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Richard Rich - Hampshire origins

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Richard Rich - Hampshire origins

gillian1210  (View posts) Posted: 9 Mar 2011 2:28PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 29 May 2011 4:57PM GMT
Surnames: Rich
I’m researching the Hampshire roots of Richard Rich, mercer and Sheriff of London, d 1464 or 1496, and of the other Richard Rich, c1497-1567, Henry VIII’s execrable Lord Chancellor of “Man for all Seasons” fame.

Richard Rich the mercer was the son of Richard Rich esq of London, who died in 1415, according to Wotton’s ”Baronetage of England” (1771), and was the son of "John le Rich of Rich’s Place, Hampshire, son of Robert le Rich t Edw III (1327-1377), son of John le Rich of Rich’s place, t Edw II (1307-1327)". This lineage has been copied into subsequent accounts of the family, but has it ever been verified? Can this impossibly vague “Rich’s Place Hampshire” be identified?

For Lord Chancellor Rich two conflicting accounts of his parentage have been produced. One is that he was born in London, the son of another Richard and great-grandson of Rich the mercer. The other is that he was born in Basingstoke, the son of John Rich of Penton Mewsey, Hampshire, who died about 1509, and Agnes his wife.

This is where the story gets fascinating, but mystifying.

The Penton Mewsey connection
The Rich family of Andover did indeed have property in Penton Mewsey, Andover, but at a very much earlier date. The family were long established as merchants in Andover. In 1270 Alexander le Riche represented all English wool merchants in delicate negotiations with the Flemings who bought their wool. In 1277 Alexander and Thomas le Riche of Andover were granted licences to export large amounts of wool, which they bought from farmers from Cricklade to Somerset, through Southampton. Both Alexander and Thomas were very prominent and active in merchant gild matters in Andover . In 1278 Thomas le Riche of Andover and his wife purchased land in Penton Mewsey, while Alexander and Philip le Riche, another active merchant, bought fields in Andover.

It looks as though the next generation - consisting of a John le Riche with a brother Thomas, who may be the same as John, son of Philip, with a brother Alexander - wound down the Andover operations. In 1319 John le Riche is the last member of the family to be mentioned in the gild rolls. Other local surnames continue to recur through the generations, but the Riches are gone. Old Thomas died, and young Thomas le Riche sold the property in Penton Mewsey in 1322. John, presumably the son of Philip, sold the field in Andover in 1329.

There are occasional sightings of Riches in Hampshire after that – a John le Riche witnessed a deed at nearby Freefolk in 1326 and a Thomas le Riche one in Andover in 1333 – but there are no signs of activity and no known record of family property in Penton Mewsey after 1329.

Speculations
It seems likely to me that these Andover wool merchants are the ancestors of Richard Rich the mercer, and I wonder if other researchers agree. It would be apt for Richard Rich to be apprenticed as a mercer if his family were in the cloth trade as wool merchants. I can find no other Riches in Hampshire, or almost anywhere else, at that period. The dates for John le Riche of Andover match with Wotton’s John of the reign of Edward II. I speculate that the Riches moved from Andover to London, perhaps maintaining a country home in Hampshire. The only people called Rich that I can find in London at that time are a John son of John le Ryche in 1318, and John le Ryche the elder and younger in 1389.

I’m wondering if anybody has more information about early Riches, of if there is any proof of the existence of a John Rich of Penton Mewsey in 1509 and his wife Agnes.

Sources
I can provide detailed sources if anybody responds to this thread.

Re: Richard Rich - Hampshire origins

rkrich  (View posts) Posted: 14 May 2011 11:23PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Rich
I would be interested in learning more about your sources. The DNB changed his parents to "John and Agnes" in the 2004 edition. I had hoped to hear from the author but he did not respond. D. L. Jacobus admitted in his intro in TAG that the family lines were obscure so he used the 'generally accepted pedigree.' It was wartime and documents were not as easily available. However, many people accept TAG's genealogy of this family and don't bother looking further. Thanks.

Re: Richard Rich - Hampshire origins

gillian1210  (View posts) Posted: 22 May 2011 9:48PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Rich
Early Riche family in Hampshire

Alexander and Thomas le Riche were wool merchants of Andover, Hampshire, at a period when cloth-making was the mainstay of the town. The merchants of Andover were organised into a closely regulated gild, whose records have largely survived. The Riches were well established in Andover; Thomas inherited his gild membership from his grandfather Thomas Breghe(1), while Alexander sponsored another local relative into the gild (2). Alexander and Thomas seem to have been of the same generation, as ‘sightings’ of them cover much the same period (Alexander 1270-1284, and Thomas 1277-1298), so they were probably brothers or cousins.

It looks as though Alexander was the older of the two, or at least the more successful. He had a large-scale operation, bringing his wool from Wiltshire and Somerset as well as the Andover district(3). He was prominent in 1270, when the wool export trade was going through a difficult time: the merchants traditionally sold their wool to the Flemings, but the government had forbidden this in an attempt to impose sanctions on the Flemings for polical reasons. Alexander le Riche was appointed to a 4-man commission charged with investigating to what extent this law was being broken all over England (4), and he was chosen to act for the community of English merchants in the protracted negotiations with Flanders (3). Alexander and Thomas were granted licences to export their wool through Southampton in the 1270s, for which they had to swear that they were not dealing with the Flemings (5). Alexander had a licence to export 80 sacks of wool in 1277, and Thomas only 30 sacks (6).

Alexander bought fields in Andover (7) and there is no further sign of him. Philip le Riche, probably his son, bought more land in Andover in 1291, part of the South Field (8), and rose in importance in the gild 1291-1307(9).

Meanwhile, Thomas le Riche married Alice Durdant, the daughter of the lord of nearby Penton Mewsey, and settled on land granted to the couple by her father in 1278. Alice stayed on there after Thomas’s death (10), and then, probably when she too died, Thomas junior, presumably their son or nephew, sold the property in 1322 (11). There is no further known record of the Rich family at Penton Mewsey (10), which makes it very mysterious that some historians claim that Richard Rich, Henry VIII’s repellent Lord Chancellor, was the son of John Rich of Penton Mewsey, d.1509 (12). (Other historians claim that Lord Chancellor Rich was the great-grandson of Richard Rich, mercer and Sheriff of London (13).)

Back to the 14th century: in November 1318 Johannes le Riche gave his ‘gild’ to his brother Thomas(14), and the next month ‘Johannes filius Ph. le Riche’ gave a ‘gild’ to his brother Alexander (15). That is the last mention of the Rich family in the gild records; other local surnames recur through the generations, but the Riches are gone. It isn’t clear whether these both Johns mentioned in 1318 refer to John, son of Philip, but it seems probable: if there had been two of the same name active in the same year, the father’s name would surely have been given on each occasion to distinguish them. John le Riche sold land in the South Field in 1329 (16) – presumably the land bought by Philip in 1291 - and that is the last known sighting of John le Riche.

After John and Thomas le Riche sold up in Hampshire, and the Riches vanished from the Andover gild records, I can find no further trace of the family. It seems to me very likely that John de Riche of Andover or Penton Mewsey moved from Hampshire to London and is the “John le Rich, of Rich’s Place, Hampshire, flourished about the reign of Edward II [1307-27]”(17), who is given in all pedigrees of the Rich family as the ancestor of Richard Rich, mercer and Sheriff of London, who died about 1464.

Sources
1 “The Gild Merchant Vol II”, Charles Gross 1890, page 291 (ttp://openlibrary.org/books/OL13522599M/The_gild_merchant)
2 Ibid, page 289.
3 “The English Wool Trade in the Middle Ages” T.H. Lloyd 2005 page 53 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=u6d-s9_7yOMC&pg=PA53&...)
4 Ibid, page 33.
5 Calendar of Chancery Rolls, Licences for the exportation of wool, page 14 (http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924026113880/cu31924026113...)
6 Ibid, page 7.
7 The National Archives 1M53/145 (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=041-...)
8 Ibid, IM53/1416
9 Gross op.cit, pages 269, 297, 298, 300.
10 'Parishes: Penton Mewsey', A History of the County of Hampshire: Volume 4 (1911), pp. 381-384. (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=56835)
11 A Descriptive Catalogue of Ancient Deeds: Volume 3 (1900), pp. 340-351. (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=64349)
12 For instance: “Rich, Richard, first Baron Rich (1496/7–1567), lord chancellor, was born at Basingstoke, Hampshire, the son of John Rich (d. 1509?), of Penton Mewsey in Hampshire, and his wife, Agnes;” P. R. N. Carter, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography (http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/23491)
13 For instance: “RICH, RICHARD, first Baron Rich (1496?–1567), lord chancellor, second son of Richard Rich and Joan Dingley, his wife... The family was of Hampshire origin, and the chancellor's great-grandfather, Richard Rich (d. 1469), a prominent member of the Mercers' Company, served as sheriff of the city of London in 1441.” Dictionary of National Biography (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Dictionary_of_National_Bi...)
14 Gross, op.cit., page 312
15 Gross, op.cit, page 313, where the date “in festo Concepcionis beate Marie Anno Regni Regis Edwardi xiio2 is wrongly glossed as 1319 instead of 1318.
16 The National Archives 1M53/1417 (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=041-...)
17 “Baronetage of England” Wotton et al 1771 (http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=z6W35JBfgQAC&pg=PA393...)

Re: Richard Rich - Hampshire origins

1court1  (View posts) Posted: 19 Feb 2012 12:25AM GMT
Classification: Query
I'm a direct descendent of Richard Rich through one of his daughters, Winifred. Ask me anything about them.

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