Search for content in message boards

Samuel Alfred Miles b. 1907 Royal Artillery, India

Samuel Alfred Miles b. 1907 Royal Artillery, India

Posted: 27 Jun 2015 7:07PM GMT
Classification: Query
Does anyone know if there are any records for the men who went to India between 1927 -1934?

My Dad was there and I have his photo after he enlisted, putties and all.

I have no other information, other than he and others marched over the Khyber Pass.

Dad got malaria whilst in India, so when WW2 came he was put into the Home Guard.

Are there any records for the Home Guard that anyone knows about?

Last question: Does anyone know if Home Forces Records site has more WW1 info than ancestry?

Kind regards,

Janet

Re: Samuel Alfred Miles b. 1907 Royal Artillery, India

Posted: 29 Jun 2015 3:01AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 29 Jun 2015 3:05AM GMT
Surnames: Miles
Samuel Alfred Miles born London 21st June 1907...service number 1073153 a bricklayer's labourer, enlisted in Nottingham into the Royal Artillery on the 29th August 1927.

He enlisted for a period of 12 years service, which was to be served as 6 years with the colours, i.e. as a full time soldier, after which he had the option to either continue serving with the colours for another 6 years, or, to become a civilian but with a reservist liability to be recalled to serve with the colours in the event of a war or a national emergency.

On 14th December 1933 after about 6 years and 4 months service, he was transferred to the Army Reserve, i.e. he became a civilian, which was probably as a result of his illness.

So it appears that before he became ill, he had chosen to continue to serve with the colours for the balance of his 12 year enlistment period.

His rank isn't stated, but he was probably a Gunner, which is the Royal Artillery term for a Private.

On 28th August 1939 i.e. at the end of his 12 year enlistment period, he was discharged under
Para 510 ( vii ) KR ( CDTAA ).

That is Paragraph 310 of The Kings Regulations Army and the Army Reserve 1935, which would have been amended in future years, so his discharge would have been made under the provisions of the 1939 edition, which were probably exactly the same as in the 1935 edition.

Para 310 deals with the various reasons for which a person could be dischared from the Army or the Army Reserve.

Sub paragraph ( vii ) of paragraph 310 = " termination of first period of engagement "

The reason for the use of the term, " first period", is because after his first term of enlistment had been completed, and depending on his age at that time, a soldier had the option to reenlist for a second period of service, during which he might serve up to the maximum permitted age.

I'm not sure what CDTAA is, but it might be Coastal Defence Territorial Army Artillery or Anti Aircraft.

He was only 32 when he was discharged in August 1939 and on 2nd September 1939 males in the U.K. between the ages 18 and 41 who weren't otherwise exempt, became subject to military conscription, the following day Britain declared war.

Unless you know otherwise, it might be, that initially at least, and depending on the state of his health during WW2, that he might have served at home in the Territorial Army, although of course if his health had deteriorated and he couldn't continue to serve in the T.A. he might have subsequently enlisted into the Home Guard.

As far as I'm aware, nobody was transferred into the Home Guard, people who served in it enlisted voluntarily.

You can get a copy of his Army service record from the UK Ministry of Defence MOD for £30 and you will need to supply a copy of his death certificate.
https://www.gov.uk/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-re...

If you haven't already got a copy of his death certificate you can get a copy from here,. for about £10. http://www.derby.gov.uk/community-and-living/marriages/regis...

Home Guard records didn't all survive, but any that have survived can also be obtained from the MOD and the application fee for those also costs £30, even if they don't exist.

If I were you I wouldn't apply for a Home Guard record until you have first seen his Army record.

Army records can be quite difficult to understand, but if you post a copy of it on here as a jpg format picture message attachment somebody will probably give you some help with deciphering it.

This is the Royal Artillery Museum, they won't have personnel records, but they do have records about individual units. http://firepower.org.uk/
Attachments:

Re: Samuel Alfred Miles b. 1907 Royal Artillery, India

Posted: 29 Jun 2015 3:33AM GMT
Classification: Query
" Last question: Does anyone know if Home Forces Records site has more WW1 info than ancestry? "

All of the WW1 medal records have survived and they are available on here.

The majority of WW1 service records were destroyed in the Blitz on London in WW2, but the records that have survived are available on here.

Other bits and pieces are also available here and elsewhere.

Questions like that are far too wide ranging to be answered specifically.

It's one thing to ask if a particular set of records are available either on here or elsewhere.

It's a different thing to ask for a comparative critique of the respective extent of the types and quantities of record sets that are available on different sites.

This is a genealogy forum, it's isn't a product comparison forum.

A more relevant and potentially productive approach is to go to the WW1 sub forum and ask a specific question about the person that you are interested in.

Re: Samuel Alfred Miles b. 1907 Royal Artillery, India

Posted: 29 Jun 2015 3:52AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for your help with my Dad, it is much appreciated.

My question was not meant to be offensive with regard to the different sites , apologies for that.

I was hoping that anyone with more experience than I have, and who may have used both sites, would be able to give an opinion.

Kind regards,

Janet

Re: Samuel Alfred Miles b. 1907 Royal Artillery, India

Posted: 29 Jun 2015 3:56AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for your help. This is really great.

Kind regards,

Janet

Re: Samuel Alfred Miles b. 1907 Royal Artillery, India

Posted: 29 Jun 2015 4:11AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 29 Jun 2015 4:15AM GMT
Your question wasn't offensive, and there's always an element of try it and see with any record site that someone pays to use.

If the site that you're talking about is the one that I think it is, then the main set of records which only that site has, and which they've been transcribing in house, is WW1 British Army medical records, which is a large record set, but not all of the medical records have survived for every soldier.

If for example, you were to ask, "would I find a WW1 medical record for the person that I am interested in, on that site ". ? How could anyone properly answer that question, or a similar question. ?

It often just comes down to a matter of try it and see, and nobody who pays to use these sorts of sites got an up front guarantee that they would find what they were looking for on any particular site that they had paid to use.

On the other hand, if you were to ask, " would I find WW1 British Army medical records on this site or on that site " ?, or, " would I find any records about this or that topic, on this this site or on that site " ?,...that would be a different thing entirely.

Re: Samuel Alfred Miles b. 1907 Royal Artillery, India

Posted: 29 Jun 2015 5:31AM GMT
Classification: Query
If your father served in either the Territorial Army, or in the Home Guard, or in both, during WW2, and he only served in the U.K., then he was probably entitled to at least one, and possibly two, campaign medals.

The 1939 - 1945 Defence Medal
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_Medal_(United_Kingdom)

The War Medal 1939 –1945
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Medal_1939%E2%80%931945

WW1 campaign medals were automatically issued to the veteran or to their next of kin.

WW2 era medals had to be applied for by the veteran, many veterans didn't apply for their medals, and if they weren't issued they can be applied for for free by the veteran's next of kin.

Unlike WW1 era campaign medal, WW2 campaign medals weren't inscribed with the name or military details of the veteran.

The MOD Medal Office will be able to tell you if your father's medals were issued.

If they were issued, the usual practice was for them to be bequeathed to the eldest son, or if there was no son, to the eldest daughter.

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/remembrance/how-the-nation-r...

https://www.gov.uk/medals-campaigns-descriptions-and-eligibi...

https://www.gov.uk/the-ministry-of-defence-medal-office
per page

Find a board about a specific topic