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Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Posted: 20 Apr 2005 10:51PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 26 Oct 2005 7:25AM GMT
Isaac was my g.grandfather. He was from Shropshire England. He emmigrated to New Zealand to join his 2 sons
about 1912. My grandfather was William b.1884 Coalbrookdale England. Isaac was listed as a Foundling and I've come to a dead end. Any Help

Re: Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Posted: 17 Jun 2009 5:50PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: RYALLS
Wendy/Lance

I have a senario that may help.

In 1861 in Madeley, Coalbrookdale I have found a Sarah RYALS, Widow, aged 64, born Sheffield, living with her son Joseph aged 23 and Nephew/Grandson Isaac PINCHES aged 5, born Dawley

In 1871, at the same residence, I have again found a Sarah RYALS, Widow, living with her daughter Matha A JONES and Nephew Isaac PINCHES aged 15, born Dawley

In 1881 I can not find an Isaac PINCHES but I have found Isaac RYALLS aged 25, born Dawley, living with Alice Emma RYALLS and son Richard Archibald...

Further analysis of 1841 census shows Sarah RYALLS living in Madley with her husband Joseph RYALLS and several children including Joseph

I have also found a FreeBDM birth record for Joseph RYALLS Dec Qtr 1837 Madeley Vol 18 Page 80, which would give the parents... which I suspect will be Joseph RYALLS and Sarah SMILTER or Sarah STANIFORTH.

It appears to me that Isaac RYALLS may just have adobted the name RYALLS and was actually born Isaac PINCHES... FreeBDM record of birth Mar Qtr 1856, Madeley Vol 6a Page 569.

It would be interesting to see who Isaac RYALLS declaired as his father, when he married Alice Emma ROBERTS in Mar Qtr 1880, Madeley Vol 6a Page 881

The 1891 ad 1901 cesnus returns show Isaac and Alice with children Archibald, Ernest and William

May be worth studying!!

John


Re: Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Posted: 17 Jun 2009 10:08PM GMT
Classification: Query
Further to my recent response......

Noah PINCHES married and Eliza POWELL or HODGSON Jun Qtr 1847 Wolverhampton Vol 17 Page 415.

Eliza PINCHES died Mar Qtr 1855 Madeley Vol 6a Page 549

Noah PINCHES re-married and Eliza RYALS Sep Qtr 1855 Madeley Vol 6a Page 990

Isaac PINCHES birth Mar Qtr 1856 Madeley Vol 6a Page 569... to parents Noah PINCHES and Eliza RYALS I suspect.... BUT may well have been concieved before the marriage of Noah & Eliza

In the 1861 Census Isaac is with his grandmother Sarah RYALS and never returned to the family group, whilst Noah & Eliza are living together with children from both of Noah's wives! .... No wonder Isaac took the name of RYALLS when he married Alice Emma ROBERTS... he was brought up as a RYALLS by his grandmother and never lived with his parents Noah & Eliza!!!!

John

Re: Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Posted: 18 Jun 2009 7:43AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: RYALLS and PINCHES
Yet anothor addendum to my previous response.

Eliza PINCHES nee RYALLS, aged 42 died Jun Qtr 1874, Madeley Vol 6a Page 417. This could be Isaac's MOTHER so she died before Isaac PINCHES/RYALLS married Alice Emma ROBERTS in 1880.

It is quite possible that Isaac may never have known who his parents were as he just could have been brought up by his grandmother Sarah, with whom he was living in 1861 and 1871.

Isaac may be the son of Eliza RYALLS/PINCHES but perhaps Noah was not certain that he was the father. Noah did get married rather quickly after his first wifes death and at that time Noah's family would be in turmoil with him having to work and young children to look after.

More food for thought.... but do not rule this theory out yet!

Re: Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Posted: 18 Jun 2009 10:28PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Ryalls Pinches
Hi John
Yes I think you are correct I followed this trail some time ago.
Isaac RYALLS was born Isaac PINCHES his father was Noah PINCHES and his mother Eliza RYALLS. I was confused at first as Noah had two wives both named Eliza. Noah's first wife Eliza died at the beginning of 1855 and Isaac was born 10 months later 20-12-1855. Noah PINCHES and Eliza RYALLS were married 3 months before Isaac's birth in 1855. As far as I can tell Isaac lived all of his early life with his grandmother Sarah RYALLS.
Isaac married Alice ROBERTS in 1880 and stated father unknown. I am as sure as is possible however that Isaac PINCHES and Isaac RYALLS are the same person.
I have looked extensively!! for the birth of Isaac RYALLS including a search by staff of St Catherine house in London, no luck.
The dates match exactly.
At the point where Isaac PINCHES disappears from the records, Isaac RYALLS appears.
Isaac may have been quite resentful, and probably felt more of a RYALLS than a PINCHES.
Isaac never talked to his family about his parents.
The PINCHES side of the family had been wondering where their mysterious Isaac had disapeared to and the RYALLS side were wondering where our mysterious Isaac had come from, I think we now know.
Wendy

Re: Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Posted: 18 Jun 2009 10:35PM GMT
Classification: Query
Yes, although he didn't take the name RYALLS until after the 1871 census aged 15, but before his marraige aged 24.

Re: Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Posted: 18 Jun 2009 10:41PM GMT
Classification: Query
Noah is stated as the father on Isaac's birth certificate. As Coalbrookdale was a small village it can reasonably be supposed that Isaac knew both his parents and his siblings. Which would, one supposes, only increase his resentment.
Wendy

Re: Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Posted: 19 Jun 2009 6:28AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Wendy,

On the marriage certificate of Isaac RYALLS to Alice Emma ROBERTS in 1880, are there any witnesses who may link back to PINCHES?

John

Re: Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Posted: 19 Jun 2009 10:20AM GMT
Classification: Query
No the witnesses were Alice' sister and brother.

Re: Isaac Ryalls and Alice hannah nee:Roberts

Posted: 10 Sep 2010 1:58PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello
Isaac Ryalls was my greatgrandfather too, through his son Richard Archibald, who was my grandfather. My mother died without telling me that her paternal grandparents had migrated to NZ so I didn't know anything about them. What she did tell me though was that her greatgrandmother, a Mrs Brown, had been a jew but had been spurned by her family for marrying a gentile. I wonder if she was on her father's side. Do you know if Noah and Isaac were jewish? And do you know why they decided to migrate to NZ?
Kind regards
Marianne Doczi
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