Search for content in message boards

Don Alonso de Estrada, Duke of Aragon

Royal Connection

Posted: 5 May 2001 12:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 22 Jun 2002 3:23PM GMT
Surnames: Don Alonso de Estrada, King Fernando
John Inclan:

I strongly believe that there is no Royal connection between King Fernando and Don Alonso de Estrada.

Many of us were let to believe and were given the impression that Alonso was an "hijo natural" of the King. Studies, however, tend to show that Alonso's father in fact was Juan Hidalgo Hernandez.

Jerry

Don Alonso de Estrada, Duke of Aragon

John D. Inclan (View posts)
Posted: 5 May 2001 12:00PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Estrada, Gutierrez, Caballeria
Search for infomation on the Royal connection to King
Fernando,(the Catholic) and Don Alonso de Estrada.

Re: Don Alonso de Estrada, Duke of Aragon

Michaelangelo Carmona-Renaud (View posts)
Posted: 12 Apr 2004 8:40PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Estrada-Aragon
According to Carl Duane's book 'With All Arms' and several other historical and genealogical references, Alonso de Estrada was the illegitimate son of Fernando El Catolico. Manuel Morales Munoz's book 'Los Altamiranos' states that Alonso, "who was the natural son of Ferdando El Catolico, Rey de Aragon, by the account of several historians and so recorded in the Holy Inquisition (of which I plan to research this summer 2004 in Madrid) Historical Archives of the Nation in Madrid Testimony 1501, No. 17...."

Re: Don Alonso de Estrada, Duke of Aragon

Posted: 31 Dec 2008 1:33AM GMT
Classification: Query
I have researched this topic extensively, and I also concur that the records are pretty conclusive that Don Alonso de Estrada is the son of Fernando El Catholico. A DNA match can further confirm an already long list of historical documents.

Re: Don Alonso de Estrada, Duke of Aragon

Posted: 10 Apr 2010 2:25AM GMT
Classification: Query
Did you go to Spain and find those papers on Alonso de Estrada? I do not have the opportunity of going to Spain, but since I am an descendant of Alonso de Estrada, I would be very interested in your findings. Please contact me at: ladyml59@yahoo.com

Re: Don Alonso de Estrada, Duke of Aragon

Posted: 9 Apr 2011 2:59PM GMT
Classification: Query
I have been to Spain, lots of times when I was in Palma I went sight seeing in this huge church. What I saw blew my mind away, one of our family shields. However, I have conducted extensive research of my mothers family duque de Estrada. The next time I visit Spain I will go and visit the tower and stay at the palace which is a hotel now. Good luck in your reseach!

Re: Don Alonso de Estrada, Duke of Aragon

Posted: 26 Sep 2011 6:14PM GMT
Classification: Query
Did you ever to look into the documents regarding Don Alonso de Estrada?
I am leaning toward the fact he was the King's son as well..

If you have anything to share it would be great to post it here so we all can share info thanks! :)

Re: Don Alonso de Estrada, Duke of Aragon

Posted: 26 Sep 2011 6:18PM GMT
Classification: Query
I was wondering where you found your info and why you think Don Alonso de Estrada was the King's son. I am leaning toward the fact he was indeed the King's son as well but any reference info toward documents you have looked at would be fantastic.

Re: Don Alonso de Estrada, Duke of Aragon

Posted: 27 Sep 2011 5:57AM GMT
Classification: Query
Was at the Inquisition archives and they had no idea where to find the info. I dont know how they have it set up and my spanish isnt "up to par". I hope to return next year and attempt to locate this document....even if i have to take my book.

Re: Royal Connection

Posted: 26 Feb 2012 3:12PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello there thank you for posting this :) I think the studies of Norbert and Esquivel are being referred to as indisputable proof. However there are many flaws in the studies reviewed and are scientifically unreliable.

It is without a doubt in my mind it was understood by the inquisition Alonso de Estrada was the illegitimate son of the king within his lifetime. It was accepted by the Inquisition as such a claim would have been researched
throughly in Spain. The excerpt states that Alonso was the "king little love sin".

I look forward to seeing the original Spanish document and the translation.
I think it is important to be not just translating documents to English. But approach the documents from an anthropological point of view which involves the understanding of not only the documents translation but what they mean within the time they were written, for whom they were written for, and the culture in which they were written.

Not to do so is basically making sweeping generalizations given our own personal understanding of cultures through our eyes and our point of view.
I am surprised at Nobert and Esquivel! This is Cultural Anthropology 101. Any documents given must be looked at from the historical understanding of that particular culture and timeframe given the study of the linguistics of the time etc.

Such as the Spanish tradition of placing natural born children with close relatives and raised as their children particularly aunts or cousins without children. Without this historical cultural knowledge it could be assumed that this child is a direct blood child because they share the same household.

At present we are being asked to assume:

1. Assume a lowly ranking Hidalgo of no station happened to catch the attention of the King or court and took him from his small town as a child to be placed in the Royal Court to be raised. Why? Historically not correct under the caste system. There is no documents to support he was ever raised with Juan Estrada and an unknown woman.

2 Assume given his Hidalgo ranking he was given the second most powerful position in the realm and he was personally in the service to the King himself. Again historically inaccurate as positions would only be given to high ranking aristocrats. Why this special treatment?


3. Assume a low ranking Hidalgo would have been sent to the New World to act as overseer of the equally hotheaded arrogant Hernan Cortes and the interests of New Spain. (Hernan Cortes had already proved himself in the New World as a conquistador if you know about Cortes he desipsed being having anyone questioning his judgement of jurisdiction in the New World including the King himself!


4. Assume Cortez accepted Estrada's boasting as his overseer even though he was his inferior?

Estrada is well documented as one to remind people of thier station in relation to his as he would publicly say he was the son of the King he must have had this standing for Cortez not to fly off the handle. Estrada and Albornoz were both guilty of creating an unstable environment for Cortes's enemies due to this attitude. The Mexican civil war shakes up all of Mexico. (Estrada and Albornoz relationship a good read)

4. Assume that Alonso would not have likely taken his mother's name? This again is historically inaccurate. It is very weak evidence as with illegitimate children it was common for the children to take their mother last name or the last name of the child's grandparents.


I think the testimony of Mari Hernandez Hidalgo should be looked at again and taken for what it is a second third hand account of a woman attempting to show purity of blood for the Inquisition. She even says it was told by her relatives. So we are standing on the testimony of someone at a much later date who not only does remember Estrada's mother's name but claims to be kin of some sort.

Even in Cortes's time a deputy once annouced to Cortez in New Spain "that it was shocking thing to have the honour of a family depend on allegations of 3 or 4 witnesses who heard rumors on his grandfather's or grandmother's side was more or less strongly suspected of having jewish origins." This seems to be common place in the New World. (Source) pg. 56 By Joseph Pérez

The Academy of Mexican history states: " that Alonso occupied a very important position in Spain and later Emperor Charles V named Alonso de Estrada the royal treasurer of New Spain (Fernandez del Castillo 398). It is not difficult to see that it was a link between appointments to high positions of government in Spain and New Spain and birth into high ranking aristocratic families. "

There is more evidence that he was indeed the son's illegitimate child of the the King than he was not and was proved as such during his own lifetime according to the historical documents. I thought it intresting as a side note Alonso's two children one named Luis Estrada the other daughter Luisa perhaps after Luisa Estrada his supposed mother?

I really hope to start a discussion on this.









per page

Find a board about a specific topic