I have been doing research on my G. G. Grandparents, William DOWNS and Susan A. Savannah Hibbard (DOWNS), but I am having some trouble that hopefully someone can help me with. William was born in 1860 in Waco, TX and died in 1940 in Navasota. I have found him with his wife Savannah in the 1900, 1910, 1920 and 1930 Cencus along with William's death certificate, all showing that his father was born in TX and mother from Germany, and his DC shows his Mother's name to be Doretta Vulgosh, from Germany. I have been trying to find William in the 1880 Cencus but am running into some trouble. I am finding a William J. Downs in Waco, TX who was born in about 1862 and his father is shown as William A. Downs...but it shows that he (the father) was born in Georgia and it shows his wife to be Elizabeth, also born in GA, rather than Doretta Vulgosh from Germany. It seams like this is the ONLY William in TX who was born about that time, living in the right area with a father named William...so could it be that the cencus record from 1900-1930 are wrong in saying that his father is from TX and if that is the case, how could I explane it saying his mother is from Germany on all the census' records and the Death certificate along with her name and that not matching up with the 1880 cencus? Not to mention, I can't find Doretta Vulgosh anywhere at all...the last name comes up nowhere, so I have no idea where to go with that lead. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks so much for the help!!

Willie Downs

Hi Willie, First, keep in mind when doing genealogy, you will find many mistakes in Census records, and death records also. The informant who is giving the info, might know next to nothing about their loved ones. I noticed on the death cert. for William Downs, it is marked out by the mothers name, I believe it reads Minnie Vulgosh. I did locate a Minnie Downs buried in Galveston, but I believe it is just wrong on the death cert. I believe William,s mother may have been Elizabeth Thomas, after doing some research myself. This is some info on your family and some websites that will be helpful in your search. Hope this helps. Good Luck. Bryghtstar
This would be William Downs and Savanna Hibbard
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=do...;

You can find many of your family by searching here.
http://www.findagrave.com/

You will find death cert and census records here.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start

These are some trees done on your family. be careful and double check all the info yourself. I do believe these to be more correct, there are more, but I did see mistakes in them. You can use them as guide lines, which is very helpful.
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&d...

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&d...

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&d...

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&d...

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&d...

Well, Germany and Georgia both begin with "G"! Research his younger brother James Barney Downs (17 Jan 1865 - 17 Nov 1952). His census data (regarding nativity of parents) indicates Georgia was birthplace of mother and father. There is a pedigree, viewable at familysearch.org, assigning Elizabeth Kemp as their birth mom. It was complied by Doris Shockley of Deming, NM. Also, the "Cochran/Cochrum, Ezell, West, Billingslea Families" tree supports the lineage. The tree is owned by mfam and you can forward emails by clicking on her username. View at http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/6671891/person/-773592012

This is a LONG SHOT...
1860 United States Federal Census

Name: Doretta Thosh
Age in 1860: 15
Birth Year: abt 1845
Birthplace: Preußen;Germany
Home in 1860: Washington, Texas
Gender: Female
Post Office: Brenham
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members: Name Age
Lizzie Plickholm 30
Fred Plickholm 30
Doretta Thosh 15


I THINK THAT NONE OF THESE LAST NAMES ARE SPELLED CORRECTLY
AS THEY NEVER COME UP ANYWHERE BEFORE OR AFT

THE ONE THING I DID NOTICE WAS THAT IN WASHINGTON CO IN 1860 WERE A LOT OF GERMANS
This is of no help whatsoever as far as I can tell

at some point you might consider a dna test...tho' that may still be of no help

I am not related

Connie

1850 United States Federal Census

Name: Dorteta Voglesang
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Birth Place: Germany
Gender: Female
Home in 1850(City,County,State): Austin, Texas
Family Number: 189
Household Members: Name Age
Jacob Voglesang 46
Matas Voglesang 47
Dorteta Voglesang 20
Theodore Voglesang 18
Ernst Voglesang 12
Federick Voglesang 7
John Oshen 32

you never know....

Thanks for your help! I have had a DNA test done through Ancestry but I haven't had any luck at all finding out much of anything. So, if Doretta's last name is spelled wrong on the Death Cert., and one of those other people are her, then how would it be possible to know for certain that that is her?

Lookup mitochondrial DNA. It's nearly impossible to trace a male to a female ancestor without a paternity test of both parents. Your DNA will link you to "male descendants" of the Downs family. Best bet? Accept that the death certificate informant was not well-informed!

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it. I hate to completely dismiss Doretta Vulgosh as being William's mother...something I thought was interesting, is a photo I found of my Great Grandfather, Robert Lee Downs, wearing sock with swastika's on them...which I associated with his Grandmother (Doretta) being from Germany. I figured her influence in some way or another would have been the reason for him wearing those socks. So, if Doretta is in the picture somewhere, I don't know how she fits with Elizabeth, because according to the census (assuming William J. Downs is my G. G. Grandfather and his father is William A. Downs) William A. and Elizabeth were together in the 1850-1870 census, while William (my G. G. Grandfather) was born in 1860...so the way I see it, either Elizabeth is his mother, or that isn't him in that census at all and those aren't his parents, or Doretta Vulgosh is completely wrong on his death certificate, and not his mother. I wish their was a way to know for sure and find a definite source to clear this up...

Reviewed your tree and you have done well!!! Information on documents can be the source of much confusion. An example is the census record of Benjamin Oliver Downs. You have a pet/nickname "Bing" for him? Methinks that was probably a misinterpretation of census data. "Benj" is an early abbreviation of Benjamin in the same vein as "Chas" abbreviates Charles. Too, review Savannah Downs' death certificate and try to find her parents using that document, only! Mission impossible!

I started working on this Sunday. Here is my 2 cents worth. Paula -

William A Downs appears to have married Elizabeth Thomas possibly in GA, AL or AR about 1849. Both from Georgia.

You will find them in Jackson, Dallas, AR in 1850 census with a dtr Elizabeth born AR 1850 died before 1860. Hannah Lenora Downs born AR 1853, came to Waco 1853 - 1855, Benjamin b TX, 1855, Louisa "Lou" Downs 1859, William born in Waco is listed as age 8 in 1870, age 18 in 1880 census and birth year of 1862 in 1900 census.

1900 census says William and and Susanna married in 1878 but he is listed with mother and father in 1880 and Susanna is not listed with her parents in 1880. They are not found as couple in the 1880 census by me.

If you will notice the Thomas niece and nephews in the 1880 Downs' houshold and Hannah Thomas in the 1860 Downs' household. Hannah and husband David Thomas are in Jackson, Dallas, AR in 1850 along with a bunch of Thomas' born in Alabama. Hannah was Elizabeth's mother or grandmother I suspect.

William Downs, born in Waco, sister Louisa aka Lula E "Lou" Downs Burleson born 1859 TX died in Waco in 1936. Her death certificate says her mother was Elizabeth Thomas father W A Downs per John Burleson she is buried Gatesville Cemetery, Coryell Co. Lula is listed as "Low" Burleson age 70 in 1930 census in Waco with son Floyd D Burleson age 28.

There was another name on William's death certificate for his mother, Minnie Vulgosh, it has been "X" over and Doretta Vulgosh typed over it. His daughter, Viola Sledge, was the informant. These things are not always correct, including birth years. Who knows where Viola came up with that name.

Susannah's parents were Levi J "Hibberd" born NY her mother was Sarah Broadwater born SC married in Harris Co in 1860. One of Susannah's sisters married a SLEDGE and died in Navasota in 1955 cofirming her maiden name of Broadwater. Wherein Susannah's says her mother was just Sarah unknown.

Two public trees; "Robin's Family Tree" and "Merry Becker Wakeland Tatum Family" say Elizabeth was a Kemp and that William Andrew Downs born GA 13 Jul 1819 died in Waco 26 Dec 1904 married in 1849 and his father was William Woods Downs mother Henrietta Sparks.

Several trees on David T Thomas and Hannah Burson
Mary Elizabeth Thomas Paine 1821 GA - abt 1905 McLennan Co married William Downs. I guess Elizabeth was briefly married to a Paine.
Lewellen Thomas 1806 Warren Co GA died in Texas 1869 married Elizabeth Watson in Coweta Co GA
1830. David S Thomas and "Lwelling" Thomas listed 1830 census Coweta Co GA

Hannah Leonora Downs abt 1852 Dallas, AR died aft 1910 TX married Henry Richard "Dick" Ashby 30 Dec 1868 McLennan County, father William A Downs, mother Elizabeth "Betsy" Thomas per "Howell Family Tree"

1880 Coryell Co TX; Leonora Ashby born AR 1853 spouse H D Ashby, children Seborn, Alice, Edward Lawrence 27 Nov 1868 Gatesville - 1954 McGregor Co, George Sylvester 12 Dec 1871/1874 Gatesville - 27 Nov 1949 Leon Junction, Coryell Co and William. I had already noted below that she died or married before 1870. Leonora aka Nora Downs. Both Edward and George are buried near Oglesby, Texas.

Name: Hannah L Ashby
Home in 1900: Justice Precinct 5, Coryell, Texas
Age: 48
Birth Date: 1852
Birthplace: Texas
Race: White
Ethnicity: American
Gender: Female
Relationship to Head of House: Wife
Father's Birthplace: Georgia
Mother's Birthplace: Georgia
Mother: number of living children: 3
Mother: How many children: 3
Spouse's name: Henry D
Marriage Year: 1870
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 30

Name: Sarah J Ashby
[Sarah J Ashley]
Home in 1900: Justice Precinct 5, Coryell, Texas
Age: 37
Birth Date: Oct 1862
Birthplace: Texas
Race: White
Ethnicity: American
Gender: Female
Relationship to Head of House: Wife
Father's Birthplace: Georgia
Mother's Birthplace: Georgia
Mother: number of living children: 6
Mother: How many children: 9
Spouse's name: John
Marriage Year: 1880
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 20

Sarah Jane Downs Ashby 1863 - 1945 married John Enoch Ashby in 1880, dtr of Wm A Downs and "Betsy" Thomas.

Texas death certificates 1890 - 1976, most US census records.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=0

William Downs 28 Feb 1860 Waco - 02 Jul 1940 Navasota Grimes, father William Downs TX, mother Doretta Vulgosh Germany

Savannah Downs 01 Mar 1863 TX - 08 June 1951 Navasota, father Levi "Herbert/Hibbard" mother Sarah

1850 Rome Oneida Co NY
Betsey Hibbard 43 or 48 Rhode Island
Levi Hibbard 18 NY boatman
Rasinda Hibbard 20 NY female

Name: Levi Hibbard
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 13 May 1860
Spouse: Sarah Broadwater
Marriage City: Harris
Marriage State: Texas
Source: Texas Marriages, 1851-1900
Source Information: Ancestry.com. Texas Marriage Collection, 1814-1909 and 1966-2002 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2005

15 Sept 1870, Stafford Post Office, Pct 1, Fort Bend, TX
Levi J Hibberd 37 farmer $300 real estate $900 personal wealth born NY
Sarah A E BROADWATER Hibberd 27 SC
George A Hibberd 9 TX
Sausan A S Hibberd 6 TX
Eliza Frances Hibberd 3 TX
Lydia "Liddie" A Hibberd 1 TX

1880; Census Place: Precinct 2, Burleson, Texas; Roll T9_1293; Family History Film: 1255293; Page: 35.3000; Enumeration District: 29
Levi Hibbert 1832 IL
Sarah Hibbert 1842 SC SC SC
Frances Hibbert 1867 TX dtr
Liddie Hibbert 1869 TX dtr
Mary Hibbert SLEDGE 1871 / 10 Sept 1874 TX dtr died 22 Dec 1955 Navasota in 1890 married C B Sledge b. AL 1854 he was previously married. You will find them in Grimes Co in 1900.
Jesse Hibbert 1878 TX son
John Elma 1855 TX nephew no mention where parents were born

1850; Census Place: Jackson, Dallas, Arkansas; Roll M432_26; Page: 15B; Image: 37
Wm Downs 26 GA 1824
Elizabeth Downs 26 GA 1824
Elizabeth Downs 0 1850 AR

1850; Census Place: Jackson, Dallas, Arkansas; Roll M432_26; Page: 16A; Image: 38.
David Thomas 72 SC
Hanah Thomas 71 SC

Luellen Thomas 1806 GA male
Elizabeth Thomas 1810 GA
Hanah S Thomas 1825 NC
. . .and others.

1860; Census Place: , Waco McLennan, Texas; Roll M653_1300; Page: 397; Image: 217; Family History Library Film: 805300.
W A Downs 36 1824 GA
E Downs 37 1823 GA
Lanora Downs 1853 AR - died or married before 1870
Bing/Benjamin Downs 1856 TX married Martha Ashby born AR; William Oliver Downs born 17 Jan 1898 Oglesby TX died in Plainview 1943 father listed as Benjamen O Downs born Gatesville. 1900 in Coryell Co as Ben J Downs born TX Sept 1855 married to Mattie B, Ben said father/mother born GA, married in 1879. I believe Benjamin Downs died in Plainview in 1948 year of birth listed as 1874 born in "McClelland" Co parents unknown per Mrs. Eldon Boyd, buried Plainview Cemetery IOOF. Mrs. Eldon Boyd was Harnie Lee Downs married Eldon Ford Boyd. She was born about 1906. Eldon died in California.
E Downs 8/12 1859 TX female - died before 1880 "Lou's" twin sister
Luisa Downs 8/12 1859 TX
Hannah Thomas 83 1777 NC

1870; Census Place: West of The Brazos River, McLennan, Texas; Roll M593_1598; Page: 172; Image: 340.
William Downs 49 1821 GA
Elizabeth Downs 49 1821 GA
Benjamin Downs 14 1856 TX
Louisa Downs 11 1859 TX aka Lula E Downs Burleson 04 Sept 1859 TX died 16 Jan 1936 Waco buried Gatesville married A F Burleson
William Downs 8 1862 TX
Sarah Jane Downs 8 1862 TX married John Enoch Ashby settled in Coryell County born Oct 1862. Death certificate says born 13 Nov 1863 Crawford Texas died in Meridian, Bosque Co 12 May 1945 dtr of Wm A "Dawns" mistranscribed and "Betsy" Thomas
James Downs 6 1864 TX

1880; Census Place: Waco, McLennan, Texas; Roll T9_1318; Family History Film: 1255318; Page: 210.1000; Enumeration District: 115;
William A. Downs 1820 GA Ireland DE
Elizabeth Downs 1821 GA NC GA
William J. Downs 1862 TX son
James Barney Downs 1864 TX son married a Billington, dtr Amanda born 1883. James Barney died rural Tarrant Co 17 Nov 1952, divorced, William Downs father, Ryan Speegle informant, buried Rose Hill Cemetery, Fort Worth. Ryan Speegle 1896 - 1987 Fort Worth.
Lula A. Thomas 1865 MS AL MS niece
Eugene L. Thomas 1871 TX AL MS nephew
Clarence B. Thomas 1873 TX AL MS nephew

Lula A Thomas may have married Rufus Felder Minnock in Waco ? Listed as Tenie Minnock born MS Aug 1861 stated both parents born MS married in 1892 dtr Lillie Aadelle Minnock Fannin died in Waco 1957 said mother was Lula Thomas. Lula Thomas Minnock died before 1920, no death record found. Rufus died in 1931. Can't find Eugene and Clarence Thomas after 1880.

1900; Census Place: Justice Precinct 3, Grimes, Texas; Roll T623_1640; Page: 19A; Enumeration District: 20.
William Downs 38 no month only year of 1862 TX father blank mother Germany said they married 1878
Savanna Downs 32 Sept 1862 TX father SC mother NY bore 10 children 7 living [got her parents reversed]
Willie Downs Feb 1881
Lizzie Downs Jan 1888
Robert Downs Jan 1890 registered WW I Draft Grimes Co said he was born in Worthington ? TX, wife/1 child 6 June 1917
Earnest Edward Downs May 1892 registered WW I Draft Grimes Co died 01 Jul 1972 Navasota, death record says born Washington Co, draft card says born Navasota, had wife/2 children 5 June 1917
Horace Levi Downs Jan 1894 registered WW I Draft Grimes Co said born in Navasota was single 5 June 1917
Barnie Downs Aug 1896
Lonney Downs May 1898 Lonnie Fred registered WW I Draft Grimes Co 12 Sept 1918 listed Mrs. Adel Downs nearest relative he died 23 Jul 1984 Grimes County

Lizzie Downs Sledge Jan 1888 or 18 Oct 1886 TX - Mrs. L G Sledge 18 Oct 1886 TX - 16 June 1927 Houston buried Navasota

Horace L[evi] Downs 11 Mar 1894 Navasota - 15 Oct 1955 Navasota married Martha Haynes

Robert Lee Downs 1889 or 1890 - 18 Jul 1971 Houston

Viola M Downs Sledge/Shedge 16 Jul 1901 Navasota - 05 Apr 1968 Navasota

1900, Pct 1, Gatesville, Coryell, TX - 1910 Nolan Co TX
A "Alf Frank" F Burleson Feb 1854 TX GA GA married 1877
Lou Burleson Sept 1859 TX GA GA 8 children
John W 8 Feb 1881
Lucy E March 1884
Bell March 1888
Rufus 01 Nov 1890 son
George Edward 13 Apr 1893
Alfred Smith 26 Dec 1895
Ernest Oct 1898
Floyd 1902

Hale Co TX cemetery records
http://unger.myplainview.com/cemetery/cemetery.php