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PAYER Family - Clarence Creek / Rockland, Ontario Canada

Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: PAYER Family - Clarence Creek / Rockland, Ontario Canada

Posted: 11 Jan 2014 8:36PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 11 Jan 2014 8:47PM GMT
I would love to help you !

Do you have any idea where they were living ? any place of birth for one of the child ?

Jacynthe

ps Ok, found the family in Cumberland and maybe Muskota, Ontario. Did you find any of the Census for this family ?

Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: PAYER Family - Clarence Creek / Rockland, Ontario Canada

Posted: 12 Jan 2014 5:24PM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi,

I'm afraid this mariage is lost forever. And also this name is not easy to find, so many variations.

I found only one baptism in Clarence, Julie Anne, see the link. The godparents are brother and sister of Jean-Baptiste. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-24485-4964-43?...
I've tried to find other baptisms for the children, to get some informations about Ann Whelan's family, but no luck.

The funniest variation for Payer, is Piyea, 1861 Census http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1861/jpg/4108337_00426....

We find Baptist and Ann family, and next door, Magloire Des La Rivière (Larivière) who married Julie Ann Pynea, Jean-Baptiste's sister.

1871 Census, they are named Payette, http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1871/jpg/4396628_00550.jpg

and next page http://data2.collectionscanada.ca/1871/jpg/4396628_00551.jpg

Is it your family tree we find on Ancestry ?

Jacynthe

Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: PAYER Family - Clarence Creek / Rockland, Ontario Canada

Posted: 12 Jan 2014 8:05PM GMT
Classification: Query
My tree isn't posted. Have all the information & documentation on J.B. & Ann Whelan, all their children, all their children's children, all JB's siblings & all their children. Have all the info. on Delphis, Alexandré and Julie Ann, (the sister) from the time of birth to time of death. Don't have Adolphe & Sophie as brother & sister to J.B. I could never connect them. Do you have document of their births? J.B. is 1st child of J.B. & Julie St. Louis b. Dec. 1832 at Montebello. Also b. Montebello is Delphis & sister, Julie Ann. She is not listed in the Montebello Repertoire I purchased but is in the Drouin Montebello registers indexed under the name Bayer & I have the document of her birth (b. 1839 I believe). Couldn't find the b. record for their sibling Alexandré, the b. document on Ancestry says he was b. at Black Bay..wherever that is! Also have all the information for J.B.'s sister, Julie Ann who m. Magloire LaRiviere & have all information on their offspring. Ann Whelan apparently (according to 1901 census) came to Canada in 1849 so no doubt one of the Famine Irish. My thinking was she & JB met & married at Clarence Creek where, unfortunately, there are many errors in the records, I'm sure many ommissions and there are many errors in the publication Clarence Creek Notre Histoire produced for the 150th anniv. of the church. I corresponded with Liette Drouin at the church in the hope that errors would be corrected or notations made but errors were further compounded & original publications of irecords/nformation misread/mistranscribed. I read those St. Felicite tapes so many times I've lost count. e.g. J.B. & Ann Whelan had a son named Wm. James b. 1858. He's in the St. Felicite registers as William James Pick...?.with the incorrect parents. Another child of theirs is listed to J.B. & a mother who is married to someone else. When I secured a copy of the birth document for the child the mother is listed correctly as Ann Whelan so you see, and I'm sure you know, how diligent one must be in their search. There was one other woman named Whelan at Clarence Creek, namely Susan Whelan. She married a Pierre Paradis. In one of the records she's recorded as Susan "Wheeler" but elsewhere I found her original marriage document & she's "Whalen" but no parents listed. I thought she must be related to Ann since they seem to be the only two Whelan's at Clarence Creek but hit another brick wall there too. I have a photo of Ann & her son, James, she is elderly. My father only knew she came from Cork, Ireland & he had told me her name was Sarah. All documentation records her as Ann. My father was 8 years of age when she died & I would have thought he'd know the name of his grandmother since his parents & siblings lived in close proximity to JB & Ann and for a few years actually lived with them in the same house. All information given me by my father has proven to be correct except for "Sarah" being Ann & he thought his grandfather (JB) was b. in France! Ann is a big mystery And...apparently the name Payie (which is the name originating I believe in France but can be found all across Europe), was/is pronounced PiYea. (I'm thankful for the change in spelling/pronounciation!) For a long time JB&Ann used the name Paye. My father had 2 siblings births registered in Paye b. 1896/97. I have a land document registered to JB & Ann dated 1881 where the name is Payie...so somebody knew something about this name although JB&Ann both signed with "X". I appreciate your help. Thanks so much. I belonged to SFOHG for a number of years and even with their assistance I couldn't find a marriage for JB or anything about Ann...maybe they weren't married but I find that hard to swallow since they were very devout Catholics....and somehow Ann Whelan got from Ireland to Canada - so she's gotta be somewhere!

Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: PAYER Family - Clarence Creek / Rockland, Ontario Canada

Posted: 12 Jan 2014 10:19PM GMT
Classification: Query
Woaww you did a great work on this family.

Adolphe, Dolphis, Delphis is the same name. Dolphis or Delphis is a short name for Adolphe or Adolphis. Sophie, I don't know who she is, you are right, no information on her.

Alexander ? I found Alexis, born in 1836, baptism June 25th, 1837, in l'Orignal. He was 7 months, https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-24485-23124-85...

Alex, Alexis, Alexandre or Alexander is the same surname. I'm glad I found something you didn't.

I'm sure that Jean-Baptiste and Ann Whelan were married, but like you wrote, the parish register for this area are quite messy. If you have a look to the link I pasted above, you will find, after 1837 some records from 1835 that the priest found and copied from loose sheets.

Ann Whelan came for sure from the Big Irish Famine, 1845-1849

Thanks again for you help ! Have a Happy Year 2014.
Jacynthe

Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: PAYER Family - Clarence Creek / Rockland, Ontario Canada

Posted: 13 Jan 2014 2:12AM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for this link to Alex's birth. I've never seen these registers & didn't know they were available on Family Search. I bought a lot of Repertoires including Prescott/L'Original, Grenville, and others but could never find Alex or JB&Ann. As for Adolphe, I've never seen a record where Delphis/Dolphis was referred to as Adolphe. Does that b. record say he is anything other than the Godfather? For some reason I had in my head that Adolphe & Sophie were husband & wife but have no proof of this and have no idea who they are. I saw Sophie in U.S. - I think Texas but I haven't done any geneaology for so long I can't remember everything I once knew, didn't record but is somewhere is one of my many files on this family. You have certainly given me the push needed to to get back into this & do something with my Tree & research. Thank you again...& happy 2014 to you too!

Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: PAYER Family - Clarence Creek / Rockland, Ontario Canada

Posted: 13 Jan 2014 3:13AM GMT
Classification: Query
Adolphe and Sophie Payette were the godfather and godmother of Julie-Anne. Nothing else is mentionned about these people. The godparents are not always a couple. Delphis (Adolphe) was married to Marie Ménard. Sophie might be a niece, cousin, or an error.

The way a name or surname is written depends on the priest. If this priest feel it is more official to write the complete name of Dolphis, he may decided to write Adolphe. Also, most of these records were written after the ceremonies, in the priest's office. The people were gone and he may had forgot the real name of one of the persons. That's another reason why there is so many errors in the registers.

There is the link for Ontario Catholic Churches registers : https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-24485-4964-43?...

This one for Quebec Catholic Churches registers https://familysearch.org/search/image/index#uri=https%3A//fa...

All free and better quality.

Jacynthe

Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: Objet : Re: PAYER Family - Clarence Creek / Rockland, Ontario Canada

Posted: 13 Jan 2014 5:36PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thank you for these links. I have the record for Julie Ann... 99% of my information is backed up by documentation. I don't think Adolphe is Delphis. I think Adolpe (Adolphus) & Sophie, are brother & sister, especially since they have the same surname and women are ususally recorded in their maiden name. I believe they are the children of Jean Baptiste, the brother of Louis. On another matter...in the St. Felicite record marriage record Marie Menard's mother is recorded as Marguerite & her sister, Octavie's mother as Catherine. Marie's name is actually Marie Marguerite and the mother's name is Catherine as recorded in Octavie's record. I have the children b. to Louis Menard and Catherine Duschene but looking for a marriage of Alexandré to Elise Menard. Haven't been able to connect Elise to Marie or Octavie unless Elise is a short for something else. Is there some way for you to connect to me via my email address? I'd prefer to not publicly post some information. You know more about how these message boards work than I do so if you would be kind enough to contact me directly it would be appreciated.
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