, 1883. Mr. Poodry is extensively engaged in farming, and occupies about 3 50 acres
of land on road 38."

I noticed on the rolls for the Tonawanda Reservation that there is an Isaac Doctor who is 20 years older than your Charles and they are enumerated next to each other on several of the rolls. I would check that possibility as his father.

Lucinka is found at least once enumerated on the Indian rolls as Lucinda.

You may already have this data. If so, I apologize for not bringing anything new to the discussion. But, perhaps others will have some information.

Carolyne

Re: Allen, Doctor, ,Jameson, Jemison, Jimerson, Lay, Logan, Scott

CathyJ1952 — 2009-04-29 23:51:26Z

ALLEN, Sally - 1763 - Gardeau Flats, Livingston, New York, USA - Spouse, Thomas Jemison - 1762-1811 - Scioto County, Ohio, USA (need parentage)

DOCTOR, Charles W - 1833-1891 - Tonawanda Reservation, NY - Spouse, Lucinka Jemison - 1840-1866 - Buffalo Creek Reservation, NY (need parentage)

JAMESON, Alexander - 1590-1659 - Alloah, Clackmannon, , Scotland - Wife, Elizabeth Bessie Chrystie - 1610 (need parentage)

JEMISON, Lucinka - 1840-1866 - Buffalo Creek Reservation, NY - Spouse, Charles W Doctor - 1833-1891 - Tonawanda Reservation, NY - Father, Jemison - Mother, Ganodohaah (need info on parentage)

JIMERSON, Alexander - 1852 - Son, Jacob M Jimerson - 1873- New York, USA (need parentage and wife)

LAY, Sylvester Cowles Lay - 1822-1907 - New York, USA - Wife, Abigail - 1820 - New York, USA (need parentage and wife's information)

LOGAN, George - Son, Frank - 1873-1945 - Cattaraugus Reservation, NY (need parentage and spouse)

SCOTT, Fidelia - 1874-1920 - Collins, NY - Husband, Frank Logan - 1873-1945 - Cattaraugus Reservation, NY - Father, Scott - Mother, Carrie F (need info on parents)

Re: Allen, Doctor, ,Jameson, Jemison, Jimerson, Lay, Logan, Scott

carolynegould — 2009-04-29 22:57:25Z

There is really not enough data here for a person to know if the name matches the same person on their family tree. It would help if you listed the family groups with their spouses, children and the place names involved.

Carolyne

Re: Adda Tinemuth Cyphert (Haight), Orcelia/Orcella Ann Horton

JamesPierce1713 — 2008-10-10 00:51:55Z

Just from I have experienced on Native lineage it is very difficult to document.. you like me could follow back to where the individual was at birth if possible and guestimate what tribe.. Pa.. had Iroquois/Susquehannock/ and some of what was known as Delaware which really isn't an original name.. mostly algonquin speaking peoples.. very difficult .. to find most were Christianized and lost their heritage unless they were strong enough to PASS information through word of mouth or Bibles.. if you find anything on the DNA let me know.. at Piercearrow50@aol.com

Re: Inquiry about Davis, Taylor, Hill and Feather family surnames within the Senecas

teresamccall — 2009-03-08 21:18:25Z

Well i know that at Six Nations Reserve there are families with the Davis and Taylor surnames, but I'm not sure if those mentioned in my family tree are related to them. I do know that the area in which they were born; Fayette and Mercer counties in Pennsylvnia. The Taylors lived in Mercer; the area of the Seneca/Mingos, and the Davis's lived in Fayette county, where some of the Lenni Lenape had migrated to after being forced out of the Delaware Valley. Could you please list which Nations have the Taylor and Davis surnames?

Inquiry about Davis, Taylor, Hill and Feather family surnames within the Senecas

teresamccall — 2009-03-07 22:33:26Z

Carolyn...Sken:noh!...I am a Seneca but am looking for confirmation about the following people within my family whom we strongly suspect as of Native ancestry. Barnet Taylor;B: 1785 in Mercer County, Pennnsylvania, close to the town of Shenango, Pennsylvania m Rebbeca, no last name, b:1789. David Davis b: 1793, Fayette County, Penn. Is the surname of Feather also Haudenosaunee by chance, as we do have a Martha or Mary Feather who married David Taylor and she too was from Mercer County, Penn; Sandy Creek to be exact, again very close to the town Shenango(why does that town name ring a bell?) William Hill b: Tompkins County, NY, father of Lavinia M Hill, who married Burton F. Kellogg and she was born in 1804, but we have no birthdate for him, nor do we have a a birthplace. He married Eliza Sackett, born in Stephentown, NY, no birthdate or deathdate...We have a Uriah Hill who married a Mary Root...is that a Native surname? in fact all of these are deadends in my family, but all, with the exception of Uri Hill and Mary Root, who were from Litchfield, Conn., were born in the area of where the Seneca/Mingo were living, i.e. near the border of Ohio/W. Virginia, as well as the Lenni Lenape... i look forward to hearing any insights, or info you may be able to provide...nia:wen...Tim(bf of Teresa McCall)

Jeremiah Thompson

loyallen — 2009-01-24 22:21:12Z

I have a distant relative, Jeremiah Thompson b abt 1819 in Cumberland PA. He married Louisa and they had a daughter Sarah who became by Grandmother's Grandmother. I understand that Sarah Thompson was a full blooded Seneca.

Any suggestions to guide me in my search for Jeremiah Thompson's ancestors?

Re: Daisy Murray of Iowa possibly "Iroquois"

carolynegould — 2008-12-31 20:12:50Z

The term "colored," depending on the census year, can mean person of color (Indians, Asian Indians, Asians, Filipino, etc.) or Negro. There were census years where the term Negro and Black were used, and it actually meant Indian. And there are census years where white included Indians. So, race classification is always questionable when tracing American Indian heritage.

Re: Daisy Murray of Iowa possibly "Iroquois"

carolynegould — 2008-12-31 19:52:22Z

P.S.

I recommend that you do not ignore the parentage of Daisy's mother, Louisa. It is always possible that she was Indian.

Carolyne

Re: Daisy Murray of Iowa possibly "Iroquois"

carolynegould — 2008-12-31 19:50:48Z

I searched census records for you. (Below). On all records, the people are listed as white. What you need now, is the 1835 Canadian Census records. They have two for that year: basically one for Europeans, etc. and one for the Indians aka First Nations people. You need to see which list Joseph Sr. and his wife Mary Beauchamp are on. The Canadians are a little better than the U.S. when it comes to identifying Indians. Based on what I have found, you should check the province of Quebec. Contact the Canadian Library and Archives on how to have the census records researched and copied.

Carolyne

1850 U.S. Federal Census (Louis and parents)
Beekmantown, Clinton, New York
Joseph Murray 50 Canada (b. about 1800) blacksmith
Mary Murray 49 Canada (b. about 1801)
Harriet Murray 16 Canada
Armine Murray 13 Canada
Louis Murray 11 New York (b. about 1839)
Rosalie Murray 8 New York
(NOTE: would have come from Canada after birth of "Armine" and before birth of Louis. This would be circa 1837 to 1839)

1860 U.S. Federal Census (brother and father of Louis)
East Waterloo, Black Hawk County
Post Office: Cedar Falls
Joseph Murray 32 Canada shinglemaker (b. about 1828)
Margaret Murray 28 Canada
John Murray 10 Canada
Josephine Murray 9 Canada
Sylva Murray 5 Canada
Lewis Murray 3 Iowa
Margaret Murray 5.12 Iowa
Joseph Murray 62 Canada blacksmith (b. about 1798)
(NOTE: The Joseph age 32 should be a son who was already married and out of the household in 1850. Mary, the mother not listed. Possibly dead. Appears the son emigrated from Canada about 1856 or 1857 since his son Lewis was born in Iowa abt 1857.)

1860 U.S. Federal Census (Louis)
Cedar Falls, Black Hawk, Iowa
Post Office: Cedar Falls
Cyrus Ashley 62 NY
Millison Ashley 64 NY
Abigail Ashley 34 NY
Lovinia Ashley 33 NY
Louis Murray 21 NY
Wm Morgan 13 Illinois

1870 U.S. Federal Census (Louis and father)
Mount Vernon, Black Hawk, Iowa
Post Office: Cedar Falls
Louis Murray 30 NY farmer 5700-1290
Louisa Murray 22 IA
Effie Murray 6
Nattie Murray 3
Mary Firman 21 Wisconsin
Nancy Thoroughman 65 OH (Likely the mother of Louisa)
Joseph Murray 75 Canada farmer (father of Louis) (b. about 1795)

1874 (father of Louis?)
There is a Joseph Murray born 1800, died 1874, listed in Hillside Cemetery, Washington, Black Hawk County, Iowa. Possibly the father of Louis.

1880 U.S. Federal Census (Louis)
Black Hawk, Iowa
Lewis Murray 40 New York farmer Canada Canada
Louisa Murray 33 wife IA
Effie C. Murray 16 dau
Nettie L. Murray 13 dau
Cora E. Murray 10 dau
Harvey C. Murray 8 son
Bertha A. Murray 4 dau
Eva Maud Murray 2 dau
(Infant, not named yet) Murray 2/12 (born March 1880, relationship blank)

1880 U.S. Federal Census (Joseph, brother of Louis)
Joseph Murray 52 Canada Canada Canada
Margaret Murray 48 Canada Canada Canada
Lewis Murray 22 son IA Canada Canada
Arvilla Murray 13 dau IA Canada Canada
George Murray 10 son IA Canada Canada
Florence Murray 3 adopted daughter Iowa
Joseph Wool 82 father-in-law Canada blank blank
Samuel Mumpford 25 laborer

1885 Iowa State Census (Louis/Lewis)
Mount Vernon, Black Hawk County
Lewis Murray 45 born in New York farmer
Louisa Murray 37 born Linn County Iowa
Effie C Murray 20 born in Black Hawk County, teacher.
Nettie L Murray 18 born in Black Hawk County
Cora E Murray 14 born in Black Hawk County
Harvey C Murray 12 born in Black Hawk County
Bertha A Murray 8 born in Black Hawk County
Mand E Murray 6 born in Black Hawk County
Herbert Murray 4 born in Black Hawk County
Daisy Murray 1 born in Black Hawk County

1900 U.S. Federal Census (Louis/Lewis)
East Waterloo Township (Excl. Waterloo City), Black Hawk, Iowa
Occupation: View on Image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Lewis Murray 60 Jul 1839 M-37 NY Canada Canada
Louisa Murray 53 wife Jan 1847 M-37 10-9 IA OH OH
Herbert Murray 20 son Mar 1880 IA NY IA
Daisy Murray 17 dau Jan 1883 IA NY IA
Cassius Murray 14 son Dec 1885 IA NY IA
Hezel Murray 9 dau Sep 1890 IA NY IA
(NOTE: Married 37 years, Louisa has had 10 live births, only 9 living.)

1908
There is a Joseph Murray, born 1828 and died 19 Feb 1908, buried in Greenwood Cemetery, Cedar Falls, Black Hawk County. This is likely Joseph, the brother of Louis/Lewis.)

1910 U.S. Federal Census (Louis/Lewis)
Waterloo Ward 4, Black Hawk, Iowa
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Gender: Male
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Lewis Murray 70 NY M-46 Canada French Canada French
Louisa Murray 63 IA OH OH M-46 10-8
(NOTE: Married 46 years, married only once, 10 live births, 8 living)

1915 Iowa State Census (Louis/Lewis)
Census card shows he is age 75, born in New York, both parents born in Canada. His home is valued at $2500; he is retired and is a member of a Methodist church. He lives at 1226 Franklin, Waterloo, Black Hawk County.

1920 U.S. Federal Census (Louisa)
Louisa is listed as a widow living with her daughter Bertha Murray Ford in Cedar Falls Ward 1, Black Hawk, Iowa. Bertha has a daughter Helen Ford, age 17. Bertha is also listed as a widow.

Re: Daisy Murray of Iowa possibly "Iroquois"

carolynegould — 2008-12-29 15:57:22Z

You haven't given us any dates of birth for Daisy, or her parents, so suggestions are limited. But, I think the first thing you need to do is find her and her parents on census records. This should give you her place of birth and her parents' place of birth. (Check more than one census since info is not always accurate on census records.) Finding where they were born will help a little bit in narrowing down possible tribes.

Carolyne

Re: Jeremiah Thompson

carolynegould — 2009-01-26 04:54:12Z

Have you found Jeremiah and his family in any census records? That is a good place to start. Also the census records for Sarah after she married into the family. If she lived long enough, she may have listed Jeremiah and her mother's state of birth, etc. Also try church and historical records in there areas where they lived.

Carolyne

Re: Inquiry about Davis, Taylor, Hill and Feather family surnames within the Senecas

carolynegould — 2009-03-08 16:04:46Z

Almost all of those surnames can be found on Indian rolls, but the only one that includes the Haudenosaunee is HILL. The others are all from tribes that are not near Pennsylvania, with the exception of the surname ROOT which is found among the Ojibwe, known in Canada as the Cree.

The time period you are giving me is way too early for most known rolls of the Haudenosaunee.You are going to need to work backwards, through their great-grandchildren, grandchildren, children (just as you would for any ordinary genealogical research) to see if you can find a family group with the right names at the right ages on one of the rolls.

Microfilm at NARA that covers them includes:

SENECA

• 1877-1878 Census roll. 7RA78, roll 1.
• 1885-1939 Census rolls. M595, rolls 411-416, 488-489.
• Circa 1887 Allotments. 7RA26 1, rolls 1-2.
• 1890-1893 Tribal election minute book. 7RA150, roll 3.
• Circa 1900 Register of Indian families. 7RA150, roll 1. 1910-1911 Quapaw Agency
• Competency Commission reports. 7RA36, roll 1.
• 1911-1936 Record of heirship. 7RA150, roll 2.
• 1931-1934 Supplemental census rolls. 7RA150, roll 1.

Ancestry.com also has U.S. Indian Census Schedules, 1885-1940, but again, you'll need to have your family groups in front of you with names and birthdates in order to see if they are on the schedules.

Carolyne

Re: Inquiry about Davis, Taylor, Hill and Feather family surnames within the Senecas

carolynegould — 2009-03-09 15:02:22Z

P.S.

Almost every Indian tribe or nation has a Taylor and/or a Davis. You have to focus on the areas where your families lived and associated tribes.

Re: Inquiry about Davis, Taylor, Hill and Feather family surnames within the Senecas

carolynegould — 2009-03-09 14:52:36Z

Only Hill is related in any way to the Haudenosaunee. The others are Plains Indians --- Blackfoot, Sioux, etc.

Re: Seneca Indian Of Sandusky Were Paid For Land Improvements. 1832

carolynegould — 2008-11-07 16:50:25Z

Thank you for posting the links to your data. It should prove helpful for searchers of Seneca ancestry as well as people of other Indian nations.

Carolyne
Seneca Nation Board administrator

Let's stick to genealogy

carolynegould — 2008-12-08 19:18:21Z

The focus of this message board is to aid people who are trying to research their proven or possible family ties to the Seneca Nation of Indians. There are other forums "out there" for discussions of other aspects regarding Indian heritage.

Let's work on genealogy here, please.

Carolyne
Board Administrator

Re: Seneca Language or dialects

carolynegould — 2008-12-08 19:10:40Z

You can find Seneca dictionaries at the following website:

http://www.yourdictionary.com/languages/north.html

Please remember that this message board is for genealogical research.

Thank you,
Carolyne
Administrator

Seneca Indian Of Sandusky Were Paid For Land Improvements. 1832

dsegelquist — 2008-11-06 20:52:02Z

I have posted a list of Seneca Indian Of Sandusky who were paid for improvements on their land, if you would like to see the list come on over.

Dennis Segelquist
Civilian & Military Surname Searcher
http://www.civilwarthosesurnames.blogspot.com

Seneca's of Sandusky property being sold-1830-33

dsegelquist — 2008-11-06 07:32:44Z

I have put up list of Senecas of Sandusky names it is a list of those who had to sell some of their property, cattle and home utensils. This list gives the names of who was selling and those buying and what was sold and for how much. If you would like to look over the list come over to my web site. Look for the title ( Indian property being sold-1830-1833.)

Dennis Segelquist
Civilian & Military Surname Searcher
http://www.civilwarthosesurnames.blogspot.com

Seneca Language or dialects

LynGarl — 2008-12-08 17:38:43Z

I'm descendant from an Indian tribe in New York but not sure which one. Closest I can guess is something in NW New York.

I'm interested in naming my boat but would like to use something in the Seneca native language.

Can anyone point me to any free resources that can translate English into Seneca, or possibly someone familiar with the language that would be willing to help me?

Thanks,
Craig Garland

Re: Seneca Language or dialects

LynGarl — 2008-12-09 00:34:30Z

My apologies, I didn't read enough to fully grasp the intent of this board.

Thanks for the URL :)

Re: Lost tribes of the Haudenosaunee

angelabrust — 2008-12-01 17:25:28Z

I don't have a connection to your family names as you list them. But I DO have a connection to the sentiments you have expressed. They are exactly what I have been feeling and what has drawn me into researching my family roots. I have a connection to the Seneca, which was mere family legend until recently. I am still trying to verify parts of it, however. I am very drawn to this part of my heritage, a subconscious calling to return to a different reality and perceptions. As you have mentioned, I would be considered "indian" by the government but not by the tribal registry....however, I would like to get sponsorship to learn more about my culture. I think what needs to happen is that the Haudenosaunee Nation, needs to decide to accept us and teach us in order to better preserve and further their culture. By excluding us, they only limit themselves and the possibilities.

What do you suggest to resolve this quandery?

Re: what we must do

angelabrust — 2008-12-01 22:00:07Z

I agree with what you have indicated. I do read and teach myself as much as I am able.

As for why some children take on recessive traits, I believe that geneticists now have a theory about trigger events that switch genes on and off. Perhaps there is a correlation.

I am familiar with legends that can be explained with science. However, there are other ways of perceiving reality. I think it is probably a combination of both a perceptual shift and scientific evidence that are closest to the "truth". Check out Mystery of the Crystal Skulls which includes much native folklore, including Turtle island.

Native legends also indicate a "shift" in thinking that will soon be occuring. It is my humble opinion that tribal elders should recognize that one way to begin this is to share with us, the lost tribe. As you said, some do and some don't. and I don't think they should share with all......just those of us who are willing and serious.

Re: What you can't find in books,will be somewhere else

angelabrust — 2008-12-02 18:15:22Z

Ok. Point taken. Stop pining for what cannot be and do your best with what you have got...which is a fountain of information via books and the internet. I have been doing that all along, but was still pining. I like your point about bringing a broader perspective bec of being an outsider. There is an inherent "socialization" (the less harsh word for the concept) in belonging to any group which we avoid by being at the same time part of and seperate from both cultures.

So if we apply this "lost tribe" concept more broadly, all of our biracial or multi-racial people should not be feeling left out or forced to choose among cultures, but instead do what you suggest. Since real historians and scientists know that the concept of "race" is not accurate and are aware of the depth of admixture most cultures have really sustained...this "internal conflict" that we are describing has begun with human history and will contine until we are all blended homogenously or the human race is no more. So it is definately an agent of human evolution. But I do not call it "new".

I think we have failed to resolve this conflict in our currrent reality for two reasons:
1) Children facing this do not get the understanding, support and guidance they need to resolve it in a healthy manner. These children often grow up to be resentful, unhealthy adults.
2) There is too much societal pressure to bend and blend, rather than honoring the knowledge of all cultures.

Anyway, I think it has already been said that the journey is more important to our growth than the destination. I believe that if all were to embark on this journey of research,self discovery and study of all cultures the human race would greatly mature and evolve.

In the meantime, it has been a pleasure exchanging ideas with you. Hope your journey is a fruitful one and offers many blessings.

Daisy Murray of Iowa possibly "Iroquois"

KyleDane — 2008-12-28 19:15:30Z

Here's the puzzle for my family. My grandfather's mother, Daisy Murray was, we believe, half Indian. However, she denied her Indian heritage throughout her lifetime. It was only discovered after her death that she was part Indian. What my grandfather was told is that his mother was "Iroquois", not Sioux (the largest local tribe where they lived in Iowa and South Dakota).

Due to Daisy's denial of her Indian roots, we have precious little exact information to go by to track her ancestry. Was her Indian background through her father Louis Murray, or through her mother Louisa (last name Thurman according to some family historians)? Which Iroquois tribe was she from and when did they come west? If anyone has any information, email me at ckdane@yahoo.com

Re: Daisy Murray of Iowa possibly "Iroquois"

KyleDane — 2008-12-31 07:27:25Z

Carolyne, thanks for replying. Here's what I have been able to piece together:

Daisy Murray was born 1883 in Iowa. Her father was Louis Murray, born 7/28/1839 in New York, died in Iowa in April, 1918. My mother says that the research her uncle did (but which we don't have access to any more) indicated that Louis was a full Indian.

I'm fairly sure that Louis's father was Joseph Murray, born in Quebec, Canada, possibly Montreal in 1799. He appears to have lived in Beekmantown, NY in the 1850 Census. According to some family history I've found online his wife's name was Mary Beauchamp, born in Montreal in 1800.

Kyle

Re: Daisy Murray of Iowa possibly "Iroquois"

KyleDane — 2008-12-31 20:06:11Z

Since I posted this originally, I've discovered that Louisa was most likely Louisa Thoroman, whose father Crawford Thoroman or Thoroughman was of the Adams, Ohio Thoroman clan, so it's less likely that her family is where our Indian heritage is.

These census records are really fantastic for piecing these things together. From all the US records I've been looking at, it looks like the only race information is "White" or "Colored". I presume that means African American, not the modern term "persons of Color".

Re: Surnames Dean & Gibson

mspearce1 — 2008-10-01 20:21:58Z

I found him on the 1910, 1920 & 1930 Federal Census Reports.
On the 1910 He was shown as Lew Dean (NY Residence). On the 1920 he was Lew Dean (New York Residence). On the 1930 Lew C. Dean (Massachusetts Residence). On his Military Reg Card his name was Lewis L. Dean. and another he was Lewis Gibson Dean. His Death Certificate shows Lewis Gibson Dean.

I did not find him on the 1900 census. There was a Lewis C. Dean but the date of birth was different and the parents names were Frank & Ella.

What you can't find in books,will be somewhere else

brucbake — 2008-12-02 17:17:07Z

Ya know, I had this long answer I as writing and I just deleted it.

Fact is ... everyday there is new discoveries being found in Archeology, and in Science also. If we study everything about human history, Civilizations, then add in the long term knowledge of how many times catastrophes have destroyed nearly all life on planet earth and it has come back, you will see that this NEW TRIBE I speak of is the evolution of humanity.

On the one hand there is the developement of tribe on Turtle Island, and on the other hand there are other tribes on other continents. We know that only a dozen or so different tribes survived 74,000 years ago, and that a meteor destroy all animal life in North America. These are facts found in the layers of earth below our feet as well in the evidence of our DNA.

There are only a few things we have to go back to tribal elders to learn that hasn't already been left to us in books, or in studying other people and other cultures around the world.

I could be wrong, but think that we are instinctually harkening back to a time in our ancestry when the European tribes and the North American tribes were more alike in behavior and in culture. The answer that we, the lost tribe, seek is an inter-cultural educational program so that we are made aware of the ways Native Americans have learned to recognize and control their behavioral traits, which seems a bit more difficult in todays modern world.

In some ways, the tribal cohesiveness is endangered by the European model, but the ability of the Modern way of living by embracing the European industrial society has developed trouble among the people because there is more idle time and not enough busy hands. Some of this is translated into harkening back to earlier periods of our ancestry.

Why even the lactose intolerant are from a time before the domestication of cattle and when goat's milk was the primary source of milk. So indeed, there is actual scientific evidence in today's modern world some people have genetic links back to an older more ancient time in our ancestry.

NOT being indoctrinated into the ways of a tribe has allowed me to see things more broadly, more openly. So, in some ways I am not sad at all as I have not been forced to see things only one particular way. By being forced to find many other sources of information causes one to see the world in a much broader way, but isn't that what outsiders bring to the tribe anyway? We bring a much broader view of the world, and what exists outside the tribal circle.

I have tried ask questions, but many times the secrets within each tribe is like the politics of a street gang, if I am correct in my observations. Maybe it is the other way around, street gangs have assumed the order and allegiances of native tribes ... yeah, that is more towards the order of ancient ways, isn't it.

So my solution is to grab everything I can from what already exists in the studies of civilization, let alone modern studies of the Native American over the last two hundred years, of which there is enough to keep one busy for years on end. It is a longer route to discover what could be learned in an inter-cultural educational program, but it gets to the same point with less propaganda and brainwashing. (There might be more politically correct words than propaganda and brainwashing, but I am pretty stupid so the basic meaning is achieved with these harsher words.) We need to gain insight without bigotry. All too often, to be part of a group the indoctrination is to embrace some type of bigotry.

Well, not casting aspersions to anyone or any group, the same knowledge can be gathered with research and determination, and maybe whatever you thought you would get is expanded by your journey to places you might not have gone by just limiting your studies or your education to strict tribal sources.

It is my thought, that in her infinite experimentation of life, nature has made us the way we are in another of her experiments. It is our duty, in this experiment of evolution, to figure out where we belong. That is why I say .... we are a new tribe. We connect to tribes of Europe six to nine thousand years ago, and we connect to tribes of North America in a more modern age and time. I am just trying to figure out how that translates our fitting into this modern era of transition between great catastrophes before all life is destroyed once again as it has been six or seven times in the history of planet earth.

Estimates are 5,0000-10,000 years before the next supervolcano eruption or an unknown period of time before a meteor hits the earth destroying 99% of all life, but in the meantime .... our little tiny problems of figuring out how our genetics affect our behaviors and how we fit into different cultures different societies of our present world .... we are gonna have to work on that, aren't we. Yup, that is I why I say ... NEW TRIBE. The Tribe of the computer? Maybe ...

what we must do

brucbake — 2008-12-01 21:42:47Z

About the only thing we can do is to listen to the voices of the past as they speak to us.

Study the history, legends and ways of all related tribes, and then to find our own way so we don't lose sight of the fact that we live differently than our neighbors around us, and yet we live the same as those we have chosen to assimilate our lives into their society also.

Genetic markers point out how many ancestors we might have and maybe how long ago their genes were joined with our own, but no one can explain why one child might have behavioral traits like a Native, and another in the same family is more European. I explain it as a genetic anomaly where some sleeping genes become dominant.

History shows us that no civilization lasts forever. Some go on for a long time, but eventually tribes are assimulated by the majority of of civilization,, and occasionally enough natives survive but their genes are changed. In light of science, there are always needed outside marriages that must be introduced to keep the gene-pool strong, so it is inevitable that the makeup of the tribe will evolve and change despite traditionalists who seek to keep change from happening.

So, I don't know what argument will change the minds of some tribal members, but DNA certainly seems to be one way to identify ancestors, or the percentage of identifiers that would link us to Europeans or Natives in North America since that last big meteor strike wiped clean the life inhabiting Turtle Island about 12,000 years ago. The earth beneath our feet contains the truth and clues to history.

READ Books. LEARN FROM Online websites, and whatever else you can get your hands on, is all I can recommend right now.

Ya know what, that meteor strike about 12,000 years ago ... might also be the cause for the great flood all around the world. No one knows when it happened, but a tidal wave, maybe wave after wave, would certainly be possible from a strike big enough to destroy all living creatures on a continent could cause a world-wide flood, right? Just a thought.

There is just so much we are only recently discovering about legends which are directly related to scientific finds and one after the other leads to some connection of what at first seem like unrelated events.

Events like the Santorini/ Atlantis volcano eruption which might explain the exodus miracles of Moses? How many more catastrophic natural events will actually explain the legends of the five nations, now six nations?

Call it God's will, or the Will of the Great Spirit, but we have a purpose in nature, which might not be clear at first, but eventually, it will. Our genetic make-up is nature experimenting again. Question is ... will we be up to doing what we were created to do or just fade away?

This is why I say we are the LOST TRIBE. The outcasts who are finding a new way in a new world.

Well I am not worried about it. But, I do need to get back to the Warren County Historical society and gather more of the information that was the tree branches I didn't copy because I was so occupied with my Baker tree trunk before I added onto the Branches of my ancestry. There a many little clues about get-togethers with local natives in events, and clues about marriages, let alone I keep finding more and more pictures of the Cornplanter Descendants who are also in pictures of my late Grandmother Bennett/ Baker's photo album pictures. It is just too weird.

Anyway, my main Y-DNA is identifed as English/ Irish/ Scottish so I know the males for the last two hundred or more years were from that lineage. The rest is up for grabs ... my behaviors are very comfortable with so-called Traditional Indian Values, but being raised in European Industrial society, and being mostly European, there is a certain comfort level there also. Maybe it all comes down to both practicality and common sense.

The Seneca are very friendly with the Swiss. The Swiss were one of the first to recognize Seneca traveling on their own issued Seneca Passport. Maybe there is some distant affinity and Nature is at work here, but then again ... my paternal Grandmother's people have a Swiss ancestry that can be traced back to the 12th century in Switzerland. And I am still not sure about some of the other tree branches where marriages were with women whose mothers were full blooded Haudenosaunee.... some of those records are pretty fuzzy. or missing. Missing usually means ... Native.

I am rambling.

My friend has been books I have bought or found in Native tribal book stores, and listening to elders who are actually willing to talk and discuss. Some elders are pretty closed minded and get very quiet when approached the wrong way, but us outsiders being the bastards of both societies, I don't know what else we can do than to understand why we are the way we are and understand why our children sometimes are like wild little indians. Maybe they are and need some raising and understanding that is a bit different than the European model ..... it would be nice to have that knowledge and information instead of not having it.

Re: Neoska Letta

jnsnyder04 — 2009-01-26 02:42:35Z

Hello.
My name is Neoska Jewel. My mother told me it is an Indian name, but am not sure which tribe. However, she did tell me Neoska means "Stardust". Hope that helps.

Adda Tinemuth Cyphert (Haight), Orcelia/Orcella Ann Horton

thaiguybaker — 2009-01-18 17:02:56Z

Adda Tinemuth, born 16 August 1874 in Brookville, Jefferson, PA; died 18 August 1952; married Anson Wesley Haight 24 December 1892. Most likely of Native American descent (Seneca?). Her mother was Orcella/Orcellia Ann Horton, born February 1858?; daughter of Squire Henry Horton and Jude Youmans, Jefferson Co., Rose township, PA. I am descended in a straight maternal line from her. Is anyone interested in a DNA project (including testing services) to ascertain Native American lineage and any other possible information?

Guy

Allen/Doctor/Jameson/Jemison/Jimerson/Lay/Logan/Scott

CathyJ1952 — 2009-04-28 23:13:12Z

I've reached a dead end with these people in my husband's line. Any info on the parentage of the following?

Sally Allen - 1763
Charles W Doctor - 1873
Alexander Jameson - 1590
Lucinka Jemison - 1840
Alexander Jimerson - 1852
Sylvester C Lay - 1822
Frank Logan - 1873
Fidelia Scott - 1874

Hoyt Family

HoytLangley — 2009-03-12 03:06:33Z

I am looking for any relations to the Hoyt family my husband family is from Rochester Monroe Co., NY and he is descended from the Senca and Mohawk people. His Medicine Man Fred Badman told him that he was Senca. Look forward to any communications.