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Prior service indicated at state level?

Prior service indicated at state level?

Posted: 22 Jul 2014 5:31PM GMT
Classification: Query
Ok, this is strange. Never looked at my grandfather's draft record, since I knew he served with the Army Expeditionary Corp (pre-cursor to USAF). The draft card is dated 1917, and says he served in a "state" military in "NY, NY" "10th Infantry" for 3 years 2 months!?

What!?

Is this a record of National Guard service? The state would have records?

Re: Prior service indicated at state level?

Posted: 22 Jul 2014 10:59PM GMT
Classification: Query
Yes. The State Archives should have copies. Do an internet search of NY National Guard and the NY 10th Infantry.
He must not have been a member at time of filing a card as the NY Guard was "Federalized" to serve in WWI in July 1917. If he was an active member of the military he would not have had to file a card.
FYI: The WWII US Army Air Corps was the "pre-cursor to USAF". The AEF were Infantry Ground troops. Now it could be said the WWI American pilots of the French "Lafayette Escadrille" and later became the US Air Service was the pre-cursor to the US Army Air Corps and US Navy Air Wings.

Re: Prior service indicated at state level?

Posted: 23 Jul 2014 1:55AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 23 Jul 2014 1:56AM GMT
Thanks! However, you're wrong about the the pre-cursor to the USAF. My grandfather served in the 255th Aero Squadron AEF, and was at one point a "gunnery sergeant", and wounded in a crash landing with one of the struts going through him. He had three surgeries afterward. The quotes are beacuase his unit was a service unit. Not sure they ever had any combat, he was probably testing out a repaired plane, when they crashed on landing.

His training ground: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Wright_Field

While the AEF included infantry, it also included air corps. These are the true precursor to the USAF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Expeditionary_Forces

I believe he was not stationed with the Lafayette Escadril, as his unit was a service unit.

I've determined he was in Company H out of Mount Vernon NY, during his National Guard Service. He filled out a draft card on 7 Jul 1917, saying he had served 3 years and 2 months, which was probably just before the Ferderalization. He may not have had to fill one out, but I'm glad he did.

Now it makes sense why his basketball team at the time was "Company H", and why he was not playing for the Sacred Heart team in 1914.

Re: Prior service indicated at state level?

Posted: 6 Oct 2014 2:19AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 6 Oct 2014 2:28AM GMT
You're wrong. If you will look at your proof you presented. It was the aero groups you mentioned were under the authority of the Signal Corps (Army). Any thing that had to do with flying came under two entities. The Army or the Navy. The Air Force came later and it was Billy Mitchell who tried desperately to try and establish a separate entity for the Air Force. (He was the real father of your current United States Air Force.) He showed how you could bomb ships from the Air. There was a big show put on by him and the Navy and he was representing the Army in bombing from the Air. The Navy never really wanted to lose there power and control of the seas

The Air Force as late as in the very proof you presented did not get certain permanent residence for some things until 1954. The Army and Navy had control and it was a big battle between them.
There was always a battle for budgets. They maintained a happy relationship. It was the Army who had the most control of the Air and the Air Force came into being out of them and mostly owe it to Billy Mitchel and he caught hell for it. They even tried to court marshal him.

God Bless and God Speed, Danny



Re: Prior service indicated at state level?

Posted: 13 Oct 2014 2:38PM GMT
Classification: Query
You're misinterpreting what I'm saying. I have to disagree with you. Yes the Air Groups were a part of the Army (or the Navy) and I've never disputed that.

My point is that the Air Groups in the Army Expeditionary Force, Aviation Group, Signal Corps (or whatever name you want to use, as it seems it was constantly in flux) are the original pre-cursors to the USAF, out of which even the Army Air Corps of WWII were "born". The air groups of WWI were the first flying units. The bases which they used in the USA became Air Force Bases, or at least the ones that weren't abandoned after the war. The Army Air Corps grew out of these bases, and with every name change/ redefinition/legislative act these bases, people and property went with them. Including the base which became Wright Air Force Base, where my grandfather trained as an Army recruit and was assigned to the AEF Aviation Section.

So the history of the USAF is: Army Expeditionary Force, Aviation Section, Signal Corps -> Army Air Service -> Army Air Corps -> Army Air Forces -> US Air Force.

The timeline being:
[1914 = Aviation Section, Signal Corps][1918 = Air Service][1926 = Air Corps][1941 = Army Air Forces][1947 = USAF]

Note that the Army Air Service began via Presidential Order, and in 1920 by a legslative act.

There is no chart you can create that derives the origin of the Air Force that does not have the Aviation Section, Signal Corps as the root of it. The Aviation Section, Signal Corps had an independent organizational structure and identity. The current USAF traces back to these orignal groups and structure(s), and the Army Air Forces is only the last name, or form, or what have you, of this organization before it became the USAF. Yes, Congress and the Army continually reshaped, renamed, and redefined them, but that is not the point. They are the point of origin. There can be no other.

Best regards,
Brian

Re: Prior service indicated at state level?

Posted: 14 Oct 2014 1:15AM GMT
Classification: Query
The bottom line no matter what is said. The U. S. Air Force was started from the United States Army Air Corps. Case closed.

Re: Prior service indicated at state level?

Posted: 15 Oct 2014 1:06PM GMT
Classification: Query
Actually, no. If you had read my post carefully, you'd have noticed the Army Air Corps ceased to "exist" in 1941, when it became the United States Army Air Force (USAAF), and in 1947, that became the United States Air Force.

But no matter how much you want it to be so, the historical record is quite clear on the fact the they all come from that initial organization, the Army Expeditionary Force, Aviation Division, Signal Corps. My information comes from encyclopedias (Brittainica and Wikipedia), US armed forces histories written by the Army and the Air Force, US armed forces unit histories, and National Archives Personnel Records. You are simply wrong, but I don't seem to be able to convince you of that no matter how much information I post. You have made up your mind and no amount of evidence will probably change that. So we are left with only agreeing to disagree.
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