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How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

Posted: 29 Jun 2015 4:09AM GMT
Classification: Query
I've had a thread similar to this before but I'm still confused.

My father got himself tested and had a lot of Irish, 10% average (he had 72% Native American). He's Bolivian and I don't get how he got that average, we were expecting that to at least be Spanish but he got only 2% Iberian. Could that 10% Irish be in fact purely just Celtic and not Irish? Spain was heavily settled by Celts, especially in the north where DNA is similar to that of the Irish. Plus, the surnames in my dad's family are all Spanish and have a proud sense of belonging to Spain. So could I be right?

Thanks for any advice ! :)

Re: How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

Posted: 29 Jun 2015 4:50PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 29 Jun 2015 4:50PM GMT
"Irish" is a generic not specific tag and really applies to all the Celtic groups (Scots, Irish, Welsh, etc.) no matter where they were geographically. It would be a good idea to take the time to read the historical material that comes up when you click on the ethnicity.

Re: How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

Posted: 29 Jun 2015 4:59PM GMT
Classification: Query
Ok understanding that, Celtic markers aren't exclusive to those areas. The Celts were widespread throughout Europe and there is genetic ties to Celts of the British Isles to Iberian Celts (Insular Celts descend from migrations of Iberian Celts - explains why some where described by the Romans as having swarthy complexions in some areas such as Wales, similar to the Gauls and Iberians). So could it be possible that the "Irish" markers are actually Iberian due to the relation between the two?

P.S. The Europe West ethnic profile mentions how Basque DNA is closely related to the DNA from the Ireland profile. This could also explain why some people with Great British and/or Irish descent have a good amount of Iberian as one of their DNA regions, even without genealogical proof of belonging to that region. I understand that the DNA test can go as far back as rarely a thousand years but this information boggles me anyways.

Re: How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

Posted: 29 Jun 2015 5:02PM GMT
Classification: Query
Also, Northern Spain (Galicia, Asturias, Cantabria) are nearly regarded as Modern Celtic nations much like Ireland, Wales, Scotland, the Isle of Man, and Brittany are, and speak languages of Celtic influence. They even have bagpipes there!

Re: How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

Posted: 30 Jun 2015 4:29AM GMT
Classification: Query
If you look at the Iberian Peninsula (Spain & Portugal), one of the major sources of admixture is Great Britain and Ireland (after the Italy/Greece region). As you stated, this is likely due to a combination of the common Celtic heritage in both northern Spain and the British Isles as well as the Basque link to the Irish/Welsh.

The Basque link is more ancient and may indicate that the earliest settlers in the British Isles (pre-Celtic speakers in other words) came from farther south along the Atlantic coast, which would correspond with the southwestern France/northeastern Spain region where Basques live today. In my personal experience with Spaniards, the stereotypical Mediterranean look is rather overrated as many can easily pass for British/Irish or French.

Re: How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

Posted: 30 Jun 2015 4:40AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks! It just seemed ridiculous for my dad to have so much from the Ireland region since we have no Irish, Welsh, or Scottish ancestors on his side nor any surnames to match. Its funny because my paternal surname is Rivera which is most common in Galicia (Northern Spain), otherwise known as Celtic Spain. As for the Basque link, it would make sense why they correspond to the Europe West DNA portal. I guess all or most of my dad's Irish is in fact Northern Spanish!

P.S. you're totally right about the stereotype being overrated, its annoying when people assume dark skin as a correspondent to Southern European.

Re: How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

Posted: 1 Jul 2015 3:27AM GMT
Classification: Query
Not a problem. Yes, the same stereotype is also overrated for Italians and even Greeks for that matter. Most of northern and central Italy is full of people who pass unnoticed in France or Central Europe. The average Southern European has dark brown hair, hazel/brown eyes, and rather pale skin, and there's also a pretty large minority of blue/green eyes as well (like roughly 25-30% of people).

Americans always think jet-black hair and tan/olive skin when they think Italian, Greek, or Spanish but that's largely false actually. This appearance is more common in people from the southern/eastern Mediterranean regions, such as Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, or North Africa. Even Sicilians or Andalusians (the far south of Italy and Spain respectively) are not as swarthy as they're made out to be, and being half-Sicilian myself and having been to Sicily, I can vouch for a wide range of phenotypes among Sicilians, including a decent number of blond and/or light-eyed people.

Re: How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

Posted: 2 Jul 2015 4:33AM GMT
Classification: Query
Well overall I think people have to be careful with their DNA results, especially in cases such as this where you have two regions (Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Northern Spain + Basques) with extreme genetic relations. I also just found out that the Basques had a strong presence in Bolivia, so I guess that covers up my dad's side!

Re: How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

Posted: 2 Jul 2015 8:05AM GMT
Classification: Query
Also a strong correlation with the Catalans suggest ancient Iberian affiliation with pre-Celtic groups that would later settle the British Isles just as the Basques

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/genetic_maps_of_europe.shtml

Re: How can my father have so much Irish for being Bolivian?

Posted: 3 Jul 2015 12:49AM GMT
Classification: Query
Though the Europe West region has it, I believe this applies to the Iberian region too:

It is interesting to note that the Basque share genetic similarities to the Celts of Ireland and Scotland, despite being culturally and linguistically dissimilar and geographically separated. While the exact relationship of the groups is difficult to determine, this does highlight the interesting interplay between genetic origin and ethno-linguistic identity.
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