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John Oak(e)s Marlboro MA 1732

John Oak(e)s Marlboro MA 1732

Posted: 12 Jul 2006 12:02PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 13 Oct 2006 7:12PM GMT
Surnames: Oak Oake Oakes Oaks
My line is stalled with John Oak(e)s "of Marlboro" who married Experience Walcott (Walcut) 1732 in Salem, MA. John was in Petersham, MA from abt 1738 to 1748 when he removed to Sunderland, MA where he own/operated a grist mill. He died in 1767 and his son, Jonathan, sold the mill in 1768.
My line is fully documented back to John, with one weak link (1927 Town Clerk's letter} through John's son David. No one has been able to link my John to any of the other Oak(e)(s) lines in MA.
If you are an Oak(e)(s) with a well documented lineage to or through MA in the 17th Century, I would be interested in discussing genetic genealogy testing, off line.
Floyd Oakes fmoakes@aol.com

Re: John Oak(e)s Marlboro MA 1732

herb (View posts)
Posted: 19 Jul 2006 4:25AM GMT
Classification: Query
Jul 12 2006
"My line is stalled with John Oak(e)s "of Marlboro" who married Experience Walcott (Walcut) 1732 in Salem, MA"

Posted by Floyd Oakes on July 24, 1999 at 21:34:27:

My Oakes family line is pretty well documented back to John Oakes, b. abt 1700, of
Marlborough MA, married Experience Walcott of Salem, MA 1732.

Does any one have any information on how my John fits in with the other Oakes in the
MA area?"

Yes

Re: John Oak(e)s Marlboro MA 1732

Posted: 19 Jul 2006 11:53AM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 13 Oct 2006 7:12PM GMT
Would care to share that information?

Re: John Oak(e)s Marlboro MA 1732

herb (View posts)
Posted: 19 Jul 2006 1:14PM GMT
Classification: Query

"care to share that information?"

"Several points to be noted"
Most of these (points, that is]
are representative of the kinds of thinking that one learns by absorbing
current writings of genealogical scholars. The kind of thinking and writing which was
certainly NOT done by those who wrote late 19th and early 20th century town & early 20th
century reminiscenses.

1) that bothers me just statistcally.
Marlboro was one of the very first towns with Vital Record entries for Nathaniel's family.
(Marlboro was one of the towns which suffered GREATLY during King Phillip's war,
by the way)
I'm not absolutely sure of this, but perhaps first, after Nat's marriages in Concord,
when Nat & Mary's son Nat b. Marlboro 1703.
(There are no records of Nat's birth. Henry simply SPECULATES on c1645, based
on the know age of Mehitable -born Sudbury, 1645)
So, WHAT is the LIKElihood of a "foreigner" with the same very usual name at the
very same time, particular when it is known that Nat and Mary had a son
John born 1714/15 who was born 1714/15 who could be a candidate as h. of Experience?
That's just a question
2)HLO doesn't attribute John to "the other Oakes"
family in central Mass. Nor does HLO mention him
as being of Marlboro in any fashion
What HLO sez is
There was another John Oaks of Sunderland and Petersham,
erroneously identified with our John by some writers - the error resulting in no
little confusion and wasted labor.
(now back to Nathaniel's John, HLO continues to write ...
"The widow had six children by her second
husband -John Butler- born in Shrewsbury. In 1766 the family removed to
Winchester, N.H." in a separate section ...
"Third, the descendants of William, a traditional immigrant from Wales, and whose sons
William and probably John lived in Worcester County, Ma., at the same time as our
ancestors. They were doubtless remote kinsmen"
So, HLO is identifying Pere & fils Bills as of the other family and "probably"
John -but, AGAIN, no mention of Marlboro.
These two facts leave me adither.
And, once again, Henry was a respected PROFESSIONAL Historial with many, many books
to his name. (yet even HE -well 'our' -I really CAN'T be so presumptuous as to say 'my'
book now, can I?- has some errors. It's easy to find errors of a
GIANT, when you are standing on his shoulders)
3) Henry doesn't even MENTION one of the Oakes families of Massachusetts.
and this OTHER family had SCADS of people!
4) I found everything I know, infer (or speculate) about "our" -I really CAN'T be so
presumptuous as to say 'my' family of Oak/s/es by scouring through the entire set of Mass
Vital Records (and even genealogies and Town Histories, for they DO often have
suggestive CLUES), over the last twenty years or so
book now, can I?
5) The MOST important point of all: (this isn't MY point -it's the point of scholars in ALL fields -
honored mostly by being violated.
NEVER publish information -and on-line is the WIDEST possible recipient of "published" material
informations which can't be defended with QUALITY documentation.
There are quite an impressive array of data THROUGHOUT the state
which reveal SUGGESTIVE CLUES as to the origins of John
of Sunderland & Petersham. (unfortunately, few have the time to
pore through this VAST set of resources OR the discipline to refrain from publishing
prior to research. (the 19th and early 20th century writers certainly didn't
c.f. History of Sunderland and the Walcott "genealogy" cited previously.
unfortunately, no on-line peer-review

But in its very modest way, 'this' is a kind of "peer" review.

Bottom line
I'm not willing to "share" because it isn't "information" it's speculation at this point.
(founded on OBSESSIVEly poring through HUNDREDS of documents over 20+years
My point in writing
1)to urge folks to "look further my friend
2)Discourage 'premature' publishing
3)DNA is an encouring developement. It's useful to show familyness" (but damn little
else" And DON'T FORGET ABOUT NPE's . All one needs is ONE NPE, and
the ENTIRE genetic trail is BLOWN away.
Virtually ALL family trees have NPEs

One final point there are many many on-line sources which Henry didn't have access to,
a) he was writing from the hills of California
b) he was pretty sick
c) no computers.
d) the sources "were'nt there (or anywhere else)
These all make for daunting work.
(which is why the vast, vast vast majority of the 65,000,000 now involved in amateur
genealogy will NEVER find what they are looking for. And will never never even
know it)
best of luck.
BUT be very careful to recognize when luck is giving FALSE LEADS.
That said:
Serendipity is the mother's milk of all research!
d the "other" family and "probably"

Re: John Oak(e)s Marlboro MA 1732

Posted: 19 Jul 2006 1:55PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 13 Oct 2006 7:12PM GMT
Herb,
Thank you very much for "sharing" want you have learned from your "OBSESSIVEly poring through HUNDREDS of documents over 20+years". I also followed with interest your series of posts on GENEALOGY-DNA-L@rootsweb.com. I'm sure your contributions there were also widely appreciated.
Floyd

Re: John Oak(e)s Marlboro MA 1732

herb (View posts)
Posted: 19 Jul 2006 8:43PM GMT
Classification: Query
What I "shared" there was immaturity and hostility.
What I shared here, was the experience of
a scholar.
It's very very hard work Floyd.
Very hard work!
Druggery
Very very few people can sustain the efforts necessary to accomplish much in genealogy.
Not because brilliance is necessary.
Because HARD HARD diligent boring patient
sweat is necessary
(and a lot of luck)
I on the other hand -because I'm QUITE weird, luv it!

Very few would.
There ARE NO SHORT CUTS.
(particularly no short cuts in books written 100 years
ago, although useful as CLUES)
THAT's what I've shared here.
THAT is a PRECIOUS gift!


The comprises that most most most make
result in shoddy results.
It's inevitable, can't be helped
That's the only KNOWLEDGE I have to share about
the 'REAL' line of John Oakes of SUNDERLAND
I don't KNOW what his REAL line is.
At the moment I'm only GUESSING (informed guessing to be sure.
If YOU want to get to a position where you can GUESS
informedly

then follow some of the SUGGESTIONS I made.
Start by ...

If not, then a different hobby may be indicated.
And those VERY GENUINCE and VERY SINCERE
pieces of advice are appropriate to anybody in any area
whether it's
genealogy
model airplanes
pocket billiards
professional baseball players
.
.

If you aspire to success

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