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John Loy/John Henry Loy

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John Loy/John Henry Loy

Grady Loy (View posts)
Posted: 948411952000
I am a descendant of the John Loy who lived in Frederick County, Virginia ca 1771 - 1798 and who had among others sons Daniel, John and Conrad and daughters Maria Elizabeth, Mary Elizabeth and Catherine.

Much of what is believed today about this person is included in the book the Loy Family in America by Stewart and Lynch. I appreciate that the book has improved Loy research a great deal and certainly was the point where I started, but there are some things in their account of the family of John Loy of Frederick County Virginia that I think need to be looked at and most probably corrected.

The Loy Family in America states that John Loy of Virginia was the same person as Johann Heinrich Ley, brother of Hans Yurigh Ley (John George Loy) of Frederick County Maryland. There are several reasons why I have come to believe that this is not so (though John Loy could be a brother to the other two).


First, when the Palatine immigrants anglicized their names they almost always chose the middle name. The first name (Johannes or Christoph or Maria or Anna or whatever) was a name taken from a saint and the most common explanation heard today is that it was given to "confuse the devil". Be that as it may, Johann Heinrich, when he anglicized his name, would have ended up as a Henry or possibly a John Henry but almost certainly never as a "John". However John Loy from the time he settled in Brecknock Twp, Berks (1752 tax list) went by "John" in official documents and "Johannes" or "Hanias" in church documents. He never once that I have been able to find ever called himself Henry or John Henry.


A Johannes Ley did come to America on the Loyal Judith in 1740. He was born in 1721. Johann Heinrich Ley was said to have been born in 1720.

It was said that Johannes Heinrich might have gone back for a visit or school But I doubt HAns George would have brought him on what was then an uncertain and perilous venture just to send him back for a visit (Alone as a teenager no less). And if he got any schooling in Germany it was not evident in his will which was in English, almost certainly drafted for him by a Virginia solicitor and signed not with his name but his mark (if I recall correctly) and I believe he signed his mark when he got off the Loyal Judith as well. I don't say that noone who used a mark instead of a signture could read (I doubt it was that cut and dried) but a man with a formal education in those days generally wanted to show it and there was no better place than in the signature of one's name to documents. I believe both Muhschlagel and John George Loy wrote in German in their own hand. There is no evidence that John Loy ever did.

Johannes Ley on the Loyal Judith was, however, almost certainly the John Loy of Brecknock. One point of verification is that most of the baptisms for which we have a record of John's children were by the family of Daniel Kieffer. Daniel's wife Catherine and her family, the Lindemanns were on the Loyal Judith in 1740 as well. (I think it likely that Daniel Kieffer was the baptismal sponsor and therefor namesake of Daniel Loy though that record has not been found yet)


Further difficulties with the Loy Family in America are the suggestion that John would have relocated back to Pennsylvania from Maryland. John first appears in church records in January 1750 in Muddy Creek Reformed Church (East Cocalico/Brecknock) in the baptismal record of his daughter Maria Elizabetha (sponsors Heinrich Shlebbach and wife and Maria Elizabetha Feder Shlebbach, her namesake). There was a hiatus in Muddy Creek Reformed church records in 1749 when they were between ministers or something of that sort and it is likely that a newly married Johannes settled there in 1749. When Johannes came to America at 19 he may not have had much money and may have had to work for several years on the farm of a friend or relative to earn enough money to marry and buy a farm. That was a very common pattern.


The Loy Family in America suggestst that Johann Heinrich was with John George as a child and a young man. John George moved from the East Cocalico area (some records suggest he was at Warwick) to Frederick Cy, Maryland and Johann Heinrich would presumably have gone with him. There are no records of a Ley in the Muddy Creek Reformed Church records or local tax records for the intervening 9 years. The suggestion is then that Johann Heinrich went back to Pennsylvania, probably around 1750 and started out fresh. Given that Johann Heirnich was in an area (MD) where his family already lived and that land was far cheaper in Maryland and cheaper yet in Virginia, this move north and east (in the absence of an inheritance or to move in with family, neither the case here it would seem) would have been very unlikely.

The hypotheisis has been raised that John's wife Mary Elziabetha was a daughter of Johann Conrad Kumpf. Though I have never seen any record to this effect, it is possible that Johann Heinrich Ley was married to Maria Elizabetha Kumpf (who was born not in Germany before 1715 but in New Holland Lancaster PA in 1734 or 1735. The Kemp family has never found any record of her marriage to anyone else at least). And Johann Conrad Kumpf was a neighbor and sometime business partner (in a transaction or two) of John George Loy. There is no evidence Kumpf ever knew John Loy or Mathias Loy -his other putative son in law- except when Kumof and Matthias were together on the ship Samuel (best evidence now is that Matthias Loy's wife was a Day and not a Kumpf at all. Matthias wife was born well before Joahnn Conrad Kumpf and Anna Maria Feuerbach were supposed to have been married)

So I doubt Johannes Heinrich Ley, whether he married a Kumpf, or not would have relocated 100 miles back up the Great Road to Pennsylvania and even if Johann Heinrich Ley married a Kumpf I can find no evidence to suggest that Johannes Ley/John Loy of Brecknock -assuming for the moment they are the same- married a Kumpf.


With regard to the Kumpfs, who were from Untergimpern in Kraichgau Baden Wurtembourg, they were never at New Goshenhoppen but settled instead in New Holland, Lancaster where church records amply record their presence. They moved to Maryland about the same time as John George Loy.

KUMPFS and Daniel Loy's in-laws

Henry Kumpf who substituted at Winchester for Daniel Loy during the revolutionary war was not a relative of Johann Conrad Kumpf as the Loy family in America would have it nor a sister of John Loy's wife. He was a son of George Kumpf (Asbach, Kraichgau, Germany came on the Dragon in 1749). George had a relative, perhaps a brother, Heinrich who was at New Goshenhoppen and a brother Daniel as well. These Kumpfs were associated with the Muhlschlagels through Muhlschlagel'S wife Anna Maria Emmert. Anna Maria Emmert was daughter of Johann Phillip Emmert (probably from Eppingen, Germany) and Anna Catherina Kamm. Anna Catherina Kamm was daughter of Joahnn Caspar Kamm (He was from Eppingen) and Anna Catherina Frankh (probably Boxburg, southern suburb of Heidelburg) who were early German migrants to PA and charter members of New Goshenhoppen Reformed Church. Andreas Muhlschlagel, schoolmaster, violinist, and like as not circuit preacher in Virginia, came in 1750 on the Patience and was son of Johann Heinrich Muhlschlagel, also a schoolmaster, and Maria Appolonia Hamman (Paul Hamman and Anna Muller) of Lachen Speyerdorf, Pfalz, Germany. Some of Andreas Muhlschlagel's Hamman cousins from Lachen(notably one Thomas) had already settled in PA and were attending New Goshenhoppen as early as 1733. After arriving, Andreas soon married Anna Maria Emmert and the aforementioned Heinrich Kumpf (the relative of George, not the substitute) married a sister Catherina Maria Emmert at about the same time at New Goshenhoppen (1750 or 1751). J. Caspar Kamm had been dead since before 1740 and J. Phillip Emmert seems to have been the new paterfamilias so to speak (he went back to Germany with George Pfalzgraff - another brother in law - in 1740 to dispose of J. Caspar Kamm's interests there and they returned to America on the same ship St. Mark that Martin Loy of North Carolina arrived on). Emmert and his extended family and friends moved to Richmond township Berks on the other side of present day Reading from Brecknock where they remained until about 1771 when those surviving (George Kumpf and J. Phillip Emmert had apparently died) relocated to Frederick County, Virginia and then very shortly after that to Hampshire County, Virginia. George Kumpf had had a son Heinrich in 1757 (IGI data) and the Hampshire County man by that name who collected a pension for serving in the Revolution -I can only assume as Daniel Loy's substitute- was born in 1757. Anna Maria Feuerbach Kumpf (Johann Conrad's wife)would have been 60 at that point so the family group sheet in the Loy Family in America for the Kumpf family is almost entirely in error.
Though Untergimpern and Asbach are about a 10 minute drive from each other, it appears as if Johann Conrad Kumpf's antescedents were Swiss whereas George was a true son of the local Kraichgau region.

The history of the Muhlschlagel migration can be followed in a very brief German diary Andreas kept to record the birth dates, birth locations and godparents of his children (Christina Muhlschlagel, Daniel's wife was actually Anna Christina)

The other points to be served by a discussion of Daniel Loy's in laws are:


There is no evidence either that the Muhlschlagels knew the Loys in Berks County or that Daniel "went back to East Greenwich" or anywhere else to bring his in-laws out. To do so he would have had to have gone before 1772 and by the births of his children and the age of his wife it does not appear as if he married her until 1775, three years after the Muhslchlagels had moved to Virginia. Both families were probably part of a big local move from Berks to Frederick at that point though I do not know the details of it. It was not the first or last of such moves and I think they were occasioned by wealthy people selling off land to settlers.


The only one who "went back to Pennsylvania" was Daniel's brother in law George Muhslchlagel who went back during the revolution as a soldier. During that time it appears he went to visit relatives and brought back a bride who was a Loy (Catherine) who has been tentatively identified as a granddaughter of Matthias Loy. That is chronologically very difficult (the oldest she could have been was a very early 14) though not strictly spaking impossible. What is more likely is that George married a woman from New Goshenhoppen congregation. There was a Ley/Leh family there at that time who had a daughter of the same name and a more appropriate age about whom nobody today seems to have any idea what happened.


The Loy move to Pennsylvania appears to have occurred between May 1771 (when Conrad Loy's baptism occurred at Allegheny Reformed Church at Brecknock - sponsors Conrad Hertz, his namesake, son of J. Phillip Herts and Susannah Hautz and Anna Kieffer daughter of Daniel Kieffer and Catherine Lindeman. Both were single and married other people later) and the most likely year for Daniel's marriage to Anna Christina Muhlsclagel in 1775 - they had a child by 1776.


The Loy Family in America records that John Loy moved his family from East Colcalico Township to Brecknock Township in about 1767.
In fact as the 1752 tax list of Brecknock Berks shows, John had lived there from the beginning. What happened was simply that in 1767 the parhishioners of Muddy Creek REformed Church who lived in Brecknock Twp Berks broke away -amicably - and founded the Allegheny German Reformed Church. A 1767 or 1769 tax list inducated that John farmed 50 acres at Brecknock Twp, Berks. Not a lot, but Pennsylvania land was pretty expensive by the time John settled down in 1749. This may be one of the major reasons for his relocation ca 1771/1772. But there was no move in the 1760's from East Cocalico to Brecknock.


I do not know the exact date or cause of John's move to Virginia. I also do not know the precise date of Daniel Loy's birth, baptism or marriage or the circumstances of his meeting his wife.

I do not know where John Loy was or what he was doing between 1740 and 1749. I also do not know what part of Germany or Switzerland he was from. The Kieffers (Oberalben), Shlebbachs (Cleeburg or some detached village owned by Cleeburg) and Lindemanns (Unkenbach)were from the northern part of West Pfalz south of Ingeleim on the Rhine (Glan River area). The Hertz, Hautz and related families ( such as Fisser all of whom may have been tied to the George Hott/Magdalena Shantz family whose sons, John and Samuel, married John Loy's duaghters in Virginia) seem to have been from an area slightly north and east of Lachen near the Rhine and Mannheim. As to John himself there has been no clue as to where he might have started unless it was one of these areas or perhaps the Kraichgau area of Baden (Heidelburg/ Mossbach/ Neckarbischofsheim/ Eppingen/ Heilbronn/ Bad Wimpfen etc) which apprently had many Loys/Leys and provided many Palatine immigrants.

I hope that gives people some more to work with. If anybody has some of the above information I would be very grateful if you would be willing to share that with me. I will be happy to provide more specific dates or share specific source information I have or have access to on request.


Grady Loy
Yokohama Japan

SubjectAuthorDate Posted
Grady Loy 948411952000 
RLoy9582 949572493000 
RLoy9582 949572539000 
Grady E. Loy 949609035000 
RLoy9582 949645820000 
beeswalther 1009936544000 
RLoy9582 1010347115000 
RLoy9582 949645825000 
MargeMero 955213789000 
Jennifer Loy 1491604424000 
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