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William Iiams (1640 -1703)/Robert I'Ans connection

Re: William Iiams (1640 -1703)/Robert I'Ans connection

Posted: 19 Oct 2012 6:28PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: I'ans, J'ans, Yans, L'ans, Delman, Janns, Janes, James
Regarding Robert I'ans (aka J'ans, Janes, James, L'ans, Yans, Delman)"Master of the Ordnance in Ireland and one of Her Majesty's Privy Council for the Kingdom of Ireland."

see notes on Robert and his descendants (in Ireland, Devon and Cornwall) here

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&d...

Re: William Iiams (1640 -1703)/Robert I'Ans connection

Posted: 19 Oct 2012 10:26PM GMT
Classification: Query
Robert I'ans who was Master of Ordnance under Queen Elizabeth was actually Robert J'ans or Janes (see Burke's peerage) "Janes, or Janns (James Janes, Mayor of Dublin, 1593, son of Robert Janes, or Janns, Master of the Ordnance in Ireland, 1559. Visit. city of Dublin, 1607). Gu. on a bend ar. three Cornish choughs sa. beaked and legged of the first." No "Sir" in any of the documents available online.

His name was sometimes given as Yans in the early days, but I have not seen it as I'ans in the early records (although he did answer to Delman or Dellman). He was not Welsh. According to authors of The Origins of Sectarianism in Early Modern Ireland he was born in Kent, though he made his mark in Ireland and never returned to England.

The only sons on record for him are Thomas and James. The earliest records I have seen for him date to circa 1535 when he was receiver of customs for Drogheda. He was bailiff and sheriff of Dublin circa 1547, which seems to be the about last time he is on record. His son James was mayor of Dublin in 1593 and died in 1620 (according to the memoirs the family of his 3rd wife, Mary Carus, who survived him).

In spite of the occasional use of "Yans" for Robert's surname, it seems unlikely he has any connection with the Iiams family.



Re: William Iiams (1640 -1703)/Robert I'Ans connection

Posted: 20 Oct 2012 6:37AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi,

There has already been discussion about this on another thread - there are actually two Roberts with similar names, with one being the father of William Iiams -

Lisa

Re: William Iiams (1640 -1703)/Robert I'Ans connection

Posted: 20 Oct 2012 2:24PM GMT
Classification: Query
Just wanted to clarify that it wasn't the one who was master of ordnance and that that person was not a Sir Robert.

Re: William Iiams (1640 -1703)/Robert I'Ans connection

Posted: 20 Oct 2012 6:08PM GMT
Classification: Query
Just to summarize, not only is Robert J'ans (not I'ans) Master of Ordnance (Ireland) not Sir, and not Welsh, he died in the reign of Edward VI (before 1553) making this conjectured connection impossible.

You can find his descendants in Ireland under the name "Janns" while in England they continued to use the name "J'ans" frequently mistranscribed.

Re: William Iiams (1640 -1703)/Robert I'Ans connection

Posted: 24 Oct 2012 1:35AM GMT
Classification: Query
As you say, his descendants in England, were J'ans,"frequent
-ly mis-transcribed", which was the case back then as the J and the I were actually, then, INTER CHANGEABLE. So the J'ans was often written I'ans. And many of those English J'ans/I'ans DID end up in CORNWALL, AND DEVON. And William Eyoms/I'ans of Maryland,USA, never did clarify if he was a son, grandson or great-grandson, but DID say he was of Robert I'ANS (which by SOUND alone MATCHES Eyoms-which the clerk simply wrote as he heard it).

AS PROOF THE I'ANS SPELLING/NAME DID EXIST, AND WAS OF DEVON AND CORNWALL.....


The baptism of Charlotte Eliza Rawleigh I’ans was recorded in the register for the parish of Whitstone, Cornwall, on 6 December 1782. Very few of Charlotte’s papers survive, but Lois Ijams Hartman, a distant American relative, has recorded some information about the I’ans family in a privately published booklet, "Remembered in This Land".

Charlotte was one of seven children of Colonel Wrey I’ans and Frances Rawleigh. The dates of birth of her brothers, John, Edward, and Thomas, are unknown, but her older twin sisters, Florence and Frances, were born in 1776 and her younger sister Catherine in 1785.

Charlotte’s ancestors, like Hawker’s, originally came from Devon and her great-grandfather, Thomas I’Ans, worked at one time as a ‘customs collector’ in Bideford.

Thomas I’ans probably purchased Old Whitstone House in the early eighteenth century.

Person: I'ans, John Rawleigh (1793 - 1793
John Rawleigh I'ans, rector of Bicton, Devon, presented by his father Colonel I'ans, who had purchased the advowson of Lord Rolle

CONSOLIDATED INDEX TO DEVON WILLS - List of Probate Courts and their assigned codes:
Surname First Name(s) Place County/Country Occupation/
Status Year Type Form Prob. Court Source Reference Note

I'ans Edward City of London LND 1772 W ab PCC MUR1 Vol. 19 137 Taverner; formerly of Whitstone, Cornwall; had lands in Bideford
I'ans Richard Dix DEV 1772 A co PCC ACA Sep
I'ans Thomas DEV 1794 A co PCC ACA May
I'ans Thomas Instow DEV gentleman 1753 W co DRO-W 1577 M/W1 1753-59

YOUR OWN INFO, STATES (PARAPHRASING):

Janes, or Janns (James Janes, Mayor of Dublin, 1593, son of Robert Janes, or Janns, Master of the Ordnance in Ireland, 1559. Visit. city of Dublin, 1607)

Robert J'ans also went by the name Robert Delman or Dellman alias Yans and Burke identifies Robert Yans with Robert J'ans

AND NOTE THAT DURING THIS ERA----SPELLING WAS NOT FIXED----I's and J's were USED INTERCHANGEABLY!

Name: Robert J'ANS
Sex: M
Birth: BEF 1515 in Kent, England
ALIA: Robert Delman
Occupation: Master of Ordnance (Ireland) to Queen Elizabeth
Death: BEF 1553 in Tristernagh
ALIA: Robert Yans
Occupation: Privy Councillor for Ireland under Elizabeth I
Occupation: Bailiff and Sheriff of Dublin 1547
Occupation: gunner 1536 Tower of London
Occupation: collector of customs ABT 1534 Dublin, Irela


*****NOTE: Robert Jans, two worshipful gentlemen.....according to "Notable British Families" he was ****Sir Robert I'ans******

Our "William Eyoms/Ians" was to have been born abt. 1640 in Stratton.He died 29 Jul 1703 in Anne Arundel Co.,Maryland (USA).

RESEARCH HAS SHOWN:

William was born 1652 in Stratton, Cornwall, England, and immigrated ca 1665 to Anne Arundel Co., Maryland. A leading proponent of this theory is Lois Hartman, who spent considerable time in England, and
*****found a fragmented pedigree of the family whose name was spelled I'Ans****. Most of these individuals lived in Cornwall and North Devon.

The earliest record was that of David Ion date from 1370. The family came to prominence when a coat of arms was presented to Robert I'Ans of Whitstone by Elizabeth, her Master of Ordnance and Her Majesty's Privy Council in Ireland, whose family lineage dated to 1640. The original William is thought to be a grand or great-grandson of this Robert I'Ans

IGI INDEX SHOWS:

William I'ANS....THOUGH THIS is NOT OUR WILLIAM---it shows that the I'ANS Name did EXIST in this area in those earlier times (1600s-1700s)
> Sex: M
> Event(s):
> Christening: 15 Jun 1757
> Ilfracombe, Devon, England
> Parents:
> Father: Thomas I'ANS
> Mother: Margt

So i am NOT CONTRADICTING YOUR info On Robert J'ans/I'ans, i am simply saying that no one has the ENTIRE STORY--but that he still very well can be the ancestor of our William Eyoms.


Re: William Iiams (1640 -1703)/Robert I'Ans connection

Posted: 24 Oct 2012 3:33PM GMT
Classification: Query
If your William was born in 1652 in Cornwall, he could not have been of this particular line. Thomas’ father, Christopher, did not marry until 1670 in Lancashire. And he had arrived there from his birthplace in Tradath, Ireland by way of his employment as a customs inspector.

Thomas was the first J’ans to move to Devon, to be customs inspector at Bideford in 1715. And all the later J’ans that appear in Devonshire after this point are his descendants. I have searched all the available data and not found any others. All this can be discovered from careful combing through the family wills and other documents in the National Archives. Because a William was born in Ilfracombe in 1757 does not mean the family was there in the 1600s. As I mention, Thomas came to Bidiford in 1715. All of this is on record.

Also, if you are looking for a Sir Robert J’ans, then, again, this is not the line. I do not have a copy of Notable British Families, but if they are speaking of this particular Robert J’ans, then they are clearly mistaken. There are dozens of references to Robert in the Irish archives and not one of them mentions that he was a knight. Nor were any of his descendants there. They were, however, mayors, aldermen, and sheriffs of Dublin, and well-connected Catholic merchants. Because they were Catholics they had property confiscated and lost their rights to the freedom of the city, etc. that they had enjoyed before.

The “research” you quote is very suspect. First of all Robert J’ans died before Elizabeth came to the throne. Second, as Whitstone was purchased from the Badcocks by Thomas J’ans, it could not have been much earlier than 1690. So there is no connection whatsoever to Robert who died before 1553, as his widow was mentioned in the reign of Edward VI. So what can it mean to say his “family lineage dated to 1640” when he died before 1553? It makes no sense.

Your best bet is to look at the name Janes in Cornwall. It has been a name in the area for many generations and they seem share the same coat of arms. You might find something there.
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