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Trying To Determine Maiden Name

Re: Trying To Determine Maiden Name

Posted: 25 Dec 2013 9:41PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi, John.

It never occurred to me to look at other pages of the census that listed them. Frances Baker, eh? That's interesting and something that I am going to look at. From what I can tell, after Frances Wagner died, Nathaniel Wagner went to Knoxville, PA, where he died. Nathaniel Wagner was the grandfather of my maternal grandfather. My maternal grandmother's father was named John Baker, and was born in Knoxville, PA. I'm thinking there might be some kind of link there. Thanks for pointing me in a good direction. I'm annoyed at myself now for missing this. You've done in a few minutes the kind of detective work that I've been trying to do for days.

Jeff

Re: Trying To Determine Maiden Name

Posted: 26 Dec 2013 10:48PM GMT
Classification: Query
What technique did you use to find them in 1892? I have tried both Nathan* Wag* and Franc* Wag* and neither of them show up in the ancestry.com search.

Re: Trying To Determine Maiden Name

Posted: 26 Dec 2013 11:53PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Jeff,

Search under "Nathaniel Wagoner"...they are living in Bath, Steuben County, New York.

Laurie

Re: Trying To Determine Maiden Name

Posted: 26 Dec 2013 11:56PM GMT
Classification: Census
Edited: 27 Dec 2013 2:55PM GMT
Hi
They are there in Bath Town. You should be able to see them on Ancestry, if not then the 1892 NY is also on the Family Search website for free

"New York, State Census, 1892"
Name: Nathaniel Wagoner
Event Type:
Event Date: 1892
Event Place: Bath Town, E.D. 01
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Birthplace: United States
Birth Year (Estimated):1851
Citizenship Status: Citizen
GS Film number: 0512430
Digital Folder Number: 004369935
Image Number: 00023

Peter Baker still in Lindley, and son Samuel, no Mary or Frances, can't see Nathaniel's mother?
John

Re: Trying To Determine Maiden Name

Posted: 27 Dec 2013 12:29AM GMT
Classification: Query
My main concern is why when I use a wildcard search such as Nathan* Wag* for searching the 1880, 1892, 1905 results on ancestry.com I don't get him. Wag* would cover Wagoner and should return the 1892 entry so that I can link it to my tree. Either I'm not using the search tools properly or they aren't very effective. It's very frustrating, especially since you've already confirmed the data is there but I can't get it to come up.

Re: Trying To Determine Maiden Name

Posted: 27 Dec 2013 12:31AM GMT
Classification: Query
As I stated in my other post, if I was doing this without assistance I wouldn't be looking for Wagoner. I want to understand why Wag* as a last name doesn't return the Wagoner result. I want to be able to use what I learn through this experience on other searches, but I'm concerned that the database tools aren't reliable.

Re: Trying To Determine Maiden Name

Posted: 27 Dec 2013 1:51AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Jeff,

As you proceed on with your genealogy research, you will find that some search engines are more forgiving than others. Ancestry.com doesn't seem to like wildcards and it shows other names that really have nothing to do with your search parameters...and too many results and you become frustrated and think you are doing something wrong.

Most of the time when I am using Ancestry.com, I have my settings on "EXACT MATCHES ONLY." If I don't have any luck with those parameters, then I change my settings to soundex and get more results, and more results mean more scrolling!

When I typed in the name "Nathaniel Wagoner" with EXACT MATCHES ONLY, the entry for the 1892 census showed up.

Also remember that because your name is now spelled "Wagner" does not mean that it has always been that way. Census takers, clerks and other officials spelled names how they sounded to them. The most educated citizenry were the ones that recorded "Official Records" and if the populace didn't know how to read or write, how were they going to tell the "officials" their name was incorrectly spelled. Sometimes you just have to pretend you don't know how to spell!

Good luck with your searches.
Laurie

Re: Trying To Determine Maiden Name

Posted: 27 Dec 2013 2:23AM GMT
Classification: Query
I suppose that I'm going to have to try to stop looking at this stuff from a 21st century perspective. As someone who does a lot of work with computer data for a living I instinctively expect something that's spelled one way at some point to be spelled the same way at a later time. Out of curiosity I decided to search for Nathaniel Wag* on FamilySearch. My first search using a wildcard there was successful, showing me Nathaniel Wagoner in the 1892 New York census, so I'll keep in mind your advice about using wildcards on Ancestry. Thanks for teaching me these things!

knoxville pa, randall martin, fred thurber

Posted: 12 Jan 2014 1:15AM GMT
Classification: Query
did your nathaniel wagoner serve in the civil war? because this info pertains to that nathaniel wagoner. and have you serdhed his pension records for spousal info?

this doesnt solve your puzzle, but it is fun if above is "your" nathaniel
www.fultonhistory.com has free newspaper archives. i found one blurb on a nathaniel-and followed it to see if he was "yours" Nathaniel Wagoner of
Westfleld, Pa., spent last week
at tlfo home of his niece, Mrs.
Randall Martin. He left Monday
for Meridian to visit his daughter.—
so search mrs randall martin, you find that she is fred thurbers daughter. he lives in knoxville pa.careful many people of the same name in those newspapers-but in the wrong cities. and yes- think "less structured" if u have no birth cert, no soc sec number, no drivers license, no credit card-your birth date, name, etc can be a lot more fluid. u can be who ever u want. optical search engine sometimes confused by ink blobs, wrinkles, fading, mis -set type etc- search carefully, creatively.
here is one
Corning NY Evening Leader 1921 Feb-Oct 1921 Grayscale - 0026.pdf
...at thw home of his father. Murray Met- calf.—Mrs. Fred Thurber of Knox- ville, Pa., and brother Nathaniel Wagoner, of Westfleld ...
obit of nathaniels niece shows she is his sisters daughter-
Deceased's maiden
name was Lena Caroline Thurber
and she was born May 11, 1881
at Lindley, N. Y., the daughter of
Fred and Alice Wa(gner) thurber (the parenthesis were there in the original-which would have, of course, skewed the search) corning paper dec 19, 1934
Corning NY Evening Leader 1934 Oct-Feb 1935 a Grayscale - 0676.pdf
...they have resided in this place. One son Carl T. Martin; her fath- er Fred Thurber of Cowanesque; one brother, George Thurber of Horseheads; one sister, Mrs. Su- san Morton, of Westfield ...

remember-married women were usually "mrs randall martin" or "mrs r j martin" until abt the 1920's. not mrs lena martin unless a widow.

Corning NY Evening Leader 1953 Grayscale - 0472.pdf
...COWANESQUE. Pa. — Carl T.
Martin, 53, died at the Robert
Packer Hospital in Sayre, Friday
following an illness of one week. The son of Randall J. and Lena Thurber Martin, he was born in Knoxville. January 14. 1900. He ...

then i went to joyce tice wonderful site-
NATHANIEL WAGNER
Nathaniel Wager, aged 81 years, died April 10, at the home of Mr. And Mrs. Sylvester Bell, in Westfield. The funeral was held Wednesday, under the auspices of the Masonic order, of which he was a member. He was also a member of the Baptist church and of the G.A.R. He served four years in the civil war. Rev. Mr. Mathews, of Harrison Valley, officiated; interment at Knoxville. He was a brother of the late Mrs. Fred Thurber, whose funeral was held May 10. (The Agitator: Wellsboro, PA, May 20, 1925) http://www.joycetice.com/obitcemt/riverobtt.htm
Inscription:
CO. D 157 NY INF CIVIL WAR (he is in the veterans census 1890)


Burial:
Riverside Cemetery
Knoxville (Tioga County)
Tioga County
Pennsylvania, USA
findagrave http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=wa...;

so marriage record may be with baptist church-there are still lots! of things not online-may need to search film, fiche, libraries etc

Re: knoxville pa, randall martin, fred thurber

Posted: 12 Jan 2014 5:40PM GMT
Classification: Query
Wow, that is awesome. That is definitely the right Nathaniel. From what I've found he moved in with his Thurber in-laws after the death of the his wife. Or at least that's what the clues I've seen look like. Yet, with all of the information out there on Nathan, I still can't find any piece of evidence to link him to any particular woman as his wife. I know her name was Frances and I have suspicions about who she was, but in doing my due diligence I'm looking for anything that refers to his wife's maiden name or any record of him getting married. Thanks for these sources and pieces of data. They will be very helpful in trying to fill in the blanks in this part of my ancestry.
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