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Great Grandfather Probasco

Great Grandfather Probasco

Lezlie (View posts)
Posted: 28 Aug 2005 3:29PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Probasco, Roberts
Hello-- My Great Grandfather was named Probasco, possible Roberto (he was called that) or Frank. He owned a shipping & hotel firm and was (as we understand) from Rome. His portrait shows a very Northern Italian-looking man with very white hair. I am told his family was originally from the Po River valley region of Italy.

His first wife was "Jessie" Josephine or Jessica (she may have changed it after the divorce in the late 1800's) Rheinheimer, she may have been French or French Canadian. They had two children, I am descended from Ethel who married a Welshman named Roberts (who was a Dr. in Kansas City and later in Mt. Vernon, Missouri) and had four surviving children: Esther (married Ellis Kinyon), Robert (married Virginia), Billy Joe (married Ruth) and Alan. I am Esther's (was born “Easter Morning, changed in the 50’s) child. Jessie moved west to California in the late 1800's. There are paintings of hers depicting Marin Head and San Francisco Bay.

Are we related? If so, there is a whole branch of the "clan" to reclaim with many descendants. Yours, Lezlie

Re: Great Grandfather Probasco

Posted: 28 Aug 2005 5:08PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Lezlie,

Your great grandfather was Frank Probasco b. Jun 1858 in IA (per 1900 census). He was a saloon keeping per the 1880 census and a hotel owner in the 1900 census. He married Hannah Josephine (Jessie) Rheinheimer as his 1st wife. They show up together in the 1880 census for Taylor County, IA. They had 3 children according to 1900 census for Jessie who by then had apparently married a Lyon: Belle, Paul and Ethel. (Belle may be a daughter from an earlier marriage or adopted).

Frank Probasco's parents were William Henry Probasco b. 1821 in PA and Cynthia Ann Marble b. 1821 in PA. His family was not from Rome. Frank was one of 7 children born to this couple who settled in Henry County, Iowa from Clinton County, OH about 1854 according to the History of Henry County, IA, p. 431.

Re: Great Grandfather Probasco

Lezlie (View posts)
Posted: 29 Aug 2005 3:58PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 6 Feb 2009 4:29PM GMT
Surnames: Probasco
Hello Nora!
Although the information you have is very close— too close to be coincidental – however, I am afraid this does not tally with the information in the family bible...will do further research and get back to you. There was no Belle (surviving or otherwise), Paul is too young, it's "Ethel Nora", I am afraid g-grandfather's name was not Frank (on his portrait & other papers). Other names are not spelled correctly, dates are not right. But, you see the closeness of it all.

There is a lot of information in terms of birth,death, inheritance, immgration and other records that can be consulted as well.

Will post again in a few days with what I have learned. If you are my cousin (and, I hope you are) -- I am very please to have found you. Lezlie

Re: Great Grandfather Probasco

Posted: 29 Aug 2005 5:24PM GMT
Classification: Query
Was Paul Probasco's wife's name, Celia? And did they have a son named Harry? Who did Ethel Nora marry? I am not a direct cousin to this family but all Probascos are related. I am documenting the Probasco family in America. You might check out my Probasco home page at:

http://home.earthlink.net/~nprobasco/

I would like to learn more about your Probasco family.

Re: Great Grandfather Probasco

Lezlie (View posts)
Posted: 29 Aug 2005 7:30PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello Nora!
You might want to get in touch with my mother, Esther Palmer, at esmaruine@yahoo.com. She has most of the family records, her brother, my Uncle Bill has more. I have forwarded your message to her, put my name in the subject line. (Mom is not terribly "fond of computers" (...!) so, please have a little patience with her replies.)

I don't know who Paul married, he was "persona non grata" in grandmother's house. Ethel never spoke to Paul after a dispute concerning an inheritance and her marriage (there is a letter that still raises a few eyebrows at this end).

Ethel married a doctor named Roberts who died when my mother was a child. Ethel had several children – Maude, (John, William?) and an unnamed baby — in the Kansas City area, and also in Ohio, all of whom died during the influenza epidemic. Later, she had four more who survived, and are documented herein.

She went onto study religion, but never received her degree as she was a woman, and because of this, became an advocate of women’s rights.

Mother says she remembers an "Aunt Katharine" (called Kit) that her mother cared for, as she was (as they said in those days:) "mad as a hatter" and who may have been Paul's widow. This was in Colorado near the turn of the century. We cannot find her in the family bible...but there is a letter to a physician about her condition. Ethel hated Colorado with a passion, and they returned to Kansas City. She settled in Seattle in the 1950s and died there in the 1960s. Ethel had three surviving children: Alan (Married Jean, has two children, Robert and Bonita, they have children), Robert (died in 1991—married Virginia) they had two daughters (twins), and Billy Joe (married Ruth), there are many "youngers" my age and many daughters and even great-grandchildren. Ruth & Billy Joe have four children: Linda Grace (never married), Lois (married Beath), Barbara (married Borstad) and Charles who just got married and moved to Crete (of all places). Lois and Barbara have children, and one, Jennifer, Barbara’s daughter, has a new baby. I can put you in touch with Linda.

My mother, Esther Maurine Roberts (b. Kansas City, no accurate date or birth cert.) married Ellis Kinyon, my father (d. 1958; 2nd husband, Wm. Palmer, divorced, one child, William.) I married Malcolm Brenner, we have one child, Thea Artemis Kinyon-Brenner. b. Seattle WA 1984. (Malcolm and I parted ways many years ago. She uses Kinyon only.) Oh, I was born in Olympia WA, 1956. (There is a mistake in the spelling of my name on the birth cert. that no one ever bothered to fix. The OB was a very odd man...)

I am a human science researcher in the San Francisco Bay Area and a poet. (Google me: Lezlie Kinyon, for works). No one is particularly close—although Linda and I stay in touch – we’ve scattered to the four winds. I think this takes you up to the present day. Mother can give you the names and birthdays of the younger generation.

Jessie never spoke to any of the Probascos after heading west. (You can imagine why.) This is the tale as it has been pieced together by us from family records and from Grandmother (mother's mother):

I can find no Belle (surviving or otherwise) except to a vague reference to a maid in California who had to be sent home. The Paul in your reply is too young. I am afraid g-grandfather's name was not Frank (on his portrait & other papers). Other names are not spelled correctly, dates are not right. But, you see the closeness of it all.

There are photos, letters, and other records to corroborate— most importantly, we discovered upon her death, that Grandmother never became a citizen of the US and as she spoke Italian fluently, we were not terribly surprized. She actually remained somewhat Catholic, despite her marriage to a Protestant. They spent a good deal of their married life in Kansas City, MO and in Mt. Vernon, MO. She died in the late 1960s and left part of "her father's" papers (regarding inheritance – they are worthless) and gem collection. We have immigration, baptismal, birth & death records of all members of this branch of the family and a pretty clear picture of the family's history. What we don't have is contact. Alan Roberts, my uncle (who is terribly ill and fragile these days) did a "history" of the family back to Italy about ten years ago, so the timeline is pretty clear. He says there may have been a half-brother somewhere in No. Carolina, but we never found a clear record.
Jessie always told Ethel that it was "the upstairs maid" that her husband left her for (whose name was not recorded in her journal). There was a child born before the divorce was final, and the reason for Jessie's flight westward. (If the rest of her journals were “stretched a bit” perhaps this would be “Belle”.) She went, first, to her parent’s home in Montreal, where she wrote several rather – shall I politely say – angry – letters (that we still have) concerning the child. She also had photos taken of herself and her children. (Two, a boy - older, and a girl, a baby; dated 1850.) Her first name was not Hannah. She remarried a doctor name "Leon" (who died, probably Dr. Lyons) but had no children by that marriage (too late in life). She finally settled in the Seattle area where her needlework became rather well known. She did other things as well, and was, by all accounts, a somewhat colorful character. There was a cousin (who I remember as an old lady) named Ila Roberts who was related by marriage and blood to both sides of the family, but you would have to ask mother *how.*

If the portrait of G-grandfather is indeed of him, I inherited his coloring and much of his likeness. They say he was adopted by the Probasco family under very unusual circumstances. He was very light, white haired even as a young man. There is much more about Jessie in the journals, if indeed, we are related, I will gladly share them.

I have several of G-grandmother's paintings and needlework examples. (They are lovely examples of 19th century style and design.) Her photos and portrait show a very stern *tiny* woman of dark complexion. Ethel looked very much like her, as well: olive skilled, black hair, and very dark, almost violet eyes. I'm told Paul looked like his father.

I have always wondered about Jessie's maiden name, as Ethel said Jessie was French, and her parents were in Montreal ... well, she doesn't look terribly French, either.

Second wife – we have no records (of course) as Jessie moved west and never spoke to any Probascos again (naturally). My mother was contacted some time ago by that branch of the family, and she says they settled in California—as I am in California, I would like to renew contact, find my lost cousins, and bury that rusting and decomposing hatchet. My Roberts cousins feel the same way.

We are also looking for Paul's family, and… well... the "scandal" happened a long, long time ago and it's time to reunite.

BTW: Jessie 's great-great Granddaughter, Thea is presently on the Gulf Coast visiting her father, and we are all sending good wishes her way. Lezlie





Re: Great Grandfather Probasco

Posted: 29 Aug 2005 11:15PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi Lezlie,

We may not be talking about the same family. The Frank Probasco that married Jessie Rinehimer (there are various spellings of this) was born in 1858 in Iowa. Jessie was born about 1859 in Iowa. Her father was Lanning A. Rinehimer born in Pennsylvania and his family originally immigrated from Germany.

In the 1880 Federal Census for Taylor County, Iowa it shows Frank and Jessie with a son, Paul, born Oct 1879 in Iowa. No Belle shows up. Jessie's parents were born in Pennsylvania.

I next find Jessie in the 1900 Federal Census in Kansas City, Jackson County, Missouri. She is the widow of Smith Lyon. Though Belle is listed as her daughter, she is not the daughter of Frank Probasco. Their son, Paul, is listed and shows as born in Oct 1879 again. There is also listed your Ethel N. Probasco b. Jul 1886 (though I have seen in later censuses that she could have been born between 1886 and 1889). From your information, it sounds like Frank Probasco was not her father. In fact, her father's name may not even be Probasco. Probasco is not Italian.

It is interesting, though, that Frank had a sister named Kit Carson Probasco who married a Garman. If Ethel N. was the daughter of Frank, then Kit would have been her aunt.

Your best bet is to take the family records and research various records to prove or disprove the data. A good start is to do the census research where your family was.

Ethel's husband was William F. Roberts, born about 1883 in Missouri. I found them in the 1930 Federal Census for Lawrence County, Missouri. Esther M. is listed as their daughter (along with other children) and would have been born about 1925 in Missouri.

Re: Great Grandfather Probasco

Lezlie (View posts)
Posted: 30 Aug 2005 1:00AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hello again!
I'm doing a bunch of research on cybernetics, and so, am on the Internet quite a bit right now-- feel free to move this conversation to my private e-mail and off the message boards.

We may not be from the same family ... but, it is tantalizing...there are a number of points in common that seem just too close to be a coincidence.

My mother's "Aunt Katharine" was called "Kit" after Kit Carson-- there was a connection that is very hazy. Uncle Alan would know, but he has Alzheimer’s and is in Florida…

By 1886-1900, Jessie was in Marin Head in California painting the headlands. We have a dated watercolor - several. There was a silver mining interest as well in California. (We have the records-- the paper is more valuable than anything else is...) While there, Ethel became enamored of a soldier, Leslie (yes-- a huge scandal when I was named. Note the alternate spelling), and was packed off to Kansas City to attend finishing school by Paul, her older brother. So, the timing is right. She met my Grandfather Roberts, the doctor, while there.

Jessie seems to have had bad luck with husbands...and, the trend seems to have continued, alas! Dr. Lyon seems to have "absconded" with her money, and she told everyone he was dead. (Maybe she did away with him...)

There were two Esthers, one died –there are actually three “Esthers” listed under three different birthdates in the family bible, the first is 1921 the last 1935. There was also a Maude and two boys who died. My mother is the second (we think) Esther, and last child of Ethel. She was christened Easter Morning, but it was changed when she "came out" at 16. I am asking my mom to contact you with anything further that she can add. (It was all a royal pain when she needed to get a passport…!)

You are correct – g-grandfather may not have been one of your Probascos – however, your site says that you have not –yet— done any research in Europe and people came in waves. The spelling may be different as well. I will ask my mother to look at the old records and see how it really is spelled. (Darn, I was hoping…)

It may be the same family and the story we have is garbled. Jessie had reason to cover some of her past; divorce was not especially acceptable back in those days. She was also Catholic. It doesn't explain the matter of Ethel’s citizenship either. An odd kettle of fish all around.

Well— the point of all of this was to find Paul's family & mend some fences— maybe that will happen, maybe not. Thanks for all of your help; I'll get back to you when I have more information. Lezlie

Re: Great Grandfather Probasco

Posted: 30 Apr 2007 11:52PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi, I have done tons of Probasco genealogy and don't think I've heard of this clan. Can you please email me with more details, to: shortstop54@msn.com? Maybe we could share info. My research does not show the Probasco family originating in Italy.
Gwen Fuller
Arlington VA

Re: Great Grandfather Probasco

Posted: 31 Mar 2011 2:12AM GMT
Classification: Query
Frank Probasco is also my great grandfather. His son Roy, was my grandfather.

Re: Great Grandfather Probasco

Posted: 9 May 2011 2:11AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi,
I have never heard of anyone surnamed Probasco who comes from Italy; we know the family to be from Breslau, Silesia. The ancestor of the Probasco family in America came from Breslau and emigrated to Brooklyn NY in 1654. You can learn more from my web site www.gwensarchive.com or from Nora Probasco's web site. I'd like to know more about your ancestor to see why his name was Probasco.
Gwen Fuller
Arlington VA
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