I need some help dating a 100-year old English studio portrait of 3 children, please.

The faces don't seem to match any other old photos of my family that I have, so I was wondering whether somebody could say something about the approximate date from what the children are wearing (or any other clues). If I had an approximate date, then it would narrow down the possibilities so much.

A reduced resolution version of the (rather faded) photo is attached, and full resolution is at http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy174/Holdcroft/Genealogy...

A reduced resolution version of the printed postcard back is attached, and the full resolution version can be seen at http://i789.photobucket.com/albums/yy174/Holdcroft/Genealogy...

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,

James.

Hi James,

There are some websites that specialise in this.

www.rogerco.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/time/date.htm

Have a good browse as its not the most logical of layouts.

I would say given the plain postcode back that it is not Victorian but later.

Judging from some photos I have which I have been able to date as I know the sitters and instinct I think early 20th century perhaps from 1905 to 1910. Looks like quite a relaxed photo. Girls dress is very loose and unornamented and has a big collar strucks me as very Edwardian. The boy's dress is perhaps harder to date.

There are some good books available as well so it might be worth seeing if your local library can get hold of.

Hope this helps

Amelia

Amelia,

Thanks very much for your advice and pointers. I have already browsed around quite a bit, but I lack the experience and knowledge to be able to interpret the details.

Your date of 1905-1910 is consistent with what I was beginning to suspect based on other information. Strong candidates are some of my grandmother's siblings:

Tom Hubbard (1899-1931)
Sarah Ann “Sally” Hubbard (1895)
Charles Ernest Hubbard (1897-1923)

There are others, but the relative ages don't seem to fit. I have other later (c1918) photos of Tom and Charles, but they are not similar enough for me to be sure. I have a 1923 photo of Sally, and again the similarity is not enough for me to be sure.

When I first saw the 1923 photo of Sally, it reminded me of my mother Gwen. Interestingly, a child photo of Gwen is strikingly similar to the girl who could be Sally.

I attach all the photos discussed above.

I'd be very interested to hear from anybody that has an opinion based on the similarity of the faces compared with the later photos.

Thanks,

James.

Hi James,

I am think that the young boy in the first photo is the same person as the young man in what looks like a naval uniform with his head tilted back. Eyes are the same shape, very dark with heavy lids, Proportions of the face look right as well.

Amelia

Sorry its late - the young boy on the far right of the first photo!

Amelia,

Thanks very much for your opinion - it matches my thoughts. The face in naval uniform is of Charles Ernest Hubbard, born 30 Nov 1897, and the photo was taken some time during WW1 - my guess is about 1918. I attach my only other photo of him, taken probably about 1916.

If the boy on the right is Charles, then that narrows down the possibilities a great deal for the other children. The full list of Hubbard siblings is:

Clara (Abt Aug 1884)
Frederick William (Abt Aug 1886)
Annie (8 Apr 1888)
Emily Jane (Abt Nov 1890, died 1893)
Dorothy May (Abt May 1893)
Sarah Ann (Abt May 1895)
Charles Ernest (30 Nov 1897)
Tom (Abt Nov 1899)
Daisy (24 Mar 1902)

In terms of how old the children look to be, then Tom and Sarah Ann would be the strong candidates.

You didn't comment that the face of the young man with the tie (Tom) matches the boy on the left in the original photo. To me, the overall shape of the face matches, but the eyebrows seem to be different. Eyebrows can move, of course. I also attach my only other photo of Tom, taken in 1923. Again I reckon that the overall shape matches, but the eyebrows don't. What do you reckon?

Frederick William Hubbard, born 1886 is far too old to be the boy on the left in my original photo. Interestingly, however, his face from 1918 (attached) would seem to be a good match.

Hi James,

From your list of children it doesn't seem like there are any other possibilities. I considered whether the girl could be Daisy but there does not look to be five years of age between Charles Ernest and the girl. Surprising perhaps that Daisy is not in the photo as well?
My instinct was that the boy on the left was older but looking at their clothes I think Charles Ernest looks to be wearing a slightly more 'grown up' outfit which would fit in with the other boy being the younger Tom.
If you dated the photo to say 1907 that would make Sarah Ann 12, Charles Ernest 10 and Tom 8. This is feasible I think.
I agree that Frederick William looks very much like the boy on the left but I think some peoples faces change much more from childhood than others. It is clear there are very strong family resemblance as well. The photo is so faded that I think it is hard to see exactly what the boy on the lefts eyebrows look like especially as he is so pale in colouring.
The only other possibility I could see is that they are not three siblings but three cousins I presume that this can be discounted? If so I think you have got them identified correctly.

Amelia

Amelia,

Thanks again for your opinion. It's always good to have an independant view.

Yes, I agree that it is perhaps strange not to have other children such as Daisy in the photo.

The boy on the left is slighly smaller than the boy on the right, which would be consistent with him being slightly younger.

I can't completely discount cousins - there are so many, and I have no comparative photos, but based on our discussion, siblings seems to fit.

Sarah Ann's children are still alive, so I hope to ask them for an opinion in due course, after which I will report back here.

James
I don't know if you are still trying to date the p/c of the children, but the Post Office allowed for the first time, in 1902, pictures on the front of the card and message and address on the back. Manufacturers started putting vertical lines down the middle of the back in September 1902. I also noticed a code number that looks like 96P to the right of the words POST CARD, which may mean something to an expert. Anyway, your children are no earlier than September 1902.

ChudleighMungall,

OK, thanks very much. It's good to know that a date of 1907 (from the picture content) is consistent with the postcard back.

It is clearly "96P" on the back. I have looked around on the Internet for what this might mean, but to no avail.