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Finding out why my Father, Stanley HART & Uncle were NOT called up for WW2 service

Finding out why my Father, Stanley HART & Uncle were NOT called up for WW2 service

Posted: 14 Jan 2014 4:38PM GMT
Classification: Military
Surnames: Hart
I am trying to find out why my late Father, Stanley Victor HART aged 20 in 1939 and his brother Reginald Leonard HART, aged 23 in 1939, were NOT called up for military service
.
They were both living in Fulham , London at the start of the war. By 1944 they had both married and were lving in High Wycombe Bucks. On the marriage certificate my Uncle is shown as "inspector munitions factory (clerk)". My father married a few months later and is shown simply as a "government inspector" Their Father, John Frederick HART, is also shown as a munitions factory inspector and as a government inspector on the certificater. I can understand my Grandfather working in a factory but not his sons. Both boys were healthy and did not have any special skills or knowledge.
As they both married I assume they were not hiding! Can I find out if they were called and failed to be accepted? Dad always told me that he was a teenager during ww2! However my Mum hinted that my Grandmother made sure her boys stayed out of the army. Was bribery possible?!
I am a new recruit to family history so any help would be wonderful. Thank you.

Re: Finding out why my Father, Stanley HART & Uncle were NOT called up for WW2 service

Posted: 15 Jan 2014 4:05AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 3 Mar 2014 1:45PM GMT
:):) It sounds to me as if you've probably correctly answered your own question.

Bribery ?, perhaps, influence, and a word in the right ear, and a favour done, possibly.

Mutual membership of certain mutual fraternal societies ?,...possibly.

Re: Finding out why my Father, Stanley HART & Uncle were NOT called up for WW2 service

Posted: 15 Jan 2014 12:49PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for your thoughts. Interestingly I have a photo of an elderly couple in masonic regalia which was part of the box of photos inherited from my Fathers family. But I have no idea who the pair are and they do not appear in any other snaps.it is also very difficult to see any details on the regalia which could give a clue.

The family were not wealthy. My Grandfather had various jobs starting out as a picture frame maker and a stoker at the gas works. By the end of his life he was a bookmaker! But there did not appear to be much money in the early years.

This is one to keep me occupied!

Re: Finding out why my Father, Stanley HART & Uncle were NOT called up for WW2 service

Posted: 15 Jan 2014 2:30PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 3 Mar 2014 1:44PM GMT
Wellll, it ain't always only money that gets results. The M word had crossed my mind. :):) I was a tad reluctant to mention it, but you obviously read between the lines :):) ( although there are other such similar groups ).

A couple ?, as in male and female couple ?,..Regalia clues ?,...well they might be able to help with that http://www.owf.org.uk/

As to your relative's situation and circumstances in the first week or so of WW2, these links may give you some additional facts and insights, but the fee is £42 per application.

http://www.1911census.org.uk/1939.htm

http://www.hscic.gov.uk/register-service

Re: Finding out why my Father, Stanley HART & Uncle were NOT called up for WW2 service

Posted: 15 Jan 2014 4:52PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for your prompt reply. The couple are an elderly man and woman. He has a masonic apron marked KOM, a sash with numerous medals and elaborate "cuffs". She has a sash over her shoulder with smaller medals marked DOM.

I will certainly try the sites you mention. I have also found out that the National Archives at Kew hold the records of the Medical Board examinations for 1939 - 1948. I think that this is the medical that conscripts had to attend when called up . There is a 75 year closure so I don't know what I will be alllowed to see and 5456 boxes of stuff !!!!! So I think I'll nned to ask for help before I dive into that one.

Thank you again for your help.

Re: Finding out why my Father, Stanley HART & Uncle were NOT called up for WW2 service

Posted: 16 Jan 2014 7:12AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 3 Mar 2014 1:44PM GMT
Outstanding piece of creative and lateral thinking and research source finding,...a fantastic find, and particularly so as Kew, in common with many such National Archives, is frequently a daunting puzzle palace of a place to search, even just navigating around the Kew site is a pretty nebulous task.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?ur...

Not so sure that it might be necessary to poke around in all of the 5456 boxes files and volumes, and anyway that would be a pretty impossible task, there must have been some form of indexing in use, both for the files of individuals, and for the archives of the various departmental files at Kew.

For male conscripts, there may have been local medical boards in use in different towns and cities and within different local areas within London.

That certainly seems to have been the case in regard to female conscripts.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_q=M...

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_q=M...

A poke around in the related Ministry of Labour records might be productive as well.

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details/C7...

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/s/res?_q=l...

75 year file closure rule, well, it ain't always necessarily so.

Such closure time period rules would have been set for files at the time when they were originally deposited at Kew, but things have moved on since then, and rules and laws have changed.

Subject to the various exemption rules that apply to various files, access to some otherwise time closed files may sometimes be granted upon application, at least to files with a direct family connection, and especially so if the individual to whom the files relate is now deceased, and also if there is not deemed to be any breach of personal privacy in granting access to their files.

http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/foi/default.htm

http://www.justice.gov.uk/information-access-rights/foi-guid...

http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/help/accessibility.htm

http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/legal/our-fees.htm

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/details/C7...

Be warned though, if you poke about too much in the Kew archives, and get too familiar with their records and archival file systems, you may end up as an anorak.! :):)

The furniture, textiles, and fashion, department of the Victoria and Albert Museum in London might be able to give you an opinion on the identity of the regalia in the photograph.

http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/f/furniture,-textiles-...

DOM and KOM might be, Dame and Knight of the Order of Malta.

Although I doubt that in your situation it will be relevant or apply to the context of the following Roman Catholic organisation, but it may well be applicable in the context of Freemasonry.

aka The Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta

Basically a Roman Catholic lay organisation with connections to medical and first aid services, but with historical chivalric origins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Hospitaller

A British branch called the Venerable Order of Saint John aka The Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of Saint John of Jerusalem was the founder of the St John Ambulance Association.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venerable_Order_of_Saint_John

Freemasons do a have a male masonic Knight of Malta degree, and they do wear gauntlets and aprons with KOM on them, the lodge name may also be present but it may not be legible on your photograph, the medals might also be useful clues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_(Freemasonry)#T...

Did they also have a female Dame equivalent ?,...I don't know.

It might also be, the Buffs, aka the Royal Antediluvian Order of Buffaloes, although I'm not sure if they used to have women members back then, but they do have a male degree called a Knight of Merit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Antediluvian_Order_of_Buf...

Of course there were many other such organisations with similar regalia and terminology.

http://www.freemasonry.london.museum/showcase/other-societie...

Your best bet would be to try and scan and post the picture, or to refer it to the Library and Museum of Freemasonry in London

http://www.freemasonry.london.museum/

http://www.freemasonry.london.museum/contact-us/

Re: Finding out why my Father, Stanley HART & Uncle were NOT called up for WW2 service

Posted: 16 Jan 2014 10:38AM GMT
Classification: Query
Many thanks again for the suggestions.

My plan is to contact Kew for help before I visit etc. I also feel that finding out more about my Grandfather's generation may throw up more clues. As a beginner to family history, I thought that I should concentrate on the more recent generation before going further back. It is easy to fly off in lots of directions and get "lost" in Ancestry.

My mum's family have Irish connections and I know that can be difficult to trace. I thought that my Father's family, who appeared to be Londoners, would be the best place for a beginner to start. Little did I know!!!

Do feel that the regalia is Masonic as it looks very similar to some of the modern stuff for sale on Ebay etc.

Re: Finding out why my Father, Stanley HART & Uncle were NOT called up for WW2 service

Posted: 2 Aug 2015 5:23AM GMT
Classification: Query
The masonic link is a red herring. The supply of munitions was vital in wartime and they were clearly in some sort of reserved occupation.
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