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Willy Pogany

Willy Pogany

Posted: 12 Apr 2004 7:09PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Pogany, Scott
Does anyone know of any descendants of Willy Pogany, an artist and illustrator. He was born in Hungary in1882. He married Lilian DORIS in London in 1908 and they moved to USA in 1914. They had two sons John William, born in London in1909 and Peter David Pogany later Scott. Peter died in California in 2001.

Re: Willy Pogany

Posted: 5 Jul 2012 5:42AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Feichtmann, Pogany, Kolisch
Are you still looking for descendants of Willy Pogany. He is my grandfather's half brother. His father was Jozsef Feichtmann and mother, Helena Kolisch. Willy and family changed their names to Pogany in the 1920s-1930s. Please let me know if you are still interested in this information and what you are researching.

Re: Willy Pogany

Posted: 5 Jul 2012 6:21PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi
The Willy Pogany in my extended family gave the name Vilmos Pogany when he married my second cousin Lillian Rose Doris in London in 1908. He gave his age as 26 years and his profession as Artist (Painter). He gave his father's name as Joseph Feichtmann Pogany and said he was deceased.
He went to the USA in 1914 and stayed there for the rest of his life as far as I know. In the 1930 census they were living with their two sons in New York. I think he and Lillian may have divorced later.
My main interest in him is in his mother-in-law, Eleanor Elizabeth Doris who was a Music Hall Artiste known as Lily Burnand. She was born in London in 1865. She married Wiliam Henry Doris and after his death she married Michel Kirschen in New York in 1893 but seems not to have lived with him for long. I would like to find out where and when she died.
Regards
Jim Garrod

Re: Willy Pogany

Posted: 5 Jul 2012 7:44PM GMT
Classification: Query
James,
Thank you for your reply to my message. Can you send me the document that has Willy's father's names as Joseph Feichtmann Pogany. This is a missing link in my search. Willy was born as Vilmos Feichtmann in 1882 in Hungary. His father Jozsef (Joseph)Feichtmann died in 1890. Feichtmann is considered a Jewish name and Willy and family changed their name to Pogany which is a common Hungarian name. I was told they did this so that he could show his paintings in Hungary. Lillian and her sons Peter and John stayed in the Los Angeles area after Willy divorced her so that he could marry Elaine Cox. There is lots of information on Willy Pogany on the internet. I added Eleanor's name to my tree and I will let you know if anything comes up. I called my parents they do not remember being told anything about Lillian's family.
Regards,
Sue Madsen

Re: Willy Pogany

Posted: 6 Jul 2012 10:43AM GMT
Classification: Query
Sue,
I am attaching the marriage certificate of Willy & Lillian which shows his father’s name. This would have been the name he gave to the registrar.
Lambeth and Stockwell are in South London and St Michaels Road still exists and is about two miles south of Westminster Abbey and the Houses of Parliament. You can find it on Google earth. The Doris family were living there at the time but by the time of the 1911 census Willy & Lillian were living nearby in Kimberley Road with John aged 1 year. Willy must have been doing well because they had a servant.
I had a go at sending this a few minutes ago but my connection seemed to drop out and I lost it.
If you do not get the attachment let me know and I will have another go.
Regards
Jim
Attachments:

Re: Willy Pogany

Posted: 6 Jul 2012 5:54PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Day, Doris, Kirschen, Simmons, Pogany, Kendall, Burnand
Lily Burnand
Lily was born Eleanor Elizabeth DAY in Mile End, London on 7 December 1865 daughter of Henry Day, a brewer’s drayman and Sarah Ann (nee WALKER). In 1880 aged around fifteen Lily started her Music Hall career with another girl as the Sisters BURNAND. She very soon went solo as Lily BURNAND and travelled to the Continent and seems to have toured there for a number of years. It was there that she met and married William Henry DORIS whose stage name was Will KENDALL. Their first child, Lillian, was born in Paris in about 1884. A second daughter, Marie Elizabeth was born in Poplar in 1890.
Will DORIS died in 1892 and the following year Lily married Michel KIRSCHEN while working in the USA. This marriage did not last long and she had another daughter in 1895. She registered this child first as Queenie SIMMONS as if she was the wife of the father, Asher SIMMONS. Some months later she re-registered her as Ellen Elizabeth KIRSCHEN without naming the father.
After Will Doris’s death Lily’s career blossomed and she became a well known star of the Music Halls for the next ten years or so, appearing all over Britain and visiting the USA a number of times.
Lily continued appearing on the halls and in 1923 she appeared in a show at the London Palladium, called “Veterans of Variety”. This show eventually toured Australia and New Zealand. In Australia she made some records of familiar songs. These are probably the only records she ever made.
Her subsequent life is a mystery. She may have joined her eldest daughter in the USA or her youngest in India. This is a piece I wrote for another purpose some time ago hope it is of interest. I am adding a couple of pictures of her for interest.
Incidentally I live in North London.
Jim

Attachments:

Re: Willy Pogany

Posted: 6 Jul 2012 11:46PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Day, Doris, Kirschen, Simmons, Pogany, Kendall, Burnand, Feichtmann
Jim,
Thank you for all the information and pictures. I spent some time this afternoon searching the name but I did not come up with anything new. I checked the US Census records for Lilian Pogany. Her mother was not staying with them when the 1910, 1920 or 1930 census were taken. It is great to have the marriage record of Willy Pogany and Lillian. We were in London last September for a week. We had a wonderful trip. We live in Southern California in the San Diego area.
Sue

Re: Willy Pogany

Posted: 9 Jul 2012 5:21AM GMT
Classification: Query
Jim,

I saw my parents today and they gave me a box of papers to go through. It is a long story but my father and uncle met with Peter Pagony about 8 years ago. Peter gave them some copies of letters and pictures of the Pagony family. In the box I found copies of pictures of Lily Burnand of which Peter appears to have sent the originals to the London Theater Museum, 1 E. Tavistork St., London WC2E7PA. The contact person was Mr. Andrew Kirk, Archivist, The Society of Theater Research in 1990. In another letter to a Mr. Jack Seaton, 32 Cairn Avenue, Ealing, London, W55HX, Peter talks about his Aunt Mary (Mary Doris 1883-1975)who was the niece of Elizabeth Day and William Doris but raised by them. It is an interesting letter. I will try to scan the documents this week and send you copies. In the letter he says that Marie (Bunny) has a daughter, Mrs. John Lamb, 3 Selwood Place, London, SW73QQ, Phone # 1-373-7467. He says that the third daughter was Queenie Cross (1896-1978) but he does not know anything about her. I did not find anything about when or where Lily spent her last years and died.

Sue

Re: Willy Pogany

Posted: 10 Jul 2012 6:34PM GMT
Classification: Query
Sue
Thanks very much for the information and please thank your parents for looking after those papers. I have written a snail mail letter to Mrs Lamb as someone called Lamb appears at that address on the current telephone directory. I will let you know if I get a response.
I know a bit about Queenie Cross (nee Simmons/Kirschen). She was born on 31 December 1895 and registered twice under different names. I will scan the certificates for you. You will note that almost everything is different except the date of birth and the mother’s maiden name. The addresses are in fact only a few hundred yards apart but, crucially in different registration districts! I have a feeling that someone told Lily that she should always use her legal name on official documents.
Queenie had a child on 30 July 1915 whom she named Eleanor . She did not name a father but called herself “Queenie Elizabeth Simmons a Music Hall Artiste”. I do not know what became of this child. She may have had it adopted but there was no formal adoption in Britain at that time.
She somehow went to India and there, in Madras, on 14 December 1927, she married Percival Cross. He worked on the railways in India and they stayed there until Indian Independence in 1947. During the war Percival was in the Army but still running the railway. They had no children of their own but at this time they adopted a baby, June Mary Ann Higgs, whose parents were apparently both married but not to one another! After Independence they returned to the UK (and this is the infuriating bit) they lived, in the 1970s, about half a mile from where I lived. But I knew nothing of these stories at the time except that my father had had an aunt who was on the Music Halls. Queenie died on 29 October 1973.
I think Peter Pogany used the surname Scott latterly as Mary Doris’s will dated 1968 names him as “Peter David Scott formerly Pogany” He seems to have died in 2001. Did his mother, perhaps , remarry someone called Scott? Peter seems also to have sent similar information to Max Tyler of the Music Hall Society, as he sent me a copy of part of it back in 2004.
If it is more convenient you could send those scans direct to my e-mail garrod@hotmail.com.
Best Wishes
Jim
Attachments:

Re: Willy Pogany

Posted: 22 Sep 2012 10:01AM GMT
Classification: Query
Success!!! I wrote to Mrs Lamb immediately after you sent your last message in July and heard nothing and assumed she was no longer at that address. However yesterday I received a very nice letter from her (dated 1st August!)confirming that we are indeed cousins (once removed). I hope to meet her and will let you know what I find out.
One passage in her letter reads "My American Uncle, Willy Pogany, who her daughter married, painted a lovely portrait of her (Lily)on a fan.
Kind Regards
Jim
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