Hello everyone,
I posted a similar message to the Netherlands mailing list earlier this week and this one will be forwarded to the same list, so I apologize for the duplication.

After searching this Gelderland message board for Beest, Beesd, Bever, Beaver and 1661 I see that there are several others who have ancestors that likely traveled with Pieter Marselis and family on the ship Bever in 1661 to New Jersey and/or New York (New Amsterdam). We would like to make contact with those researchers if possible. The names are Barbara Carlson, Daniel Gamber, and Carrie K. but the posts are from back in 2000 or shortly after. If you are still around and read this, or you know how to contact any of these researchers, please respond here (or email me at bradish dot p at gmail dot com) so we can make contact and hopefully exchange information.

In about 3 weeks we will be in Amsterdam for several days and want to find out if research for the following family is feasible, and if so, where to go.

We are interested in learning about where records would be located and researched for Beest (now Beesd) in Gelderland for the 1600's. We are looking for Peter Marcellison (Pieter Marselis) who left on the ship Beaver (de Bever) with his wife, 4 children (13, 6, 4 and 2 years old) and 2 servants in 1661 for the new world (New Jersey or New Amsterdam) along with others from Beest (Buys family, Jacobsen family, 2 Cornelis widows with children, Van Noort, Bries, Jans and Theunissen, relationship unknown).

Is there an individual, society or institution we should contact for information or guidance?

Thank you for your time and efforts. They will certainly be appreciated.

Take care... Peter and Connie Bradish

The best way to find information and to get in contact with researchers is: http://www.hkwb.nl/contact_adres.html
That is the society for local history of Beesd, with a department of genealogy.
You will find on this page the sentence:
"Klik hier om een e-mail te sturen". That is:
"Click here to send an e-mail".

Dear Harrie Lamers,

Thank you very, very much. I have just sent an email to the society concerning the whereabouts of the records we seek. Hopefully they will be able to tell us what we want to know. Now I need to go use a web translator to see what else might be on the society's web site.

You and others have been very helpful and we appreciate your efforts.

Take care... Peter and Connie Bradish

I see you don't have any command of Dutch and even not a command of the old Dutch in which the old records are written. Then the address of the 'Historische kring West-Betuwe' will be good.
Another option: install Google Chrome and the page will be translated from Dutch into English.

Well, you gave me an idea. I'd been copy and pasting text from the hkwb.nl web site into Google Translate. Your thought about using Google Chrome caused me to remember I'd seen something in Google search results about translating a web page so I went back to Google Translate and saw what I'd been missing ever since starting to use it. Just above the box where you enter the text to be translated it says "Enter text or a webpage URL, or...". I'm now viewing the hkwb.nl site with Firefox with all the Dutch translated. :-) Much easier. Now I'm going to use this to look at archieven.nl again.

Yes, I have no Dutch language skills and at age 68 its unlikely that I'll learn another foreign language. I'm just happy it's now much easier to translate what's on the web than using a dictionary. And, I'm always appreciative of those like you who help out.

Thanks again for your help and opening up my mind about Google Translate. Take care... Peter Bradish

Now you can read Dutch in translatioin, I give you a hint on the catholic baptismal registers of Beesd. In old times the name of this town was Bisde.
Go to the site: http://geneaknowhow.net/digi/resources.html
Go to the left-hand column, to Gelderland; click under Gelderland left-side on 'Internet'.
Scroll through the page till you find 'Beesd cath, baptisms 1700-1811'.
Click on 'cath.' and the register will be downloaded.

After the year 1811, look on the site: http://www.genlias.nl/en/search.jsp

Thank you Harrie,
The family I'm working on (Pieter Marselis) left in 1661 on the ship Bever so I'm looking for records around that time frame and before. That doesn't mean there weren't any of his relatives still around and I would like to trace them once I establish what records actually exist for Beesd in the 1660's and earlier.

I had never come across the spelling of "Beesd" as "Bisde", only "Beest". That's an interesting and potentially very helpful piece of information.

So far I've only been able to determine that there are "Rechterlijke" or Judicial records for that period, namely for 1539-1811. Those are on film at the Family History Library in Salt Lake City. Having not seen them, I don't know how hard it would be to read them. I suspect they would be difficult at best. I'm hoping there are other records, in particular, church records for the Beesd area.

Does anyone know where these records are kept in the Netherlands?

The Pieter Marselis family (and descendants) essentially attended the Dutch Reformed Church in America when they could. Did the Dutch also attend the Catholic churches as easily as they did the Presbyterian churches in America as time passed?

Thanks for all your help. This has been most informative.
Peter Bradish

They went to America: see the ship passenger lists:
http://geneaknowhow.net/digi/pass1.html
Note: Marselis is also written as Marcelis. It means 'son of Marcel'. So, the father's first name was Marcel.
Most ecclesiastical registers start at about 1660. Before that time, you must see to the tax-registers ('maatboeken, verpondingen, beedes'); the financial and legal registers ('Protocollen van Bezwaar' and the 'Oud Rechterlijk Archief' = ORA; translated: Financial and juridical records; Old Juridical Archive). They are written in the 17th century writing, and even for us extremely difficult to read. For not only the writing is difficult, also the old language.
These records are kept in the Gelders Archive at Arnhem: http://www.geldersarchief.nl/
See also:
http://www.historischekringbemmel.nl/link-genea.htm
Maybe, the Beesd' historical society has these records already transcribed.

No, in those times it was war between the Catholics and the many kinds of protestantisms. The so-called '80 year war', 1568-1648.
Now it is time for me to go to bed. Have a good night.

I'm part of the Vanderhoof Project - see www.vanderhoofproject.com - our ancestors also travelled to America on De Bever in 1661 and my direct ancestor Jan Cornelis was closely connected with the Marcelis family in Bergen in the late 1690's and early 1700's. I've also a few references to Pieter Marcelis from the Judicial Archive of Beesd. These records, mostly land transactionsare, not transcribed, but there is a list of the names of the parties which I have here courtesy of Marin Ijzerman , a member of the HKWB.

We have recently uncovered some new information (see project website) about the voyage of De Bever which you will find useful and there are some updates on the Vanderhoof Project Facebook Page. I've also a copy of the original debit entries for Pieter and family from the WIC accounts book which I'll send if you wish.

You may also be interested in joining 'De Bever' Facebook group which has just been started. This is for anyone with and interest in the ship and its voyages.

Yes, I would very much like a copy of the "original debit entries for Pieter and family from the WIC accounts book", and an opportunity for us to communicate when reasonable. Please contact me at brad ish do t p at sign gm ail D ot C om.