Please would someone suggest a way ahead for me to find my Granny's grandfather? Most leads have come to a grinding halt & I'm stuck.

His name was Carl Wilhelm Frederick SCHREMPF, he was born in Germany about 1833 (family said his birthday was 30 August), his father's name was Frederick. Place names the family have given me include Frankfurt am Maine and Mannheim so I don't know which, if either, is correct.....

About 1854 he emigrated to America, I have presumed alone. There is a record for what could be him on the "Parthenia" arriving New York on 10 January 1854 from Le Havre, France may be him, but I don't know.....

This first real info I have is that met Ann Everiss before 22 August 1854 because we have a copy of a love poem to her (she had arrived in New York in 1853). They married in Paterson, Passaic, New Jersey on 27 May 1855. I have a copy of a registration entry, & can see the minister's name but cannot read it - Rev ?Twain or ?Irwin... and no church name....

They moved to Toledo, Ohio. We know he travelled around a bit on business trips because we have copies of some letters in the period 1857-1859. A Toledo directory of 1858 shows he ran a music store.

In the 1860 census the "Schrimp" family was living in Toledo, Ohio, with Charles, Anna & the 3 girls all born in Ohio. I have a copy of the record, but cannot make out the name of where he was from - could be Hessen.....

I don't know what church they belonged to, & gather that there was no civil registration of births in Ohio in the period 1856-1862. ...

In October 1861 he joined up with the Union (?Ohio Volunteers) at Camp Dennison nr Cincinatti. We have further letters from him in the following few months, but he died about Feb or March 1862, probably at Camp Clifton nr Kanawha, West Virginia. No-one has yet been able to find any unit, burial or official record for him though we have tried several different Civil War sources.....

His wife Anna went back home to England, remarried, then came here to New Zealand, & seems not to have got any pension, so I presume no rension record....


So lots of leads but I seem to have run out of options in the US, so wondered if there is anything anyone can suggest direct from Germany. I see there have been helpful comments on this list about sources in Germany and immigrant ships lists, but they all seem to need info about where in Germany. Perhaps someone can give me some advice on new sources - this year is the year to get this fellow a home & two parents!

Please excuse me if I've made mistakes with geography or history - most of the American place names have been new for me, let alone the German ones.

Many thanks, a long query....
jo

I have a soft spot for Kiwis (I used to live in Auckland/St Heliers), so I'll try to at least give you a few leads. You have a far-ranging question, not quite sure where you want to head or what you want to find out.

Was he born into the Catholic or Protestant/Evang. church? When checking civil war records, you must try every conceivable spelling of the name...if he died as you say, there should be a record someplace of that or his unit. [I assume you've seen http://www.ohiohistory.org/onlinedoc/civilwar/sa0147/31_02.c... ] Frankfurt is in Hessen, Mannheim is not. There's probably a Toledo or Lucas County Roots Web message board. Good luck.

Many thanks Chris for your reply. I go through St Heliers most days...

As you noted, I don't know where to go next, each path I've gone down has come to a grinding halt. I want to find where in Germany he is from, his date of birth, his parents names & family, whether any other family members went to USA, etc.

I don't know what sort of church - but I suspect that it was Protestant of some variety. His wife was not Catholic in England or when she was in NZ, but that's slim evidence!

Several people have tried searching many different spellings for his surname in various Civil War lists, but no luck so far. It is possible he was a bandsman I suppose.

I was hoping that maybe a German source might yield something.

Jo, German churches in the United States tended to keep rather detailed records, so it is quite possible that Carl and Ann's church marriage record would include the name of the town in Germany where he was born. You already have the key and needed piece of information right there in front of you, namely, the name of the clergyman who performed the ceremony. So you are somehow going to have to decipher his name. With his name, you would then be able to find out what church he was pastor of and then contact the church and request a copy of the church marriage record.

Is the copy of the registration entry that you have the state registration entry or the county registration entry? If it's the state registration entry, then you should request a copy of the county marriage record from Passaic County. If what you have is the county registration entry, you should request a copy of the state marriage record from the New Jersey State Archives in Trenton, New Jersey. On one of the two, the clergyman's name should be readable. Like I said, you HAVE the key piece of information in your hands already. You simply have to really study that clergyman's name and decipher it.

Robert

Generally speaking, to find a German birth record you need to know the town/church the person came from. In some cases, regional city or church archives [Stadtarchiv, Kirchenarchiv] have collected copies from the individual churches [eg, all the parishes around Flensburg have copies of their vital records in the Rathaus]. You also will probably need to be able to read/write in German, and read the old German script....unless you hire an English-speaking researcher...not cheap, but it can very effective if he/she is looking in the right archiv. [I assume you've interrogated the LDS site looking for Carl ad nauseam]. The Germans have a fetish for keeping records, so chances are reasonable you'll find something if a war hasn't destroyed it. From what you've said, I'd be inclined to look in the Frankfurt/Hessen area....this http://members.cox.net/hessen/table.htm is a good starting point, depending on your experience with German genealogy searches.

Yeah...All Blacks!

Robert, thank you for that advice.

The best we can do in deciphering his name is Rev W Tunian or something very like that. I am reasonably sure he was protestant of some variety - Presbyterian in USA probably. If he were Catholic it is likely his children would have been brought up as Catholic - they were not, and his widow's death certificate had her as Presbyterian.

That being the case, and if we are thinking of Frankurt area, are protestant records for births about 1833 there likely to be gathered into one place? And indexed perhaps ...?

I did not realise that two civil marriage registers were kept - a state one and a county one. I suspect mine is the latter since "State of New Jersey" is printed on the form title, & Paterson & Passaic entered by hand. I got it from an LDS film (the only one I have ever ordered), and I did not think to keep the number of it - lesson learned.

Thanks for your help,
jo

Jo, in Germany, records are kept strictly at the local level. It would be like looking for a needle in a haystack if you don't know what city, town or village Carl Schrempf was born in.

You seem to feel that he might have born in Frankfurt am Main (Frankfurt on Main, that is, on the River Main). There is only one problem with that theory: The 1860 census indicates HESSE as place of birth. Well, Frankfurt was not located in Hesse. Frankfurt was a Free City (like Hamburg and Bremen still are). So if the 1860 census is correct in indicating Hesse as Carl Schrempf's place of birth, he could not have been born in Frankfurt. (Following the Second World War, Frankfurt did become part of the new postwar state of Hesse, which bears no resemblance to anything prewar, but Frankfurt was not in Hesse back in the time period you're interested in.)

It's very frustrating, because chances are that the information you want is in the marriage record on file in whatever church it was where Carl and his wife got married. The most important piece of information of all on that marriage certificate you can't decipher.

So at this point, it's hard to know what else to say. Should anything occur to me, I will let you know.

Robert

Robert

Such a fount of information! Many thanks indeed, for that and also for taking the time to look up the census record. I was reasonably sure but not completely sure that Hessen was what it said, though it is wrong saying that Anna was also from Hesse - she was from Gloucestershire.

But I certainly did not realise that Frankfurt am Maine wasn't always in Hessen, so that has saved me from some dead-ends. Are Hessen & Hesse just two variants of the same region (German vs English perhaps?).

I will go chase some LDS films.

Thanks you so much,
jo

Hi
I can't really give you any further information,but let you know that Carl Shrempf is my direct Gret Great grandfather His daughter Annie Matilda is my grandmother, Keitha's, mother. I think the Shrempf family,or part of it,where in America before Carl's emigration as I remember talk about family connections in Philadelphia.They were musicaland connected to the Philadelphia Philharmonic Orchestra.I wll dig a little this end and see if I can come up with more information foryou. We do have the family crest somewhere.
Any help?

Hi Anne

We are second cousins - ie my grandmother was Keitha's sister. Hello!

I too had heard those stories about the orchestra, but all I can find is that they married in New Jersey, he ran a music shop in Toledo (3 daughters were all born there), then he went as a sutler to the Civil War in West Virginia where he died March 1862.

I have largely accounted for Carl's time in America since his arrival in Jan 1854, but have found no record of any involvement with the Philadelphia orchestra. If you can find something I'd be delighted!

There were other S[C]HREMPF families in the USA about that time, but again I've found no connection between them & our fellow. There are stories about Anne running off with /to him, & certainly they knew each other before they met up in New York in August 1874, but I don''t know how they had met as yet.

Anything more I'd be delighted to hear! Which family crest do you have - SAXTON, EVERISS, or SCHREMPF or ....? And am happy to share. I would really like to find his German / Hesse family.

Cheers,
jo