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Are you a Kupcsik? Interesting lead that might just be a case-cracker!

Re: KOPCSIK, KOPCIK to Conn.

Posted: 19 Mar 2013 6:05PM GMT
Classification: Query
Thanks! I have looked through most of these before, but perhaps its time to assume nothing and take a closer look at each! Again, any lead - no matter how much of a longshot - is better than no lead at all while i await those other records in the mail.

Interestingly, though im unsure what to do with this, I did read in the family history write-up in the eldest son's medical file that Julia stated that she knew almost nothing about her husband's (Peter) family except he was the only child of his mother's first marriage, and after his father's death, she remarried and had 2 more sons (Peter's half brothers) named Jan/John and Gyorgy/George. As i mentioned, im not even sure if Kopjec/Kopcsak/Kopcek was Peter's father's surname or the surname of his mother's 2nd husband. There is a John and a George Kopcsak that lived together in Bridgeport, CT around 1910-1920's..I surmised that this could be his half brothers if he had taken his mother's second husband's name. Does anyone know if such a practice was common, or even heard of, at the time?

Re: KOPCSIK, KOPCIK to Conn.

Posted: 19 Mar 2013 6:27PM GMT
Classification: Query
You're welcome. I presumed that you have looked but sometimes we can be looking at something and not register what we see. All I know is that our ancestors went to a place where someone from the family or the village was already settled in. Do take a look at the church records that Chris located.

http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.ceeurope.slovakia.gene...

Try not to have the family stories influence you while you are looking thru the manifests. Some things were done differently in the old days and hard to answer your question.

Re: How to . . .

Posted: 19 Mar 2013 6:30PM GMT
Classification: Query
Yes, i know - i was quite disappointed when I read the file and saw that despite all the names and other potentially useful information given, there was no town/village name, without which everything else is essentially useless!

As for their nieghborhood, I was hoping to gain a clue there as well - but found that it was a vibrant mix of nationalities - Polish, Irish, even some Italians...(in fact, my other great grandparents, who were from San Mauro Forte, Bissilicata, Italy, lived just several blocks away!)
Everywhere I turn, there's a terrible lack of leads! i would LOVE to find a letter...unfortunately, no one in my family seems to have anything besides a few old photos...not even a photo of my great grandfather Peter exists..his own grandchildren have never seen one!

One more thing - this is beyond my experience: in the case of two or even three very different birthdates on records that are all proven to belong to the same person, what level of veracity is given to each? Which record is given the most weight? For instance, Peter's draft cards from WWI and WWII, respectively, are May 15, 1887 and May 20, 1887, but then his obituary says December 6, 1892, death certificate says December 14, 1893, and gravestone says 1892. The social services file says he was born "approx. 1879", and of course the censuses all differ by a couple years (which is to be expected, i know). All records are 100% without a doubt my great grandfather's - backed up by exact address, wife and children's name, place of employment, etc. This is quite confusing when providing a birthdate for record searches to other agencies as well as myself. What is the guideline in a situation like this?

Re: How to . . .

Posted: 19 Mar 2013 7:13PM GMT
Classification: Query
Joanna

So many records and neither draft registration form give you a place of birth. I have seen draft forms with a place of birth and not just a country. Maybe it was a personal choice and not a requirement.

Do keep in mind that the birtdays were not celebrated like they are now or needed to be precise like now.
A year up and down no biggie. I would stay with the birthdate that is on the record the closes to his arrival date to America.
So the family story about the "murder" and a letter got hand me downed but no one kept the letter for the stamp. All you can do is wait on the documents.

Re: How to . . .

Posted: 19 Mar 2013 7:28PM GMT
Classification: Query
It was actually not a family story about the murder, but a case file from the Family Welfare Department that noted the following: "From the prior case record leanred that on 12/4/24 when the worker visited the K House she learned that Mrs. K's brother, Charles, had been mixed up in a highway robbery and murder in Austria. Her mother claimed that he was not guilty but arrested because he accompanied the other two men, who were guilty." My assumption was that Julia ("Mrs. K") could only have learned about this via mail from her mother. Certainly a family recieving aid from the town could not make phone calls to Austria in those days, right? Considering this was written by a state agency, some weight should be given to the story, right?
(What an awful story - by the way. The brother would've been Charles Geryk/Gerricha/etc. However, while there are Austrian newspaper articles archived from earlier years and later years, none from this period that might carry news of such a murder.

Re: How to . . .

Posted: 19 Mar 2013 7:51PM GMT
Classification: Query
OK. Your family so of course, you would know it.
I'm not disputing the story its just that I don't see the "murder" happening in Czechoslovakia [it was that already as A-H dissolved after 1918] benefitting the US family at all. Why mention it to a state agency? Since we do not know where this murder happen, we can not search in Czechoslovakia's archive or the village archive. This highway robbery and murder might come to light after the US records establish your ancestor's place of birth.

Re: How to . . .

Posted: 19 Mar 2013 8:06PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 19 Mar 2013 8:07PM GMT
I hope you didnt misread the tone of my message. Think of it as though the family is essentially as unknown to me as to you or anyone else. Quite literally, NONE of us surviving know anything about the family - which adds to the mystery, since most families know something about their own grandparents and great grandparents. We only know what I can discover through research. No one in my family had ever heard of Julia's siblings, let alone this "murder", so I wasnt arguing the point - i was genuinely asking your advice on whether or not you'd give it any weight, as a researcher with more experience than I. I too wondered why this would be mentioned at all to a social worker, but the report has alot in it that is personal and not at all beneficial to the family. It might help if you took a look at it's contents, if you have the time. Although i'd prefer to email it to you rather than post it to a public forum. It is the only source i have of clues to any of Julia's family. Can i email you?
By the way - its only 3 pages...not a huge file

Re: How to . . .

Posted: 19 Mar 2013 8:18PM GMT
Classification: Query
Yes, you can send it to me.
I still don't know why someone would volunteer "that" information unless it had some benefit but what, I can not think of one.

Re: KOPCSIK, KOPCIK to Conn.

Posted: 19 Mar 2013 8:26PM GMT
Classification: Query
I took another look at the other Kopcsak family - indeed, there is a Peter, John and George all living in Bridgeport, CT at the same addresses in city directories from as early as 1898. The similarity is striking, but they cannot be the same people due to age, timeline contradictions. I suppose these were just popular first names?

Re: KOPCSIK, KOPCIK to Conn.

Posted: 19 Mar 2013 9:15PM GMT
Classification: Query
Yes, popular names but still do not discard them.
Family went to family. Maybe a cousin to your ancestor if not your direct ancestor.

Kopcsik, Peter Lasztreb 17 1883 1900
Kopcsak, Andras Lesztreb 17 1883 1900
2 different surnames.
Kopčík and Kopčák in Slovakia.
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