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I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

Posted: 5 Aug 2008 11:55AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Rose
My ancestor Henry Rose was involved in the Upper Canada Rebellion (or not, as his crime implies!)
Henry was sent to Australia aboard the 'Maitland', departed Sheerness and arrived Australia July 1840
He was born in Huntingdonshire (UK?) and was a 'labourer and soldier'.
He was tried at an Upper Canada Court Martial on 14th Aug 1839 and was sentenced to life for Desertion.
This is the only information I have on Henry (apart from marriage, children and death). I have obtained this from the NSW Convict Indents.
From this information I think Henry was probably in the British Military.
Can anyone advise me where, how I might find further details, particularly of his trial. Was it the norm for a prisoner to be sent from Canada back to Britian and then onto Australia?
Any assistance greatly appreciated,
thanks, Alison

Objet : I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

Posted: 9 Mar 2010 6:37PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Rose
There were a series of court martial after the Rebellion. I will have to check whether his name appears in them.

The prisoners were first shipped to England from Quebec, and then from England to Australia.

Your ancestor might have been a soldier or in the militia (every man between 18 and 40)

Some men refused to join the Militia and were arrested. But very few were actually court-martialled.

I will check my sources and see what I can find. When did your ancestor get married in Australia or before?

Re: Objet : I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

Posted: 11 Mar 2010 12:04AM GMT
Classification: Query
I have since found that Henry Rose was a private in the British Army, 34th Regiment.
It seems he deserted his regiment about the 11th May 1839, and was recaptured. Although he was hospitalised throughout June, he is stated as still being a deserter until June 26.
Henry married in Australia in 1850 after becoming free.

Re: Objet : I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

Posted: 11 Mar 2010 1:10PM GMT
Classification: Query
Glad you found your ancestor. It looks like in 1839, the 34th was in Montreal, Lower Canada. That might be why I did not find him in Upper Canada court martial.

The 34th was in Upper Canada during 1838 in Amherstburg.

Re: Objet : I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

Posted: 12 Mar 2010 10:34PM GMT
Classification: Query
I have looked again at my copies of the original records that I now have regarding the CM.
They are book lists with about 25 entries, of which each entry takes up 1 line, and written in handwriting 170 years ago are a bit difficult to read. I found them through a researcher at the National Archives London.
The Discharge book states the 'Place where became Non-effective' as Amherstberg, and also that he 'Proceeded to Montreal for Transportation on 7 Sept 1839'
The Court Martial book states he was CM at MALDEN on 14 July 1839.
I am wrong about him deserting in May- I was looking on the wrong lines(entries).
Henry deserted on 25 June and was recaptured on 26 June. He was CM for Desertion, and 'losing his kit necessities', sentenced to Transportation for Life and marked with a D.
The sentence seems harsh as there are other soldiers on his same page, deserters also losing their neccessities, who are sentenced to 1 year or 7 years.
Henrys Australian Convict indent states he had a previous conviction of 6 weeks and this is possibly why he recieved the stiffer sentence.
Can you tell me how long it might have took to reach Montreal from where he was held in the guard room at Malden or Amherstburg?
And thanks for taking the time to reply to me,
Alison

Objet : Re: Objet : I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

Posted: 13 Mar 2010 3:30AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi,
Amherstburg was on the Niagara frontier. Many American Patriot Hunters crossed the border to fight in Upper Canada, which is why there were British Military troops including the 34th in Amherstburg. The trip from Amherstburg to Montreal would have been by boat on Lake Ontario, stopping in Kingston possibly. The trip would have been quite fast depending on the boat. A few days at most.

From Montreal, by boat to Quebec. From Quebec to England, from England to Australia. As I said, many prisoners were sent that route.

Next time I looked at military indexes at the library, I will see if I can find anything in Canadian Archives about Henry Rose.

When you hired a British researcher, did you get the paylist from WO12 for the 34th? It might tell you why he got the earlier 6 weeks. His pay would have been docked and there might be a note.

I am doing a lot of research right now on the 1837 Rebellion, and it is easier to find ancestor on the Rebel side, than on the Army side.

Re: Objet : I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

Posted: 5 May 2010 11:26PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Rose
Hi Ally,

I found your ancestor Henry Rose of the 34th Regiment (attached to 11th Regiment). ON October 11,1839 he was confined in jail in Quebec, and there was a requisition for clothing for him. signed by A Knight Town Major.

On October 22, 1839 there was another requitition for cloting signed by George L. Goldie.

He is described as Military prisoner, does not mention desertion.

While finding him, I also found a Joseph Rose, private of the 32nd Regiment who was also a deserter byt in 1841. There was a reward posted for his capture, but I did not see anything about whether he was caught or not.

Re: Objet : I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

Posted: 9 May 2010 11:08AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello,

It seems this would have been Henry on his way out of the country? (I had to look at a map to get my bearings!)

Every little tidbit is exciting, but to think he must have been cold in the Canadian Autumn (Fall?), although I did read that the 34th crossed Canada during 1838/39 winter in open sleighs with threadbear uniforms.

My London research was a short hourly commission, with requests to find his regiment and next-of-kin. I did get 1 page of the paybook relating to the desertion, but my researcher did not go through Henrys previous 6 years of service to find the other offence.

Can you tell me if Amherstberg and Malden are close to each other?

Thankyou for your time and effort.
Alison

Re: Objet : I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

Posted: 9 May 2010 3:29PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Rose
HI Alison

Amherstberg and Malden are very close to each other. Walkin distance

Amherstberg in on the frontier to the US, very close to present day Detroit, US, but closer toLake Erie.

There was a fort there at the time to guard the border. I believe there were skirmishes with US Patriots doing incursions on Canadian (British at that time) soil.

some of the US patriots hunters were sentenced to deportation as well. Much as been written about them since they were US citizens caught on British soil. Not so much about British deserters. I found quite a few in various regiments, but very few were deported.

I have someone who has done research for me in London for Paylist of regiment and he charged me 5 pounds per year searched, which I thought was pretty good. I got a pretty good idea what my soldiers was doing and his movements.

If I get a chance, I will get a copy of the clothes requisition. I can probably scan it but it will have to wait for a trip to Ontario Archives.

If he was court martialled in MOntreal, he would have stayed in Quebec, waiting for Atlantic ship. He must have left that fall 1838 to arrive in Australia in Spring 1839.

Re: I need assistance re;Upper Canada/Aussie convivt

Posted: 11 May 2010 12:13PM GMT
Classification: Query
From Wikipedia article on 34th Regiment of Foot

The political tensions in Britain and North America of the 1830s appeared in Canada as a series rebellions and border raids from 1837-39. The 34th(Cumberland)Regiment were a part of the 11,000 British regulars sent to put down the rebellions in Lower and Upper Canada. Posted to Fort Malden in Amherstburg, Ontario, Canada during the Upper Canada Rebellion of 1837 they engaged Rebel forces at Peelee Island, Fighting Island and the Battle of Windsor and protected against American 'Hunter Lodges' raiding across the border.

At Fort Malden, a National Historic Site of Canada, there exists today in the smallest of three barracks buildings a full barracks display of that period. During the summertime, local students are hired and instructed representing members of the 34th on the proper drill and deportment in wearing the 1837 British Uniform and perform musket firing demonstrations.
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