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Black Norwegians

Re: Black Norwegians

Posted: 1 Mar 2015 8:20PM GMT
Classification: Query
My DNA results and my mother's just came in. My mother is black Irish and my father was black Norwegian. My DNA results show 0% native American. However, I have 6% Iberian Peninsula, and my mother has 4% Iberian Peninsula. This indicates that both the black Irish and the black Norwegian are a result of Roma ancestry. My sister looks so much like a native American, that native American men have been known to get up and offer her their seat on the bus.

Re: Black Norwegians

Posted: 1 Mar 2015 11:18PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 1 Mar 2015 11:30PM GMT
That's cool, so your family knows the Hollywood stereo type of an exclusive blond blue-eyed northern Europe is a myth, although you should know Roma is a modern culture that occurred after the supposed (probably a small few invasions that were defeated and survivors absorbed from which later trade developed) Iberian invasion of Hibernia which occurred before Rome and the Roman Empire existed. Who knows what the natives spoke before they adapted a new language in the interests of trade. A type of Etruscan? Pictish? Euskara?

Japanese, Chinese, English, Spanish, Portuguese, and French as current and past languages of trade have all led to various natives in distant lands dropping their native language in the interests of facilitating trade of goods and technology. Most of India today speaks English as a second language.

You probably also know that the Irish language was established from a branch of the Italic language which includes all the Celtic languages. Archeologists think the Indo-European languages spread from the area of modern Ukraine and north of the Caspian Sea. And though some like to dismiss everything recorded in religious literature as lies, most Indo-European religions agree with that culture being originally dispersed from the same areas as conjectured from by professional archeologists with geological and written evidence, not all of it religious. Romania has shores on the northern Black Sea as well. Then as today, trading settlements were the most likely cause of the spread of technology and languages, interspersed with wars and attempted pirate raids, as is the case today. I wouldn't mistake a person of the Roma culture or from the Indian subcontinent for an Amerindian or a Mongoloid though. Typically they have enough differences to see they descended from populations that have been separated a long time. Roma are Caucasoid.

My term for what people are calling black is tan but then I never encountered a black haired tanned Caucasian being called 'black nationality X' before I started genealogy. I suppose though as tan has not been a word in English long enough (it derives from Latin) and so these people in the past would have referred to those people as dark and that has been mistranslated into black. And one should not automatically equate being dark, swarthy, or tan or having such DNA as being descended from Roma culture anymore than a blond in Ireland would claim to be descended from German people. No, the Roma, the Irish, the Germans have cultures and the DNA inheritance that they may or may not share is independent of that as the spread of English as an international language of trade demonstrates. Did you know blue used to refer to black too in old English?

Some Scandinavians and other (mostly northern) Europeans can seem to show a varying low levels of what seem to be Amerindian, East Asian DNA, or Indian subcontinent DNA because many of those people originated before migrations out of the same population in north central Asia. Also, to a much lesser extent, in the case of more recent low level migrations via trading networks. Low levels in terms of percentages, no one knows the actual number.

I still haven't done the new FTDNA Family Finder test which would likely show for sure that whether my 2% was actually Amerindian (was told Shawnee by my Maternal Grandfather, 'Injun' by my Maternal Grandmother, and Cherokee by someone else but I don't recall who) but I will eventually.

If that 2% is not Amerindian then since my mtDNA nearly matches a large cluster of people in Finland, a 3 or 4 matches in central Germany, and 2 or 3 matches in Scotland I'll have to guess it is a remnant of DNA to a long ago pairing(s) with some Sami folk. Those matches seem to match the expansion of Germanic culture, in Roman times, and then Viking culture after Rome had fell. They have +1 compared to me because it seems my mtDNA underwent a deletion after my mtDNA ancestor arrived in North America. So if that 2% is not Amerindian it is likely related to DNA associated with Sami though not exclusive of Sami (love their clothing) and was picked up in Finland.

I do have 3 exact matches for mtDNA though and they all trace back to near the Smokey Mountains in North Carolina in near where Cherokee live. One of those matches has a paper trail to prove his Amerindian ancestry but I didn't ask him which, which I should.

I read the information I shared here for my own curiosity long ago but in mostly professional publishers, although they sensationalize often, or maybe more often then lay people do, too. Now, I only occasionally investigate such things as my paper trail is mostly run out and I have to wait for advancement in DNA research and modernization of the approaches archeologists take. They seem to assume every set of bones they find is a casualty of war and/or bigoted behavior when of course that isn't likely at all. They could stand to take their noses out of the comic books for a change.
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