Hello, John, I wanted to add that James Gardiner's daughter, Emma Gardiner, bapt. 1809 Redbrook, Newland Parish, Gloucestershire, married Robert Martin, b. 1803 Castletown, Isle of Man (see 1841-1881 Liverpool census). I am their great great granddaughter. So the nieces in the 1861 census are members of this Martin family. The oldest Gardiner daughter was Mary Gardiner who married Capt. George Allen in Liverpool. In 1832 Mary, George, Emma, and Robert sailed to Yarmouth, Nova Scotia, on Capt. Allen's ship. Robert, the Liverpool building contractor, built a house for Mary and George that still stands. Emma and Robert Martin returned to Liverpool and are in the 1841 census (Emma is in Cheshire). Mary and Capt. Allen remained in Yarmouth where they were instrumental in bringing the Methodist church to that town. Mary's family papers say that her father was a Methodist lay preacher of some renown. Her death record on novascotiagenealogy.com says her father was a ship's chandler. Provision dealer is given in the definition of chandler. He is most certainly not the Wine merchant. The James Gardiner who was the wine merchant is on a jury in 1865, too old to be my James Gardiner. The James Gardiner who lived in Abercromby Square d 5 May 1891, again too old to be my James Gardiner. The James Gardiner who was a ship's biscuit baker is alive in 1843 and 1860. I am still looking at all the entries on FindMyPast in the newspaper section as well as studying the website, Gardiner Family History, you recommended. The children baptised in the Pitt St. Wesleyan Chapel are surely the children of my James Gardiner. Some Martin in-laws were also baptised there. However, some Martin children were baptised at St. Peter's and at least one, James Gardiner Martin, was baptised at both churches! The James Gardiner who is in the 28 Nov. 1834 Liverpool Mercury article who is a leader and member of the Methodist church is most certainly my ancestor. His grandson, James Gardiner Martin, was also at that meeting. I have a photo of James Gardiner standing at a podium holding a sheaf of papers, very likely his sermon. This photo is dated 1854. The baker and provision dealer in 1827 at 4 Kitchen St. may be my man. I have unsuccessful so far in trying to locate David Favager. If anybody knows how to reach him, I would be very grateful. Shirley