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Death certificate for wwII soldier

Death certificate for wwII soldier

Posted: 28 Jul 2015 7:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
I want to order a service record for my Great uncle but don't have a death certificate. I have a photo of the official letter from the Army to my Great Grandmother but I'm not sure if the records office will accept it.
If a soldier is killed in action where do you get the death certificate from?

Re: Death certificate for WW 2 soldier

Posted: 28 Jul 2015 9:10PM GMT
Classification: Query
Was your "Great uncle" a member of the US Military?

Richard V. Horrell
WW 2 Connections

Re: Death certificate for wwII soldier

Posted: 29 Jul 2015 9:52AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 29 Jul 2015 10:38AM GMT
Surnames: Rose Clark Gurry Arkinstall Wheeler
He's British and he's James Edward Rose and obtaining his service record isn't a problem and you don't need to supply any proof of death, because he died whilst in service, it costs £30.
https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-re...

The death certificate isn't a problem if you want a copy, and it costs about £10.
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/

UK GRO...War deaths, Army, other ranks 1939-1948 Rose James E. Rank = Sgt. service number 4911764 unit = A.A.C. year of death = 1944 Volume 16 Page 95.

However, before you get into that, you need to sort out who the correct man is, because there's a big mix up going on here somewhere, because you've got an enlistment document for a man who enlisted in the Devonshire Regiment around 1929 or 1930 and who claimed to be 18 but who was really more like 16 and who claimed to have been born in Darlaston in the Walsall area of County Staffordshire in 1911 but who was really born there in 1913, that is if he didn't also spoof his place of birth.

He enlisted to serve for 9 years with the Colours and 3 years in the reserves.

You also have a notification document about his death in June 1944, or at least about the death of a family member of the same name.

That lists him as Serjeant J.E. Rose 4911764 Army Air Corps, aka the AAC,...his Commonwealth War Graves Commission aka CWGC record lists his unit as 9th Battalion the Parachute Regiment AAC,...that battalion was created in late 1942 from 10th Battalion the Essex Regiment., I wonder if they had a choice in the matter. ! Of course he could have later volunteered or been transferred into 9th Para.

However, in the case of the 1944 man above, and for whom you have the death notification document, which presumably was and is a family possession, both his CWGC record and his headstone list his age as 21, so he was born circa 1923, and there is one birth record which matches a 1923 birth, in County Middlesex, his mother's maiden surname was Gurry, the maiden surname of the mother of the 1911/1913 Staffordshire man was Clark, which matches your records.

You have his father dieing in 1916 and you have his mother listed as Catherine Rose nee Clark, and you have her remarrying in 1955 aged about 65 to Thomas Arkinstall and dieing in Walsall in 1974.

However, your 1944 death notification document was addressed to Mrs. C. Wheeler.

The 1955 marriage was between Thomas Arkinstall and Charlotte. Wheeler

So either his first period of service ended before the war, and he had been in some sort of trouble in the army and had enlisted during the war and had understated his age by 10 to 12 years.

Or the CWGC have made a massive error in his age, which is unlikely,but possible.

Or else you have made an error, and whoever obtained his service record from wherever, may have got the service record for a different man, but it seems that you didn't get it, or at least the first page of it, which you already have, from the MOD.

So where did you get it from. ? If it was obtained from another family member who had got it previously from the MOD it should have the rest of his record as well, but presumably that might have been lost, and if they did get that record from the MOD they may have got the record for the wrong person.

There are a few other oddities about this situation, but I won't mention them at present because they won't help to clarify this matter, and they'll just cause more confusion.

The crucial key to sorting this out is his service record, you have only posted the first page of his record, i.e. his enlistment details, and if you had applied for it from the MOD you would have had the rest of his record, which will list his service and his unit or units, and most crucially it will list his service number, and if you had the rest of the record, you could and should post it here as an attachment, but you say that you haven't yet applied for his record from the MOD.

How you managed to post either of your documents is a mystery to me, because neither of them had a filename extension and they wouldn't open offline when I downloaded them, which I did because documents posted on here are very difficult to read, even when they're posted the right way up.

I added a jpg filename extension and they now open OK in an image viewing program.

http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2344255/ROSE,%20J...

http://image2.findagrave.com/photos/2014/55/56097077_1393366...

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=ro...;

Re: Death certificate for wwII soldier

Posted: 31 Jul 2015 7:57PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for replying and top marks for identifying James Edward Rose as my great uncle. I have spent a few months unravelling James's history.
I knew very little of James story except what my Mother told me - which was her uncle was a Para and he was killed on D-Day.
Now a search of the name Rose on the 1939-45 database reveals only 2 men with the name Rose who were members of the AAC KIA in 44. One was killed at Arnhem and the other on June 8th in Normandy. James Edward Rose.
I was missing the link with Charlotte Wheeler but I knew she was my Great Grandmother and that she lived on a sewage farm in Darlaston Staffordshire because my mother lived with her.
In June this year I took my son to Normandy to tour the beaches as we both have a real interest in the invasion.
Chronologically the place to start is Pegasus Bridge so that's where we started and that's where a big penny dropped.
In the museum on the wall opposite the exit is a panel dedicated to James , it includes a picture and some letters and crucially the notification of his death addressed to C Wheeler c/o the water works Darlaston. I shed a tear I will admit.
Since I returned and with the help of a tour guide, seeing his grave and reading about him in the book "the day the Devils dropped in" I think I solved the riddle.
James was born in 1913 and my Grandfather followed in 1914. My great grandfather enlisted in the Sherwood Foresters in 1914 and was killed in action in July 1916 at the Pas de Calais (Loos Cemetary). Charlotte Rose (nee Clark) re married Archibald Wheeler. When James enlisted in the army he was only 16 (this is a family trait as I've found Jeremiah Rose enlisted at the age of 42 when the limit was 41) he has fabricated a date of birth which makes him 18 years old - why did he do this I don't know and why he has enlisted via the South Staffordshire Regiments office but joined the Devonshire regiment I also don't know, I feel he may have been running away from home.
I'm still making enquiries as to how he left the Devons to join the AAC but I do know that a great deal of the Essex's did not measure up. James has been described as a model soldier so probably volunteered.
As to his grave - I was suspicious that at 21 he could be a sergeant, but if you add 10 years the dates add up perfectly and the rank would fit so it could be pure error. If you read the accounts of the action that he was killed in his date of death is also wrong his is given as June 8 but his patrol included the following men who were also killed in the same ambush, Major E Charlton, LT Parfitt and signaller Courtney are all listed as June 9th.
I am convinced the date mistakes are mistakes but I'm going to need that service record to prove his career.
The curator at Pegasus Bridge has supplied scans of the rest of the documents and pictures which refer to James but unfortunately they don't know which family member supplied them - he thinks another veteran was given them to donate (Don mc Arthur).
I feel very humbled by this man and his comrades and would like his story to be known more widely so he's become a bit of an obsession at the moment. Going to be interesting to prove fully so all help is appreciated.
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