Re: Help Identify Uniform - Possibly Austria-Hungary ~1890 Galicia, Sanok
Kicak is surname from Kulaszne
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Re: Help Identify Uniform - Possibly Austria-Hungary ~1890 Galicia, Sanok
< Kicak is surname from Kulaszne > Thank you for that information. Is Kicak the proper spelling there? How is it pronounced?
My grandparents from Kulaszne left there in 1908 (when it was part of the Galacia province controlled by the Austria-Hungary Empire) and were Eastern Orthodox. In early USA census forms they were listed as "Ruthenian" yet they spoke Russian/Ukrainian.
The attached photo is of my grandmother Katrina Kicak and her husband was named Onufer. Does she look like others from Kulaszne? Are names like Onufer and Katrina/Kathryn common there?
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Re: Help Identify Uniform - Possibly Austria-Hungary ~1890 Galicia, Sanok
I am so happy .Wonderful photo! Thanks for sharing. Are you in contact with others who also have ancestry in Wislok? I have lots of information . If you have interest to find out anything let me know. I mentioned that there is a Facebook site about Kulaszne. I also have photos etc. Do you read Ukrainian or Polish? The people and those from West Ukraine, they did not have independent country. Ruled by Austria-Hungary, Poland , etc. There was no country called Ukraine although it existed, That is why Ukrainians were refered to as Rusyn(in Latin/English is Ruthenian) It is origin Kieven RUS. The dialect because the ancestors were in those lands eventually long ago divided by borders away from present day Ukraine, was Ukrainian but also had Slovak and Polish words . Geographical setting. They were not Russian. They themselves did not know how to say who they were ,some called themselves Austrrians others Halychany (Galicia) but never Polish or Slovak. The people were Greek Catholics. In Kulaszne there were no others except the Rusyn people .In 1918 Kulaszne village and 32 other villages were part of the Komancza Republic, they fought for an independent Ukraine. In America and Canada, the Priests they were sent for by the Russians and Poles to quickly convert the unsuspecting Ruthenians not into just Orthodoxy but also to Russian identity......little did they know what was to happen to their relatives later WW2..... But Rusin is not Russian. Russia is Rossiya.....The name Katherine in the Lemko villages was Kataryna and Katya for short. Onufer was really Onufrius in Latin but called Onufriy. I think in English it is Humphry.The people were given names at birth usually according to the Greek Orthodox calendar ,the day when they were born. Please feel free to write and I will let you know or help to find out anything you need. I was there in the villages in 2010 and 2011. I have photos etc. There were quite a few Kicak going to USA before WW1 to the USA. from Kulaszne and few villages surrounding. what was the surname of your grandmother? Any photos greatly appreciated. Can I share them with the Kulaszne people? http://www.apokryfruski.org/kultura/lemkowszczyzna/kulaszne/
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Re: Help Identify Uniform - Possibly Austria-Hungary ~1890 Galicia, Sanok
My grandmother's name was listed as "Katarzyna" on the old ship manifests, but misspellings are common there. My grandfather indeed was also called "Humphrey" after moving to the USA, but still used Onufer as well, that is what is on his gravestone in Frackville, Pennsylvania. My grandfather came to America to get work as a coal miner which he did for over 20 years in Pennsylvania, the oldest sons also worked in the mines there when they were young. What kind of occupations/work was common for people in the 1890-1900 period in Kulaszne?
My grandmother's maiden surname before marriage, has several possible spellings: Raen, Ryan, Rehn, Rhein, Raynard, Rejent - not sure exactly how it was pronounced. They had 13 children over 20 years and a couple were born in Kulaszne. They came to the USA initially in 1900 and had the first son Michael here, then moved back to Kulaszne in 1904 and had the next two children there (son Andrew (Andreas) and daughter Anna). Then they all came back to the USA in 1908 to stay and had the rest of the children: Metro, Anthony, Mary, Katherine, Paul, Peter, John&Tessie(twins), Adam&Eva(Twins) - my mother was Tessie one of the youngest.
The oldest daughter (Anna born 1905) told a story when she was older to some relatives that the family actually had come originally from the white Russia area (modern day Belarus?) before Kulaszne and that Onufer had been drafted into the Russian Czar's army before and they left there when he was to be drafted again. However I haven't found any evidence to back up that story, since his 120+ year old framed portrait of him is in an Austria-Hungary uniform, not Russian and their background (Eastern/Greek Orthodox) matches that of Kulaszne people in that time period 1880s-1900.
Here are a couple more photos of my grandparents when they were older in the USA, Onufer and Katrina. Its fine to share them with other people of Kulaszne. Many of my relatives use the word "baba" for grandmother.
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Re: Help Identify Uniform - Possibly Austria-Hungary ~1890 Galicia, Sanok
Regarding the surname Raen, Ryan, Rehn, Rhein, Raynard, Rejent - where did you find this?
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Re: Help Identify Uniform - Possibly Austria-Hungary ~1890 Galicia, Sanok
<< Regarding the surname Raen, Ryan, Rehn, Rhein, Raynard, Rejent - where did you find this? >> From relatives, gravestone, and other ancestry.com family trees with my grandmother and/or some of her relatives that also came to America around 1900 including a brother, Michael Rehn(?) I think this surname is pronounced like the word "rain" in english, but not sure what the original spelling in Rusyn or Ukrainian would be.
My grandfather's surname appears to have been originally spelled "Kicak" which sounds correct (sounds like Key-sock in english) when pronounced in Rusyn or Ukrainian.
For reference, on the ship manifest in 1900 when they first came to America, my grandparents were listed as "Routhenian" with Greek Orthodox religion from Galicia/Austria, which is where the village Kulaszne was then. In the 1920 US census their mother tounge (language) was listed as Greek/Ruth.. and in 1930 census it was listed as Ukrainian. "Sonak" was also listed, perhaps the equivalent of the county where Kulaszne was?
My mother years later thought they spoke Russian around the house, but probably couldn't tell the difference between the east slavic languages of Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian, and Rusyn. In Frackville, Pennsylvania the family went to the Russian Orthodox Church a couple blocks down the street from their house which is on the old Julian calendar - so my mom remembered they celebrated "Russian" Christmas on Jan7 each year and had our own family keep our Christmas tree and decorations up for 2 weeks after Dec 25.
I also read the Rusyn people around 1900 living in the area near Kulaszne (modern southeast Poland near Slovakia and Ukraine border) worked as farmers, sheepherders in the small villages? Is there any common food recipes from that period in that area that they might have continued to serve for meals after moving to America? I have a living 78 year old cousin who remembers eating some meals at grandmother's house growing up in Pennsylvania and special dishes she prepared to compare. Grandmother Katrina lived until Dec 1962.
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Re: Help Identify Uniform - Possibly Austria-Hungary ~1890 Galicia, Sanok
OK so your grandparents they were married back in the old country before they went to America?The surname of your grandmother, was she also from Kulaszne? The surname original is spelled Kicak and in Ukrainian "КИСАК". There are several of them on my old USSR address list for Ukraine.but I am also wondering how you pronounced it since there is also "Kitsak" sounding and this is КИЦАК spelling.....With regards to the ethnic origin.well, my mother went to Canada after WW2 already. My Grandparents and Uncles were forcibly deported to USSR in 1946. so I have different knowledge than those who went before WW!. They did not know what was to happen to their entire nation and how the Russians and the Poles and the Hungarians and the Germans and the Czechs and Slovaks lied to them..... It was a big mess .those that arrived before WW1 and WW2. The people called themselves Rusyny. Rusyn is Ruthenian in Latin English. It comes from the original origin which was Kieven RUS. The villages surrounding Komancza like Kulaszne and 32 other villages n 1918 they formed the Komancza Republic and fought to join with independent Ukraine but failed. They did not have a country or army...ruled by Austria,Hungary Galicia/Poland.....But when our ancestors went to America , Moscow wasted no time in sending their Russian priests to quickly convert them into not only Orthodoxy but also Russian identity. The people did not even understand what was happening! Anyway. the Lemko dialect is not Russian sounding. It is old Ukrainian but because of the geographical setting also Slovak and Polish words. These lands were after hundreds and hundreds of years divided away from the original kingdom of Kieven RUS and as you can see today, is still being Russified by the Russians. The people from our villages who were not deported in 1946 to USSR and instead were deported to North Poland 1947. They were also Polonized, or at least there was that goal by the Poles. The villagers in our area were not Carpato Rusyn ,those are the ones who are in Slovakia .It is a historic mistake, that confuses many. The word Rusin, Ruske, Ruski this is not Russian. Russia is with 2 ss and is Rossiya, Rossiske Russke.===I would love to hear about your 78 yr old cousin and what is remembered about the past in the villages. Please find out about the food.especially at Christmas Eve. Jan 6.also any old photos... Yes Sanok was the county for Kulaszne. As for language also remember that there was no Ukraine since the later 1600's so that is why for the language stated Ruthenian and the Ukrainian people also wrote Ruthenian,the ones part of Galicia(Halychyna)/our lands too were Galicia(. Only Ukrainians that were not part of Galicia were ruled by Russia.===As for the food, remember these were poor farmers,some did better than others but because t hey were ruled by Austria-Hungary and then the Poles , our ancestors were treated very very badly, oppressed. The rulers made things impossible for them to get ahead and imposed taxes on everything but nowhere to earn money. Even to fix the house it was required to have a permit in ones own land forest. The foods were simple. They lived off what they planted. Hardly ever any meat or eggs. Grains, Vegetables,Bread, Fruit. This is the main reason that thousands went to USA and Canada on a smaller scale and other countries before WW1 , to earn money to send home . But when WW1 broke out no one was allowed to leave and also no one to go back home....Our ancestral lands, the land was not easy to farm. There were sheep everywhere. The soil was not good, to this day, no Poles farm there. Only our people knew how to do this...Now there are mainly cows that give milk and trucks collect.those few who live there still....Also just last , our ancestors origin religion since yr. 988 was Greek Orthodox. This is when Christianity was adopted from Greece in Kieven RUS. In late 1500's the Poles they wanted to destroy the Ruthenian culture,wipe it out gradually. So some Priests they changed the religion from Greek Orthodox to Greek Catholic so they would answer to the Pope of Rome. This caused one the divisions amongst our people. It was done on purpose.but the damage still seen today, the great divides. But the liturgy was allowed to remain the same.since 1784 this is fact.Here is a fantastic 1852 map of Kulaszne. It is posted from the Przemysl State Archive.Dorf Kulaszne in Galizien Sanoker Kreis [Mapa wsi Kulaszne w Galicji w obwodzie sanockim]
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Re: Help Identify Uniform - Possibly Austria-Hungary ~1890 Galicia, Sanok
Thanks, yes I have read a lot about the Rusyn history and of that region. Yes my grandparents were married prior to coming to America but probably only shortly before they came over first in early 1900 via steamship thru a port in Germany when they were probably only 18 years old (grandmother probably even younger). They had the first son Michael in America in 1901, but possibly had a stillborn set of twins in 1902-1903 and then came back to Kulaszne in 1904 - perhaps my grandmother missed the old home and relatives still there? Then they had another son Andrew and daughter Anna in Kulaszne 1904-1906, but then the whole family traveled back to America via steamship again in 1908 to stay.
On the ship manifests, their surname was also spelled "Kicak" which in polish would sound like "Keet-sock" but would sound like "Kee-sock" in ukrainian I believe. However its unknown how the name was spelled in the old country, if they could even read/write there, except perhaps seen on gravestones there? So it could have possibly been КИЦАК.
Once in America their were many different spellings used on documents, early on "Kitsock" was used, but later it became "Kessock" or "Keysock" so its hard to know how it was originally pronounced in the old country - probably only my grandparents would have known since their children only knew "Key-sock" and if fact my mother taught us how to say her family name with this: "its like a KEY in the door and a SOCK in the face" - she would hold her hand in a fist when she said that...
Indeed there was probably some polish words that were used, like "baba" for grandmother, unless that is the same in Ukrainian?
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Re: Help Identify Uniform - Possibly Austria-Hungary ~1890 Galicia, Sanok
Your grandmothers surname is driving me crazy. Another man just wrote that his family had surname form Kulaszne ,.that they spelled in USA as Regent! But those surnames can not be correct.It was common for the folks to go back home too. in case there was some hardship over there or perhaps life was not good in the USA. Some places in USA were not really nice and jobs really hard...I had also ancestors that went back an forth......They made some money for the homestead and to buy things they needed.There was no where to earn wages in the old country since the Poles and Austians were oppressive rulers. Ok so if the surname was pronounced Keesock then the surname was not КИЦАК.because that was' Kitsak". Also Baba for grandmother is Ukrainian. more later...
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Re: Help Identify Uniform - Possibly Austria-Hungary ~1890 Galicia, Sanok
Its possible that my grandfather's surname could have been originally pronounced "Kitsak" because I saw in the earliest USA census they were listed (1910) they spelled the name as "Kitsock" - later it was spelled as Kessock or Keysock, perhaps they just simplified the pronounciation of the name since their children only knew it that way in the years after. So I can't be sure since only my grandparents would have known for sure, but my grandfather died in 1927, my grandmother in 1962.
Regarding my grandmother's maiden name, I found some copies of marriage licenses for some of my grandparent's children (my aunts and uncles) going back as early as 1921 for the oldest son, and they fill in their mother's maiden name on that form. On those forms, the name is spelled in several ways in handwriting: Ryan, Rayon, Reyn, Rhin, Rayn, Rhein. On my grandparents gravestone in the Orthodox cemetary in Frackville, PA its spelled "Ryan"
I just did an online Ellis Island database search with various spellings of that name, and I found an entry for "Michal Rejent" arrived 1907 from Kulaszne, Austria, a Ruthenian age 24. That matches my grandmother's brother who came to America too from Kulazne, so I think thats him! So at least on the ship manifest the name was spelled "Rejent" how would that be pronounced in Ukrainian or Polish and what might the proper spelling in the old country be?
There are several other Ellis island listings for people with last name "Rejent" that were listed as Polish or Russian too, plus a few others listed as Ruthenian from Skalat,Galicia Dorofijowko,Galicia and Ozerna. Also Kidalowice, Austria was listed for a Polish woman with that name.
Its possible that man who told you spelled their last name as "Rejent" in the USA that came from Kulaszne, might be related to my grandmother's brother, sister or possibly others in her family that came over to America?
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