Are you a Kupcsik? Interesting lead that might just be a case-cracker!
Hi all, I recently cracked a longtime family mystery, and the information was very hard to come by. My maiden name is Joanna Copjec. But for the past 2-3 generations, we had no clue what our original surname was. We knew Copjec was unlikely to be our original name, since we are the only Copjecs in the world and also the spelling was not typical of a Czech surname. We knew only that my father's grandparents, Peter and Julia, had settled in Bristol Connecticut after arriving from Czechoslovakia in the early 1900's to 1910's. but there are no records, anywhere, for COPJEC, and we didn't have their parents names or the names of any siblings. After a painstaking process of manually searching handwritten census records from 1940 (because we had an address for them that year) backwards, I realized that the same family lived in that same house since the 1920 census, but that despite having the same first names and birthdates, their last name changed drastically over the years. I've also found draft registrations and ship manifests that have been proven to belong to my great grandfather Peter, but they all have various different spellings of the surname as well. Also, their actual birthplaces are Austria/Hungary/Czechoslovakia, depending on the year. As many of us who have researched this part of the world know, these places have had an almost constant shift of boundaries. One year the same village would be considered a part of Austria, and considered Hungary the next year. Then it became Czechoslovakia, and it is now split into the Czech Republic and Hungary. Anyway, between the 1880s and the 1950's, we have been called Kopscak, Kopscek, Kopcsik, Kopsik, Kupcsik, Kopak, Kupelick, Kupelica, Kupchick, Kupchak and finally, Copjec, which is the name both my great grandparents ended up buried with. It seems likely my great grandfather was born either Kopcsak or Kopcsik or even Kopcsyk. Perhaps there was even originally a Z in there. Anyway, it seems different siblings and cousins "Americanized" or evolved the name in their own way...we have even speculated that since most of them spoke almost no English and had no understanding of the English alphabet, etc, they would simply state their names and whatever record keeper (census taker, etc) would just guess at the spelling based on the phonetic pronunciation, and this spelling would follow the family member through the next phase of their life. It seems almost certain that siblings of this same original family each ended up with their own variation of the last name- their own spelling. But if you look carefully, you will notice similar first names...I.e., they seemed to favor naming their children after their own siblings. My great grandfather had children named Anna, Mary, Peter, John (my grandfather) and George. There are also people with each of these first names and some variation of Kopcsak/Kupcsik as their last name. Their birthdays are close enough in year to surmise that they may be siblings...perhaps cousins. And they all arrived within a couple years of each other from the region that would later officially become Czechoslovakia...either Austria or Hungary. It seems they split and settled mostly in Connecticut (Bristol, New Britain, Bridgeport, etc), and perhaps Ohio, New York/New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Because of the evolving surname, unfortunately, a lot of conclusions must rely on guesswork backed up by likely facts. But there will probably never be absolute certainty to some of these conclusions. It would be mind blowing if all of us who share these probable ancestors had DNA profiles done to confirm the link, but for now, we can do our best to put the puzzle together. If anyone thinks they may be related to my family based on a similar name or any of the variations I cited above, please email me. Joannamichelleheath@gmail.com
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Re: Are you a Kupcsik? Interesting lead that might just be a case-cracker!
Hi Up to 1918 it was Austria-Hungary http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/austhung.htm where 12 different languages were spoken. After the fall of A-H empire several new countries were formed and one was Czechoslovakia [full map www.cgsi.org ] After WWll Ruthenia went to Soviet Union and presently Ukraine. In 1993 Czechoslovakia separated into Czech Republic and Slovak Republic. It would seem that your COPJEC is an Americanized version and thus when pronounced by an English speaking person it sounds like one of the spellings that you mentioned. Of course, LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION is the big piece to your research puzzle. Your ancestors Byzantine Catholic than most likely eastern region of Slovakia or Ruthenia is where your research will take you. Do you have a place of birth? The manifests were written at the port of departure from a document presented to the shipping clerk by our ancestor. No one changed the spelling but your ancestor. in 1995 in Slovakia in these locations KOPC'IK http://slovniky.korpus.sk/?w=kopcik&c=n739Hungarian KOPCSIK is Slovak KOPC'IK. KUPC'IK in Slovak but KUPCSIK in Hungarian. www.iabsi.com/gen/public
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How to...... http://www.geneasearch.com/beginner.htmhttp://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rwguide/http://www.tedpack.org/goodpost.htmlI'm sure you have started going backwards from yourself and gathered documents on each generation. Go back step by step and mark off what you have and take a second look at the papers. Do not get stuck on the family stories as for now they are no good to you. I think they just confuse. Was your ancestor Byzantine Catholic? Hopefully the Alien Registration Form will provide you a location. You can have a 10 different spelling of your ancestor's surname but it is the LOCATION of where he/she was born that will take your research into the correct country. Sometimes the godparents for the first child were from old country. Take a look at their surname and a location. The clue should be in the church of the first US born child. Zlatica
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Thats so odd that you just asked their religion - I was on the phone with Holy Trinity Byzantine Catholic Church in New Britain, CT literally as I was reading this. Yes, Greek Catholic, and I had the same thought this morning and called the vital records department of their hometown in CT and inquired about the existance of their first son's birth certificate. This is actually the first time Ive run into an issue - they wont let me order the birth certificate until 2016 (which will make the record 100 years old) because im just a niece, not a "direct ancestor". Which is silly, since i was able to legally obtain his entire medical file from the same state. Any way around this rule?
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You're right - family lore has proven fairly worthless in my case. The story we always heard was that my great grandmother intended to set out for America with her father (who I now have a clue was named "Andrew Gerrich" - different spelling, im sure) and that her father died while climbing over a wall on his way to the port of departure. Interesting story, but apparant rubbish, as I was able to get a 1925 case file from social services that states that my great grandmother told the worker that both her parents, aged 82 and 80 respectively at the time, were alive and well in Austria, living on her brother Charles' farm. This may or may not be true, but its an official account of my great grandmother's own words. Also, her brother Charles supposedly ended up tried for murder in Austria in 1925.
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So close. I know I, a daughter, had to send grandparents and my mother's death certificate in order to get her birth information, which I got thru the e-mail. I would like to see the actual church record even though I know my immediate family information. There is no direct descendant that could send a request for you? I guess church has its own rules. Zlatica
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Trust me that I have heard a variety of a family stories and they were just that. So Andrew GERRICH might have been arriving as Andras GERIC^ GERICS/GERICZ but from where that is a million dollar question. You documented, wrote out what each census says about your ancestor and it lines up? How I wish that our ancestor kept the parents names in the native spelling. So Charles was he Karoly/Karol or Vasily/Vasil at home? In 1925 we already had the "new" countries Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Poland, Romania etc.
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Well, therein lies my problem - Im not sure Julia's parents, Andrew and Anna, ever CAME to the U.S. at all. In fact, Im guessing they never did, though Julia was supposedly quite close to her parents and maybe at some point she went home to "Austria" for a visit? In the 20's, 30's and early 40's, she referred to her home country as "Austria" in every medical record, social service record, and narrative I can find - including the death certificate for both she and Peter. I've seen it listed as Hungary in census only, and among family we always referred to their birthplace as "Czechoslovakia". The challenge is to find a place that could at each point in time been accurately called whatever they called it at the time. For instance, a place that was at one point considered Austria, at one time Czechoslovakia, and at one time been considered within the Hungary territory. Is there such a place? Seems possible with all the boundary shifts and changes in politics, though even having completed a basic history/geography course related to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, Im the first to admit my geographical understanding of the region is lacking. Or perhaps when the family gave Hungary as their birthplace, they simply meant Austria-Hungary. As far as Julia's siblings (Charles, Veronika, Mary and Mihaly/Mike - plus the unnamed elder sister), I dont think they ever came to America either. No one in the family knew they existed, and in fact the only evidence I have of their existence is a brief Family History given to a social worker who checked in on the family during the years leading up to the Depression - and even this is only a secondhand account of what Julia reported. Supposedly, in 1924/1925, Julia was very upset after recieving a letter from her mother stating that her brother Charles had been mixed up in a highway robbery and murder in Austria, though of course the mother insisted her son was the INNOCENT accomplice of two guilty men. Again, my only knowledge of this comes from a file that was kept by the Humane Society from when they provided aid to needy families before and during the Depression. This same file lists Peter (my great grandfather) as having been born around 1879, which is not accurate, so im taking everything with a grain of salt, so to speak. Being a very skeptical person who needs "proof" of everything before I will accept it as fact, any records Im using (census and otherwise) have been meticulously compared and validated, and yet inconsistencies persist. I wish this was as smooth-going as my Italian side of the family was - hahaha - I had documents for EVERYTHING with them, and was able to trace everything back several generations without question! Although, I suppose this wouldnt be so intriguing and fun if not for the mystery.
Hoping to hear back from the Byzantine church tomorrow, and waiting on Julia's SS-5 application to come in the mail and a reply from the USCIS regarding Alien Registration for both Peter & Julia - perhaps these will yield some clues.
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Lets hope that the forms that you send for will yield some information for you. I don't suppose the letter survived in someones hands? All you need is a location, trust me once you have it the research will take off. Of course, it depends if the location is in Slovakia as the church records are in LDS. If the location is in Ukraine -Ruthenia region than you might need to hire a research. Lets be positive. My grandparents put down Austria on their state marriage application and they should have Hungary as Hungary ruled present Slovak Republic.
Since they mentioned Czechoslovakia than most likely present Slovak Republic or Ukraine as in Ruthenia.
What sort of a neighborhood - surnames - was the area that your ancestors lived on? Birds of a feather fly together, common language and common tradition is what put your ancestors together. How unfortunate, you know Julia [Juliska] siblings name but not a hint of a region - Zemplen, Ugocsa, Bereg, Saros, Szepes.
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Re: KOPCSIK, KOPCIK to Conn.
Joanna
following up on the information that Chris [taltos] posted to you on Slovakia's board. You might want to take a look at the KOPCSIK, KOPCZIK, KOPCIKs that arrived thru NY Ellis Island. I only looked at the ones that arrived from a location Pusztamezo and Jestreb and some were going to Connecticut.
Kopcik, Anna Jestreb, Csl. 25 1899 1924 Kopcik, Christine Jastreb, Cz. Slov. 23 1898 1921 Kopcik, Handa Jastreb, Hungary 17 1895 1912 Kopcik, Jstvan Jastreb, Hungary 18 1894 1912 Kopcik, Michal Jestub, Cz. Slov. 25 1897 1922 Kopcik, Susa Jastreb, Hungary 18 1894 1912 Kopcsik, Anna Tesztreb, Hungary 21 1888 1909 Kopcsik, Anna Tesztrel, Hungary 0 1907 1907 Kopcsik, Anna T. Jesztreb 18 1886 1904 Kopcsik, Anna Jestreb 22 1882 1904 Kopcsik, Auzanna Tesztrel, Hungary 26 1881 1907 Kopcsik, Demeter Jesztreb, Hungary 2 1905 1907 Kopcsik, Peter 29 1877 1906 Kopcsik, Peter Lasztreb 17 1883 1900 Kopcsik, Suszter Jesztreb 30 1874 1904 Kopcsik, Zusanna Jesztreb, Hungary 38 1869 1907
Kopcsik, Jozsef Pusktaniczo 44 1858 1902 Kopcsik, Janos Pusztamezo 24 1878 1902 Kopcsik, Janos Pusztamezo, Hungary 25 1882 190 Kopcsik, Gyorgy Puszta Mezo 18 1881 1899 Kopcsik, Anna Pu...zkucezo, Hungary 20 1889 1909 Kopcsik, Ambras Pusatamezo, Hungary 18 1891 1909
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