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John August Engman or "Gust Engman"

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John August Engman or "Gust Engman"

ablg67  (View posts) Posted: 19 Apr 2012 12:04PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Engman, Engvall
I am trying to find any information on my great grandfather's ancestoral line. His birth name was Johann August Engman, but he went by "Gust Engman". He and his wife Hulda J Unknown, emigrated to the US prior to 1896. His birth date is August, 1864-1867.

Gust's parents were Franz Adalf Engvall, who was married to Hellena/Hellen Unknown. They were born in Sweden and also emigrated to the US. Their birth dates are approximately 1820 and 1825.

Gust's and Hulda's daughter was Olga Victoria Engman (Bradley), my grandmother. They had 9 children, all born in the US. One child died as a child.

Thank you,

Amy Lindgren Gfesser (ablg67)

Engwall/Engvall

JOBaouab  (View posts) Posted: 19 Apr 2012 2:56PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 19 Apr 2012 4:20PM GMT
1880 Swedish Census CD:

Engwall, Frans 1820 Father
Jönsdotter, Anna Lena 1825 Mother
(Barn), Johan August 1864 Child
(Barn), Karl Edvin 1866 Child


Record 1880-6-87-833

Engwall, Frans
Torpare

b. 1820 in Voxtorp (Jönköpings län, Småland)

Man, married, father

Nybygget
Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

Place of birth (in the database): Voxtorp Jönköpings län


Record 1880-6-87-834

Jönsdotter, Anna Lena

b. 1825 in Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

h.
Woman, married, mother

Nybygget
Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

Place of birth (in the database): Svenarum Jönköpings län


Record 1880-6-87-835

Johan August

b. 1864 in Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

s.
Man, single, child

Nybygget
Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

Place of birth (in the database): Svenarum Jönköpings län


Record 1880-6-87-836

Karl Edvin

b. 1866 in Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

s.
Man, single, child

Nybygget
Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

Place of birth (in the database): Svenarum Jönköpings län


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Emibas CD:


Johan August left Sweden using his father's last name of Engwall/Engvall and not with a last name of Engman.

He was not married at the time of emigration.

Post 222708

Engwall, Johan August
Dräng = farmhand. (unmarried man)

b. 8/9/1864 in Svenarum, Jönköpings län (Småland)

Emigrated 4/20/1889
from Långserum Nybygget, Svenarum, Jönköpings län (Småland)
to Nordamerika

Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 153

Emibas migration file ID: Svenarum F 1889 005

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Emihamn database:

First name: JOHAN
Last name: ENGVALL
Age: 25 Gender: M
Parish: SVENNARUM County: F
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1889 05 03 (May 3)
Destination: KENSINGTON
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 38:570:144


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1890 Swedish Census CD:

Engvall, Frans 1820 F
Jansdotter, Anna Lena 1825 M
Svensson, Frans Edvin 1880 Ch


Post 1130837

Engvall, Frans
Inh. Arbetare

b. 1820 i Voxtorp (Jönköpings län, Småland)

Man, married (father)

T.Nybygget
Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

Place of birth (original source): Voxtorp


Post 1130838

Jansdotter, Anna Lena

b. 1825 i Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

h.
Woman, married (mother)

T.Nybygget
Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

Place of birth (original source): Svenarum


Post 1130839

Svensson, Frans Edvin
barnhusbarn = "orphanage" child

b. 1880 i Stockholms allmänna BB (Stockholms stad, Uppland)

s.
Boy (child)

T.Nybygget
Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

Place of birth (original source): Stockholm län barnbördshem

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The age is *****way off***** for Frans and Anna Lena, but this appears to be the emigration of the parents of your Johan August. (The departure date works well with the departure from their parish, as shown on the Emibas CD.)

Emihamn database:

First name: FRANS
Last name: ENGVALL
Age: 60 Gender: M
Parish: SVENARUM County: F (Jönköping)
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1891 06 05 (June 5)
Destination: GRAND RAPIDS
Fellows: JA
Source: 45:282:6034

First name: ANNA LENA
Last name: ENGVALL
Age: 55 Gender: K
Parish: SVENARUM County: F
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1891 06 05
Destination: GRAND RAPIDS
Fellows: JA
Source: 45:282:6034

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Here they are on the Emibas CD database, with their birthdates.

Post 222750

Engvall, Frans
Married man

b. 6/6/1820 in Våxtorp, Hallands län (Halland)

Emigrated 5/25/1891
from Långserum Nybygget, Svenarum, Jönköpings län (Småland)
to Nordamerika

Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 153

Emibas migration file ID: Svenarum F 1891 009



Post 222751

Jonsdotter, Anna Lina
Married woman

b. 7/3/1825 in Svenarum, Jönköpings län (Småland)

Emigrated 5/25/1891
from Långserum Nybygget, Svenarum, Jönköpings län (Småland)
to Nordamerika

Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 153

Emibas migration file ID: Svenarum F 1891 010



Judy

Karl Edvin Fransson Engvall

JOBaouab  (View posts) Posted: 19 Apr 2012 3:01PM GMT
Classification: Query
Emibas CD:

Post 222692

Engwall Fransson, Karl Edvin
Unmarried man

b. 11/13/1866 in Svenarum, Jönköpings län (Småland)

Emigrated 9/11/1888
from Långserum Nybygget, Svenarum, Jönköpings län (Småland)
to Nordamerika

Source: Household Examination Roll, p. 153

Emibas migration file ID: Svenarum F 1888 022


Emihamn database:

First name: CARL E
Last name: ENGVALL
Age: 22 Gender: M
Parish: SVENNARUM County: F
Port: GÖTEBORG
Date: 1888 09 21
Destination: NEW YORK
Fellows: NEJ
Source: 37:33:23584


Judy

Re: Karl Edvin Fransson Engvall

ablg67  (View posts) Posted: 19 Apr 2012 8:44PM GMT
Classification: Query
Judy,

Thank you so much for all of the information! I will tell my mother and her 4 living siblings. They are in the 80s and 90s. The Engmans/Engvalls live/lived in the Grand Rapids area.

When it says, Emibas CD, is that something that you have purchased, or is it available online?

Thank you so much again for your help!

Amy

Re: Karl Edvin Fransson Engvall

JOBaouab  (View posts) Posted: 20 Apr 2012 1:23AM GMT
Classification: Query
The Emibas CD is an index of registrations in the Swedish parish to go to a foreign country. It is about 75% complete.

Yes, I purchased the Emibas CD a few years ago. It is sold out, but there is no need for you to feel badly that it can't be found. The information you need has already been provided. ;-) You won't find any more on those people from that index.

The main source of information is in the actual parish record books, which are online for a fee, on these sites.

http://www.genline.com

http://www.svar.ra.se

http://www.arkivdigital.net

The world version of Ancestry.com also has scanned Swedish parish records.

Judy

Re: Karl Edvin Fransson Engvall

ablg67  (View posts) Posted: 20 Apr 2012 1:41PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you so much, Judy, for the links to the other sites. I have the international membership for ancestry...I do not speak or read Swedish though :). A friend of my parents reads and speaks Swedish, so I will try to get help from him for translation.

My mom's mom and my dad's dad were 100% Swedish. These families emigrated here in the 1800s. I have a lot of written info from a Great Aunt (still living) on my dad's side. My mother's side has been a big mystery (the Engvalls), especially b/c of the maiden name issue.

Thank you so much for helping me to start to solve some of the mystery.

As a teenager, I visited Hamneda, which is where my paternal GG was born (Frans August Petersson). I have also visited the land (area) where the Engvall's house may have been. (Frans Peterson/Petterson changed his name to Frank Lindgren at Ellis Island.)

Thank you, again!

Amy

PS I am still not understanding who was an orphan in these records. Karl Edvin Engvall was Johann August Engvall's younger brother. I wonder where the Fransson came. I will have my Swedish friend look at it.

Re: Karl Edvin Fransson Engvall

JOBaouab  (View posts) Posted: 20 Apr 2012 4:23PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 20 Apr 2012 5:25PM GMT
"I do not speak or read Swedish though :)"

The vast majority of the people on this board (including myself) are not fluent in Swedish. We still manage to get huge amounts of information from the Swedish records, and if we cannot decipher something, we ask for help on the board. The Swedes are very willing to help out.

There are guidebooks, such as "Cradled in Sweden" and "Your Swedish Roots". They will help you out. In addition, the records are mainly written in a set pattern, and it won't take long before you've learned a few of the most commonly used words.

This person was labeled as a childhouse child (orphanage child). He was clearly labeled so I don't understand why you can't figure out who the orphan was.

-----------------------
Post 1130839

Svensson, Frans Edvin
barnhusbarn = "orphanage" child

b. 1880 i Stockholms allmänna BB (Stockholms stad, Uppland)

s.
Boy (child)

T.Nybygget
Svenarum (Jönköpings län, Småland)

Place of birth (original source): Stockholm län barnbördshem
----------------------------

"I wonder where the Fransson came."

Fransson comes from the fact that Karl Edvin and his brother Johan August were sons of Frans. (Johan August also could have used Fransson in addition to the surname Engvall but he didn't do that in the transcribed records I found.) Fransson literally means Frans' son, son of Frans. Ingela Martenius has written an excellent and very informative article about Swedish naming customs. (She is one of the Swedes who help us.) You need to understand these customs or you will end up researching the wrong lines.

http://web.comhem.se/~u31263678/genealogy/Names.pdf

Names were not changed **AT** Ellis Island. That is a very common myth. Google "Ellis Island names changed" and you will find many articles. Here are just a few.

http://genealogy.about.com/od/ellis_island/a/name_change.htm

http://www.genealogy.com/88_donna.html

http://www.bloodandfrogs.com/2011/05/name-changes-at-ellis-i...

http://www.nyarrivals.com/ellis_island_experience.html

http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2012/04/no-fa...


http://blogs.archives.gov/online-public-access/?p=762

and many more...;-)

"My mother's side has been a big mystery (the Engvalls), especially b/c of the maiden name issue."

The Swenson Swedish Immigration Research Center might be able to help.

http://researchingswedishroots.blogspot.com/2011/09/swenson-...


Look for the marriage record, for example, and also hope that they joined one of the Swedish American churches. The membership records for some denominations (especially Lutheran and Covenant) should provide a full name, full birthdate, and parish of birth in Sweden. Much of the information I know about my Swedes and those who married them (parish of birth; births, marriages, confirmations, funerals in the U.S. until about 1930, etc.) comes from the Swenson Center. It is a fantastic archive!

"A friend of my parents reads and speaks Swedish, so I will try to get help from him for translation."

He will be a good resource, but if he hasn't done genealogical research in Sweden, he might have problems with the archaic words used in these records. (I go every year to the Swedish American Genealogist Workshop in Salt Lake City. One year we had a Swedish relative of one of our "regulars" join the workshop, and that person told us all in the beginning that she would be glad to help out with the records. At the end she told us that she was surprised at all the archaic words. She also said that she was surprised that so many of us knew the archaic words that she didn't know.)

There are sources of help for these archaic words (which even the Swedes have to learn.) For example:

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~swewgw/Fact/Dict/facdic02....

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/RG/frameset_rg.asp?De...

This tells how to get into the Swedish records on the world version of Ancestry.com.

http://researchingswedishroots.blogspot.com/2011/09/getting-...

It is MUCH easier to get information from the Swedish parish records than it is to research in the U.S. and most other countries, even though the language is not English. Most people new to research in Swedish records think it will be difficult but it really is not. Be grateful that you have Swedish ancestors. You will learn much more (and more quickly) than other people without Swedish ancestors. I went years ago (before online Swedish records) to Salt Lake City's Family History Library with a genealogy friend with Polish ancestry. I found far more information in just one hour than she did in the week we were there. I think she was a bit jealous as I kept getting up to copy one page after another after another. Just make sure you keep up with the sourcing (where the records came from, etc.) and entering of the information in a genealogical program on your computer. You will get so much information so quickly that you will soon forget what you've found and where you found it if you don't keep up with the boring bits such as recording the information and the sources.

Judy

Re: Karl Edvin Fransson Engvall

ablg67  (View posts) Posted: 20 Apr 2012 9:20PM GMT
Classification: Query
Judy,

Thank you SO much for all of your encouragement and help!! I was raised in the Covenant Church in Madison, WI. When I was a child (I was born in 1967), there were many families with Swedish last names in our church. That has changed a lot at the Madison church.

My father was raised in the Swedish Covenant Church in Lanyon, Iowa. There is a story that his grandmother, Dorothea Johanna (Andersdotter) Goranson (I am not sure if I have the married name spelled correctly...it was changed to Johnson in English) walked miles to start the church or get to the church.

You have provided an avenue and encouragement for digging deeper into my Swedish heritage..thank you so much!!!

Amy

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