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Trade or occupation on a marriage certificate

Trade or occupation on a marriage certificate

Posted: 27 May 2015 5:35PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Whitehead, Burnham
I have a marriage certificate from 1920 in Portsmouth. The trade or profession of the groom is listed as ERA Rit (as I read it). When I get home I will scan the certificate and post it here, but thought I would ask if anyone has an ideas what that means?! I am wondering if there is a naval connection as it is Portsmouth, that's why I thought I would try this board!

Many thanks

Andrea

Re: Trade or occupation on a marriage certificate

Posted: 28 May 2015 12:24AM GMT
Classification: Query
He was Royal Navy...ERA = the former Royal Navy rank/rating of Engine Room Artificer aka the nickname of Tiffy/Tiffies...as in "he is a Tiffy...they are Tiffies".

There were different grades of ERAs, first class, second class etcetera, and they would often have been addressed by inferior ranks informally but acceptably, as Tiffy, in much the same way that a Sergeant in the Army may sometimes be addressed as Sarge.

Basically a skilled engineering worker in a ships engine room.

Rit ?,...my guess is that you misread that and that it is really RN = Royal Navy.

Of course some writing of the text on such documents can often be a poorly legible, and there's no point in speculating overmuch about the correct interpretation of what Rit might be, and your intention of posting a pic of the document is a good idea.

These links will give you a bit of info about ERAs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_Room_Artificer

http://thefisgardassociation.org/association/timeline.shtml

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/navy-axes-histo...
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With his name and date and place of birth it may be possible to find his service record.

You can check that out on this link...
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-perso...

Or for service after the early 1920's, here...
https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-re...

Re: Trade or occupation on a marriage certificate

Posted: 29 May 2015 7:57PM GMT
Classification: Query

Great, thank you, lots of help and pointers to work on. I will be home Sunday so will post the marriage certificate soon after, see what you think.

I'm not 100% certain of his birth, as he seems to have been born in Birmingham so I assumed he was a sailor of some sort to have married and had children in Portsmouth. I have what I think is his service record, attached, the date fits, but the place of birth is not clear, I read Small Heath B... and there is a Small Heath area of Birmingham so I am hopeful.

One thing, it seems to make no mention of his marriage in 1920 or the birth of his two boys in 1922 and 1923, would this not have been recorded on this record, was it purely a record of the ships he served on?

Thanks again for your help, much appreciated,

Andrea
Attachments:

Re: Trade or occupation on a marriage certificate

Posted: 30 May 2015 2:08AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Whitehead
No doubt about it, that's his service record, or at least his record for his first period of enlistment, and his place of birth was definitely Small Heath in Birmingham.

There is only one birth registration which matches that information in regards to place and time.

He was born in September but his birth was registered as Fred Whitehead in the October, November, December quarter of 1893 which is fine, because parents have 6 weeks in which to register a birth,...his birth was registered in the Aston Registration District of Birmingham in County Warwickshire as it was then, and at that time Small Heath was in the Aston Registration District.

The birth registration index ledger reference is Volume 6D Page 232.

You can get a copy of his birth certificate for about £10 from either the UK General Register Office http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ or from Birmingham Register Office, which now holds the Aston Registers for that period.
http://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite/certificate?packed...

He enlisted in late 1914, so he volunteered, conscription wasn't introduced until 1916, but he didn't enlist for the duration of the war, he enlisted for a normal term of enlistment of 12 years, after which he had the option to either leave, or to reenlist and serve for a further term of 9 years to complete 21 years service which would give him a maximum pension entitlement.

That seems to have been what he did, and the rest of his service record for his second period of enlistment should be with the MOD.

It's common for RN service records not to mention spouses or children, although doubtless that information was listed on separate documents which either haven't survived, or which haven't been made available, the RN certainly would have recorded that information, for the obvious reasons, and also because he would have a portion of his wages paid regularly to his wife.

His WW1 campaign medals were issued to him while he was serving in HMS Dolphin the RN shore base submarine school. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Dolphin_(shore_establishmen...)

He was awarded the 1914-1915 Star.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1914%E2%80%9315_Star

The British War Medal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_War_Medal

The Allied Victory Medal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_Medal_(United_Kingdom)
Attachments:

Re: Trade or occupation on a marriage certificate

Posted: 3 Jun 2015 10:40PM GMT
Classification: Query
Brilliant! Thank you so much for all the information. And the attachment, it's a medal roll is it? And there is only one Fred ERA on it, so I'm assuming that is him, useful to have his number, it will help any future record searches.

I am home now, so will scan in the marriage certificate over the next few days, but you have probably answered all the questions already!!

Many thanks again for all your help.

Andrea

Re: Trade or occupation on a marriage certificate

Posted: 4 Jun 2015 1:48AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 5 Jun 2015 1:14AM GMT
Yep, it's a Royal Navy WW1 Campaign Medal Roll for enlisted men, and the service number against his name on the roll matches the service number on your RN service record for him, as does his place of service on the service record and on the place of issue of his medal as listed on the medal roll.

His service number M11063 also appears at the top left of the RN service record that you have for him. as well as on the medal record.

The birth registration record for his birth is also a unique match for the birth date on his service record and for your, ( unsourced ), information about him having been born in the Birmingham area.

In other words, the man on the service record and the man on the medal roll are definitely the same person, and he can only be the man who's birth was registered in Birmingham in 1893.

So, to totally confirm that the man on the RN documents is your man, you need to match his age on his 1920 marriage certificate and his father's name and occupation on that certificate, against his birth certificate, and if they match, then he is for certain the correct sailor, and given the nature of his RN job on his marriage certificate and on the RN records, it looks very likely that that he is your man.

Re: Trade or occupation on a marriage certificate

Posted: 5 Jun 2015 4:42PM GMT
Classification: Query
I've just discovered you can't attach pdfs here so unless I can find another way, I son't think I can attach it here, sorry!

Looking at it again though I think you're right, Rit is R.N, I will apply for the birth certificate of Fred, but attach his baptism record for reference. It doesn't say in the document but the register is from Small Heath, Birmingham and his father is Harry a bricklayer so it looks right to me.

Many thanks again for all the information and help,

Andrea
Attachments:

Re: Trade or occupation on a marriage certificate

Posted: 6 Jun 2015 10:21AM GMT
Classification: Query
You can convert PDF format files to jpg image format online, quickly, easily, and for free, on here...
http://pdf2jpg.net/ The original PDF file will not be altered.
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