Apologies in advance if non-administrators are not supposed to post here but this seemed the most appropriate place to submit my questions.

In recent days, a board which I regularly read and contribute to has been embroiled in a dispute regarding the use of the surnames field. I don't wish to get into the details of the dispute at this time except to say that it involves the administrator of the board so I don't feel that I can pose these questions directly to the admin.

I think one of the things fueling the issue is a lack of basic understanding about the surnames field: what is its purpose and the rules governing its use. Hence, I am trying to get answers in hopes it can help frame the context for future discussion.

Question 1: What is the basic underlying purpose of the surnames field and why is it so important that *all* surnames in the body of a message be duplicated *exactly* in the surnames field? I am deliberately pretending ignorance to some degree here but please bear me out. Note that I am not asking *how* to properly fill in the surnames field (I think I know that) but rather am more interested in an explanation of *why* I should do so.

Question 2: What rules govern what a board administrator is required or permitted to do in maintaining the surnames field of queries posted to their boards? In particular, I am interested in what are the rules regarding queries that have surnames in the message text but the surnames field is left blank (either accidently or on purpose). Are policies in this area well defined for all or are admins left to their own discretion?

Question 3: Where can I find the rules governing surnames field entries that board users are supposed to know and obey? I have seen things posted on this topic but frankly I have by myself not been able to locate anything I would call definitive anywhere on Ancestry/Rootsweb. Could someone post links to the "official rules" or at least describe how I can navigate to them?

Thank you very much in advance for any light you can shed on these topics. Depending on the answers, I may wish to ask a few follow-up questions.

Kindest regards,

Jeff

At the bottom of this page, you will see a link for BoardFAQ

In part it says...
...Next, create the body of your message and include as many relevant details as possible. Once you have typed your message, enter all of the surnames mentioned in your post in the "Surnames" field. Please include only surnames that are mentioned in your post- not all surnames you might be researching. If you wish, you can include surname spelling variations for the surnames mentioned in your message.

Board admins get a lot of abuse reports requesting deletions of surnames not mentioned in the post. They are required to delete those. However, they don't have to add surnames if a poster doesn't fill in the surname field.

Jeff-

Rather than get into board admin duties (and despite comments to the contrary editing surnames is a more or less optional admin responsibility even though it IS most helpful) let's cover the reason for the surname box and why the entries are important:

Let me start off with a question...if you are researching a family whose surnames are JOSEPH and JAMES and IRELAND--and you wish to search the message boards for posts about your JOSEPH, JAMES, and IRELAND ancestors -- how can you be sure the search results are SURNAMES and not given names (first names) or the country of Ireland rather than the surname?

That is what the surname field/box is for--to help in advanced searches so that when you search for a surname you KNOW the results are ONLY surnames and not common words, given names, or places. So your search results are only as good as the entries that the poster has placed in this box when posting his message.

When we all post a message on a board we want people to find it who have an interest in our post or who might have information for us...and using the surname box properly (listing ONLY surnames, and only surnames found IN the message or variant spellings of those names) we can help people find our post in a search.

Surnames should be listed one at a time and separated by a comma and single space. For example:
Ireland, James, Joseph, Van Allen, de la Croix

The comma, in addition to serving as a separator for indexing for the search engine, also helps the person browsing through the board posts to know whether you are listing two separate surnames Van and Allen or a single surname Van Allen.

Listing surnames that are NOT included in the message only leads the people finding the post in a search on a wild goose chase for a message not of interest to them.

Hope this helps to explain the reason behind having a dedicated surname field. Without those specified field entries at the time of posting the search engine cannot distinguish between Ireland the country and Ireland the surname.

Joan

Joan,

Thank you very much. That was exactly the sort of answer I was looking for.

I would like to ask a couple follow-up questions on this topic.

1) Is it required to exactly match the surnames as presented in the body of the message? Here is the context behind my question. I have a couple CD-ROM databases that I use to help answer queries. Sometimes a search of the db comes up with a name that was slightly truncated in the indexing process, e.g., "Pettersdotte", which ought to be Pettersdotter. Is there any reason why one would add the truncated name on the surnames field?

The same question pertains to names that happen to be misspelled in the body of the query -- or where there are multiple possible spellings: is there any requirement to match misspellings verbatim in the surnames field?

2) Is there a requirement to include in the surnames field *all* surnames that appear in the query text? Again, using the CD-ROM databases as an example, sometimes a search may result in finding many, many names that may be related to the target of the original query. Are users required to transcribe all those many different surnames into the surnames field?

Jeff

Jeff-

A general search will search "every word" of the message and will pick any spelling for the names includes in the message but won't be able to determine whether they are surnames are used as a word, first name, locality, etc.

The Advanced Search SURNAME BOX search will only find what is entered in the surname box (provided it is entered correctly without extraneous slashes and dashes and such).

You MAY enter variant spellings of the surnames included in your message although it is best to also mention the variants in the message too. I wouldn't worry about the CDs that truncate the spelling of names--that isn't done with the surname box on the boards--so show the names in full but DO include variant spellings that someone might also be looking for. For example, my MYERS ancestors at various times on varions records spelled the name MEYER, MEYERS, and finally MYERS. Listing all three spellings will help people find my posts in a search.

It isn't REQUIRED that you enter all surnames in the message in the surnames box too-- but it is helpful for those who search later on if you do. Pay SPECIAL attention to surnames that could be confusing in a search: James, Joseph, Ireland, England, German, List, Cousin, Road...well, you get the idea.

Joan

I have a follow-up question.

When I use the surname field, will my query be linked automatically to the message board for that surname?

Example: I post a query about WATSON (and use the surname field) in a USA>Florida board. Will my message also appear in Surname>Watson?

If the answer is yes, then why is my post not showing up in the correct boards? ie http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.ohi... and http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.caribbean.cuba.general...

If I go to Surname>Watson or Surname>Anton, my recent post isn't listed...

Thanks

"When I use the surname field, will my query be linked automatically to the message board for that surname?"

Unfortunately -- no.

Keep in mind that most board visitors don't browse through a board--they do a SEARCH and generally they do a search of ALL boards and often use the advanced search options...that is where someone searching from ANY board will find posts on ANY OTHER board if they enter surnames in the surname box search. So, in that regard, the searches on surnames ARE connected to the surnames boards and every board in the system.

Joan
PS: The surname box is MOST useful in a search when an every word search wouldn't be productive...for example, when a very common surname that can be a common word, given name, etc. is the one you are looking for. The surname box searches are probably the only way to search for Joseph, List, Field, Cousin, James <---when these are SURNAMES you want to search. This means in these cases it is also most important when you post to USE the surname box.

I posted this yesterday: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.ohi... and today when I do a search for Helene (field: Name/Keyword) and Anton (field: Surname) I get one hit but not my post. Why isn't my post showing up in the search?

You won't get a hit on new posts in a search until the boards are reindexed to include new posts. this can take some time and the board indexing doesn't seem to be on any regular schedule at present. It used to be done once a week on Sunday nights---but that doesn't seem to be the case of late.

Joan