Groat - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-03-19 16:15:46Z

Michael and William may have been slaves servants of William Davis, which is why they are in both Saltfleet and Nelson townships when the Davises are, Davis' son in law Thomas Ghent's lot in Nelson bordered Michael's lot.What I would really like to find is Michael's wife.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

onyare — 2013-03-15 00:03:44Z

Hello someone sent me this. I thought you guys would be interested in reading it.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=T4LxpSmpRJgC&pg=PA4&...

Page 33 - 35 talks about the Adam Crysler and John Chrysler/Crysler family that were living in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada area

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-26 04:53:49Z

Henry, William and 'Pete' all lived within lots of Michael Groats father's place in Nelson Townships at different times from 1818-42,
all these Privates: Ralph Morden, Jacob Kerns , Nicholas Kerns , Robert Sovereen , David Morden, James Mordan, Thomas Mordan, Jacob Vanorman , Stephen Lucas, Asahel Davis, Augustus Bates, William “guant” /Ghent, William Groat, Henry Groat, Ebenezer Guire, Nichols Kerns Jr., Jacob Kerns, Elias Rambo, John Saverrean/Sovereign , Aug 29 to Sept 9 1813, all lived within a few lots and concessions of one another and of Michael Groat in Nelson township between the Guelph line and the Jones Baseline south of what is now the Queen Elizabeth way. Michael of Nelson was the probable son of Michael Groat Sr. ie. the original Six Nations/Mississauga Groat family that turned into the Mike family on the reserve until Catherine Mike's death in 1889 would have begun with 1794 Mike Sr. .
Michael, father of William of Guelph was the probable husband of Margaret Groat, a Tuscarora from North Carolina according to elder George Beaver's Haudenosaunee Social Dancing: Why We Dance website page information about his grandmother's Tuscarora grandmother Margaret Groat was from North Carolina after the revolutionary war, evidence Beaver notes as being from to 1901 Kansas land petition filed by his grandmother Caroline Beaver,daughter of Joseph Beaver and Lavinia Groat, daughter of Abram Groat and Sarah Ann Williams. Beavers' evidence is that Margaret Groat was Abram Groats mother, her husband is unknown to him or to the Haudenosaunee Project. see
"ID: I42032
Name: Caroline BEAVER
Sex: F
Change Date: 20 Nov 2006
Note:
"In her Kansas Land Claim Caroline Beaver lists Margaret Groat of North Carolina as the mother of Abram Groat. She also lists Isaac Whitby as the half-brother of the children of her grandparents.
She further mentions her great grandmother Molly Turner who lived in North Carolina, migrated to New York and then Canada where she died. Molly Turner married a man named Smith."
William of Guelph's mother is unknown,he had a sister named Margaret, and while two unknowns and a coincidence don't necessarily make a known, it's a small crop of Groats we're harvesting from...
There is confusion about Abram Groats parents, with JTimlek and the Haudenosaunee Project listing them as William Groat and Amelia Emily Smith, which may or may not be George Beaver's Smith family, however, Caroline Beaver's land claim statement that her grandmother was Margaret Groat, rules out Sarah Ann Williams, and sidelines the claim that William was necessarily Abram's father, in fact the Haudenosaunee Project inserts Margaret Groat as a floating mother with an unknown father of Abram's as well as William and Sarah Ann, so the ball is still in the air.
It matters to the degree that it is from Abram's line that the Groat Mike Crysler clan emerged, which is it is my contention that the clan probably began with the original Michael. The only Mike Sr. old enough to served the crown during the revolutionary war and thus quality to be Michael Grote on the Free Negro Petition of 1794.
Ebenezer Guire, also on that petition, lives a lot away from Michael Groat in the Nelson township assessment of 1818, Mike Sr.'s land (William of Guelph was born in Saltfleet in 1820). Henry Guyre is one of two executors of the will of Michael of Nelson in 1846.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-21 17:24:31Z

Arlene Noble states that Solomon Nash, (Sagwarethra) the hereditary Tuscarora chief appointed in 1879 married Jemima Groat, daughter of Michael of Nelson, sister of William,in 1865. However, the Haudenosaunee Project lists Nash's wife as Ravina Groat, and they cannot be the same woman since Ravina was born in 1852, and Jemima is a beneficiary in her father Michael's 1846 census.
Margaret Groat, daughter of Michael, married Richard Lewis, (not Lewis Richard of Sunnidale, as some have thought). She is the Mrs Lewis removed from the reserve in 1889 by the band council.
She is on the reserve in 1852 with Chief Lewis, 25 years old, making her born in 1827. In the 1852 census Richard is a 30 year old farmer and Margaret is 25 yars old, they are both Wesleyan Methodists.

Re: William Groat

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-21 16:48:02Z

WILLIAM Groat AND Elizabeth Adams had a son James Groat who is buried in the Woodlawn cemetery Guelph, who only lived for 7 weeks.

Re: William Groat

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-21 16:47:51Z

WILLIAM Groat AND Elizabeth Adams had a son James Groat who is buried in the Woodlawn cemetery Guelph, who only lived for 7 weeks.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-19 22:12:05Z

What I can't find is the place in Wales that William Davis'father Thomas was from, and if he was related to existing Davis families in Baltimore co Maryland, Pencader Delaware, Pennsylvannia Welsh Tract, and Yorktown Virginia, and Hillsborough North Carolina AND and if so, which families.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-19 22:04:26Z

the connection may be the coincidence of white Groat names from Scoharie NY enemies of the loyalist Cryslers there, some of which Cryslers settled in Lincoln County in the Niagara frontier before the arrival of the North Carolina Davis-Gants Groat connection in the Niagara Frontier in 1893. Michael Groat lived among the same families in the wellington square block of what is now Burlington, Ontario from 1806 on. His will of 1846 has Wm. Davis as a witness. Michael Groat leaves his farm to his grandson, James Chrysler. But I am not certain which daughter of "Jemime Margarett and Hannah" was the mother of James.

Re: Stillman P. GROAT - the murderer???

jtimleck — 2013-01-17 21:38:27Z

Hi Don,

I'm Mary P.'s cousin ... one of the brother's to Stillman's father's line... Just curious, any hidden secrets that came about while reno-ing the old Stillman Groat house?

Cheers,
Andrew
Baltimore

Re: Stillman P. GROAT - the murderer???

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-17 19:25:03Z

these people are all from Middlesex county Ontario

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

jtimleck — 2013-01-11 18:04:46Z

You definitely have my attention here Jerry with your last couple of posts. BTW, I'm in Baltimore now so maybe if there is some digging here I could do just let me know.

Re: Groat

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-10 20:05:45Z

william Groat died in Wellington County, 1900 lived in Nelson Township (now Burlington Ont) and was born in Saltfleet.
Who is this Lewis that his father worked for ?

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-10 06:32:34Z

just found this:
In 1974 Rutgers University Press published The Ramapo Mountain People by David Steven Cohen.
(The book was a revised version of Cohen‟s doctoral dissertation in American Civilization at the University of Pennsylvania. The people he studied then known as “the Jackson Whites” were descended according to legend from Hessian deserters, escaped slaves, Tuscarora Indians migrating from North Carolina to New York, and a group of Revolutionary War prostitutes known as “Jackson‟s Whites” and “Jackson‟s Blacks” after the man who allegedly
solicited the bi-racial group of women.
The Mountain People themselves told only the parts of the legend about the Hessian deserters and the Tuscarora Indians, emphasizing the parts of the legend that were acceptable to the group. However, Cohen showed that the Tuscarora Indians migrated through eastern Pennsylvania on the trek to join their fellow Iroquois-speaking tribes, becoming the sixth nation of the Iroquois Confederacy.
Also, he argued that the surnames Van Dunk, De Groat, and De Freese were Dutch names, not German as would have been the case with Hessian soldiers.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-09 19:44:46Z

I am writing a book called Blood in the Mortar, centred around a cornerstone setting ceremony that took place at the Guelph British Methodist Episcopal Church in 1880, I have been establishing the links of the Six Nations Reserve, Quakers Methodists, and in the case of Tuscarora Groats New York Baptists I have the key to my whole argument about the receiving end of the Underground Railroad. Which is all to say I may be able to help you with your Durham issue, a thank you for the William Michael family trees.
It's the Battle of Yorkton 1781 at the Phillips plantation

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-09 15:24:55Z

I think the Groat native black white conundrum is all caught up in a man named Solomon Davis who settled in Baltimore (which is where William Davis the United Empire Loyalist (who Michael Groat is linked to) was born.
http://genforum.genealogy.com/md/dorchester/messages/566.htm...

There is a woman named Hazel Davis Clark from Stigler Oklahoma
who notes that "The Pennsylvania Davis families were into the Eastern Land" (ie Western Pennsylvania later became Ohio) "& in the Carolinas,(and) Georgia marrying into the Cherokee tribe and into other tribes of the 5-civilized tribes, who for the most part, were relocated to Oklahoma territory & other areas. "
Some of Solomon's 18 living children (he had 27)left Maryland for the Welsh tract in Pennsylvania, and it is there that love and lust took its course.
Most tellingly, in the 1785 census of the Grand River Reserve in Upper Canada, there were 129 Tuscarora.. 400 individuals combined from the Delaware, Nanticoke, Tutelo, Creek and Cherokee.
There is also this
On the website for the Grand River Branch of the United Empire Loyalists, there is an account, headlined "Remembering African-American Canadian Settlement In Brantford" from the files of Angela E.M. May 1999, Vol.11 No.1, Pages 6-9 that states in a longer note on black refugees, "According to local oral history, Tuscarora Baptist Natives guided the refugees up the Grand River from Buffalo and Niagara Falls. "
The Baptists had only been in the Tuscarora reserve since 1805, however,nonetheless, the link to the Welsh Davis' and their Baptist church is interesting.
Nonetheless the church state of Upper Canada was Church of England, with a dissenting church allowed in the Church of Scotland, Presbyterian, and when Wm Davis set up his plantation on Mount Albion in Saltfleet township, he built the Auld Scots Kirk, ostensibly to attract Scots, however, being a more democratic, less hierarchical church than the Anglican. Michael Groat was Church of Scot in the 1842 census of Nelson township.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-09 14:50:46Z

Probably not a link, no.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

jtimleck — 2013-01-08 15:24:47Z

You've got my attention... :D. I'm in the midst of some other research (interestingly it's also slave history and also NC (my partner's family out of Durham that settled in Baltimore)but when I come up for air will see what energies I can throw into this. Would be nice to be able to settle this one out, a marvelous piece of "missing" history. FWIW tracing African American history in the U.S. is horrific - even present day (i.e. the 1940s census even) suck - the families are so fractured by servitude (Occupation, for example, often reads "Servant, Private Family" ... what a huge step up from slave huh...), adoption (because families were split and living where they worked children of relatives families are scattered in with them as "lodgers" often) and early death (and hence re-marrying, but with few, if any records). It's a challenge. But I digress. One mystery at a time. Thanks for your hard work on this!

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-08 15:11:23Z

The curious thing is, the Phillipse Groots in your document, are paralleled in Arlene Noble's tack on the Canadian slave family, since the wife of William Davis,Hannah was a Phillips/Phillipse whose parents lived in Yorkton Virginia, and who stayed in America (as did the Davis-Ghants) for nine years after the war, leaving only after the family was burnt out by patriots. Which could suggest that the enslaved Groats began as Phillipse "property".
The second thing, is that the Michael-William Groat line were all blacks, or at least "mulattos" not whites, and they were automatically free as soon as they entered Canada, because of the anti-slavery act of 1793, whereas America became a slave prison the same year after Washington passed the first Fugitive slave Act. If the Phillips Phillipse family link can be made, there's the answer.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

jtimleck — 2013-01-08 14:29:39Z

Hi Jerry,

Here he is in the context of his family tree:

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&d...

The down side to making this connection is that this family becomes pretty staunchly pro-American as I see it - and none settle in NC that would support the connection to the Brantford/Oneida clan that I can see.

Cheers
Andrew

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-08 07:28:16Z

did any of them end in wellington county or Nelson township?

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-08 07:23:04Z

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~nyschoha/simms4.html
what do you make of this native Groat story.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-08 07:08:29Z

There is a Henry Groat living one property away from Michael Groat on the 1818-1819 nelson township assessment roles, (living on the just blazed trail of the Guelph Line his being Caleb's father, and Michael's brother ties in all the Halton-wellington Groats, I think, I hope. Or not. There was a Pete Groat living on the Guelph line near Michael in the 1830 census, if that helps or hinders. What say ye?

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-08 07:02:50Z

Maybe you can figure out the Queen's Bush Simon Groat this books is talking about, I think it might be Michael's brother Peter, on the assumption that parents liked to name their children Simon Peter in those days, http://books.google.ca/books?id=VShv-eGkLnEC&pg=PA103&am...

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-08 06:26:03Z

There are also no Groats in Saltfleet 1816-1819.
Henry Groat is not in the Nelson township assessment/census material 1830, but there are Vanorman's,there is a Pete Groat living near David Gant, Nicholas Kern and Asahel Davis 2 males over 16, 4 males under 2 females over 2 females under, Michael Groat has 90 acres in forest and 50 acres in pasture, there is 1 male over 16 , I male under, I female under.
The property you defined as the 2nd concession is the Guelph Line and it was surveyed into a blazed trail in 1819 from old Port Nelson beyond rural Rockwood in Eramosa township a few miles east of Guelph.
In the 1842 Nelson census, 47 year old Michael Groat is a Church of Scotland ie. Presbyterian farmer born in Canada (see William Davis UEL Mount Albion, Saltfleet and the Auld Scots Kirk) living on land owned by Sarah Kerns, there two females under 5, one married 60 plus male, one male 14-45, and someone 14-18.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-07 05:54:25Z

I just discovered this link to the Guelph Groats
http://familyhistory-myheartisinthehighlands.blogspot.ca/

thought I would drive and while there look for my Great Grandmother Hannah Groat Lillie's sisters, Abigail Groat Fennell (Thomas), Winnifred Groat Whitney (William), Henrietta Groat Riley (Thomas), who had moved directly from Ontario to Denver, and Louisa Groat Knowlton (George) who it appears, had moved to California, before she moved to Colorado. From the census she was the first to immigrate in 1884, the rest in the early 1900's. I had found their names in their mother, Elizabeth Adams Groat's, will. There were ten girls and many, many years later I found a son James, on the records of the Norfolk Church in Guelph. I don't know where he went, but probably he died early, as he wasn't listed in his mother's will. Ten girls are very hard to track, they marry and leave not a trace, and who would have thought that they moved all the way to Colorado, four of them, none the less. One Mary Jane Groat Clos lived and died in Bellingham, Washington.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-06 03:34:11Z

and for your Captain Morden file, the captain's sister Elizabeth married Johannes Crysler.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-06 03:29:15Z

The Guelph Museum's black history web page has an article on William Groat, it names Michael as his father. William Groat moved to Guelph from Nelson township in 1842,which is where he married his wife, Elizabeth Adams and then to Marden four miles north of the town to Marden in Guelph township, which is how he ends up dying in the Wellington House of Industry in 1900.
Michael's brother, your Tuscarora township William, in fact your whole line of work on Michael interests me because I am writing a book on a Guelph church with links to the underground railroad, and I have already established the Quaker, Six Nations, African Methodist side of that equation on the Canadian and American sides, what fascinates me about Groat is that the Tuscarora have this extra special aura in this topic because of their enslavement period in North Carolina (from when the Davis-Ghents camed) which ended up with the Tuscarora taking refugee in the Great Dismal Swamp where escaped black slaves lived; the tribe that eventually came out of the swamp and moved north to be adopted by the Oneida was this mixed race remnant, a portion of which left the Tuscarora reserve and crossed the border to the six nations of the grand river reserve through a Baptist missionary in NY state.
To me the mother of Michael and William is key to knowing who they were, just as Michael's wife is key to knowing who William is. And thus, because of the Davis-Ghent North Carolina connection (they housed General Cornwallis on their plantations, which got burned by patriots; they and their slaves left for Upper in 1794, too late for Loyalist land Grants (else they would have joined the Davis family and other North Carolina families in Long Point on the north shore of Lake Erie).
Lt. Governor Simcoe's anti-slavery act had just come into effect, making any imported slaves free men.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-06 03:06:32Z

in the 1818-1819 Nelson township assessments John Brant, son of Joseph, is the name above William Groat's, above Brant is a man named Wm Bates, and then Wm Case, the Methodist missionary, below Groat is Ebenezer guire, then Henry then a few more names down the page is Thomas Gant and James Morden, presumably the captain of the unit.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-06 03:00:13Z

We have the assessment rolls in the Guelph library on microfilm.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

jtimleck — 2013-01-05 21:51:32Z

Hi Fred,

You're correct about Henry Groat in Whitby not being "your" Groats - In 1807 this is Henry Groat born c.1741 in/of Dutchess Co. NY. In 1837 this is Henry Groat Jr. (or is possibly Ebenezer Henry/ David Henry etc - a lot of problems with this one but it isn't Henry Sr.). b.c. 1787 and d. aft 1837. The confusion will show in other York Militia records as some of Henry Sr. *other* children also show up (Jesse, and William I believe off the top of my head).

As I've noted before, maybe worth noting to others here, there is an interesting connection between the Brant connected Groats to my NY Groats - Brant commanded in the same area of NY and the NY Groats also connect to the CRYSLER/GREISLER clan - a primary family in "African Amerian"/"Negro"/"Mulatto" that *also* appears with the Oneida/Haldimand area indigenous or slave descendant Groats. But still never been able to make more of a connection (save an interesting piece called "Blue Eyed Indian" on the Crysler side perhaps that hints the connection might be "real").

Finally the Archives Canada recently (last year) posted scans of claims from the War of 1812 - there might be some new info in there (Caleb Groat that appears in Grimsby is my Henry Groat's son btw)

cheers all

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

FredBlair0 — 2013-01-05 20:42:43Z

Jerry,

Thank you for your two replies. Where did you find the 1818-1819 Nelson Twp. Assessments? Do you have the lot and concession numbers? In 1811 Michael owned part of Lots 23 & 24, Con. 2 SDS Nelson Twp. (BC pg. 6). I had no record that he had married or had children.

I had found information for Henry Groat in Whitby Twp. in 1807 and 1837. This must have been another man with the same name. The 2nd York Militia did not recruit from Whitby Twp. but did recruit from Saltfleet and Nelson Twp.

Fred

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

prager_Jerry — 2013-01-05 19:50:26Z

Henry Groat is in nelson township in the 1818-1819 assessment records, a lot away from Michael Groat, James Marden is also there though, as is John Brant. Michael Groat died in 1846 according to the Wellington County Museum in its article on his son William who moved to Guelph from Nelson in 1842.

John Richard Groat

hjadams159 — 2012-12-28 06:27:12Z

I am looking for any information on my grandfather who I believe to be John Richard Groat, born in 1917, and died Nov 6, 1990 and is buried at Fishterton/Rundle Cemetary near his home at Mulhurst Bay, Alberta. His wife was Helen, born 1920, died Dec 29, 1976.

He married my grandmother, Rachel LaForge sometime around 1947, and produced my father. Shortly after the couple separated. He was never a part of my father's life. My Dad never forgave him, and thus little to nothing is known about my grandfather other than his first and last name. My father later changed his name to Manning after his step father.

John was a trucker, and the few records I can find for John Richard say he was a trucker and later a dispatcher. It seems he moved around Alberta a fair bit.

Isabel Frances Groat

kenmerriman1386 — 2012-10-31 12:39:17Z

I am trying to find information about a Groat family that lived in Schenectady NY (Schenectady County) and Clifton Park NY ( Saratoga County). My ex wife was born Shelia Lillian Groat then shortly after she was born she was adopted by Harvey Wickham & Marjorie Starr from the Berne NY, Albany County, area and her name was changed to Sharon Lynn Wickham. Shelia's mother's name was Isabel Frances Groat b. 15 Apr 1916 and d. 6 Feb 1991. She was buried someplace around Clifton Park NY, Saratoga County.

Isabel's mother was Mabel Carson b. 1896, d. 1981. Mabel married Arnold Murray b 1878, d. 1956.

Does anyone have any information on this Groat family. Also does anyone know what the Adoption records laws currently are in New York, since my ex wife's adoptive parents, biological mother & grandparents have passed away, her biological father is unknown and her adoption records were sealed when she was adopted back in 1946. This information has not been confirmed or sourced and was received via third party.

Thanks

Ken Merriman,

km1386@comcast.net

Re: Stillman P. GROAT - the murderer???

dr_curley14 — 2012-10-26 02:18:39Z

Hi Mary!

My wife and I just purchased the house in Broken Bow that Stillman build in 1908. As you may know it is a grand house built like a castle and still is one of the most prominent houses in town. We are in the process of restoring it as close to it's original interior. Fortunately over the last 100 years it hasn't been modernized much but we can not find out much about it's original interior or construction.

Can you help out or give some direction??

Don Cain

Re: Groat family

groatministry — 2012-09-12 14:16:10Z

Could that have been my Aunt Peggie who was married to Uncle Robert (Bob) Groat?

If so, She and my Uncle Bob had the kindest hearts that you could find. The constantly took in teen agers that had family problems until their families found solutions.

Re: Milo Sylvester Groat & Angeline Ellen Harding Descendants

Paltia — 2012-02-26 10:53:52Z

Hello Groat Cousin! I'm excited to hear from you. My name is Barb and I am Milo's G. Granddaughter through his daughter Elsie May Groat.

Please email me at paltia@aol.com

I'm so excited to meet you.

Re: Milo Sylvester Groat & Angeline Ellen Harding Descendants

lshug — 2012-02-25 00:55:52Z

I am Lester's granddaughter. Please reply.

George Groat.

bapkas2010 — 2012-02-13 17:47:42Z

Looking for any info on George Groat b c 1798 Cannisbay
Caithness, He was a Ship's master married Janet Hunter they lived in Pultenny town wick. i have a death for janet but nothing on george. his daughter married in 1855 Wick George was on the marriage cert so he was alive in 1855. i have tried scotlands people with no luck.
i am also lokking for his son EWings Groat b 1832 wick.
He had three daughter's b glasgow he was widowed and moved to Portsea in Hampshire married a Ann scofield in 1860 had a son George james Groat b 1861 cannot find the family after that,
any help will be much appreciated.
barbara.

Re: deeds -posted here

1ltmwb1 — 2012-01-29 21:02:30Z

researching richards and waring (sometimes warring)hanfords
cpt james richards - hannah waring - duaghter of
edmund waring-or eliakim waring and bouton)
ruth richards- nathan waring-

appreciate all the different information that one has researched-
noticed several posts re waring/warring/richards etc.

re family search- information- very limited versus before -

1ltmwb1

Roat

coroats — 2011-10-10 21:13:23Z

Looking for the sir name of ROAT.
Where did it originate.
Have family back to the Mayflower time and can't get out of the country or new names.

Re: Warner Groat of Green Island,NY

jtimleck — 2011-09-13 08:04:21Z

Hi Eunice,

Here they are in the 1850 Census of Watervliet, Albany Co., NY

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.2/M48B-4M9/p_240195920

It appears possible he is connected to Jacob Simonse GROOT, who died in Watervliet bet 1809-1814

cheers, Andrew

Charles E. GROAT, 1867, MO - aft 1930, KS

007Ruth — 2011-07-18 07:13:34Z

Anyone related to Charles? He's listed in the 1900 census as residing in Madison Twp., Greenwood Co., KS, with wife Bessie and 2 year old dau, Myrtle. He lists his birth date as Aug 1867 and born in Missouri. He listed his father as being born in NY and his mother in IN. In the 1910 census (same location) Charles has a wife named Carrie, his dau, Myrtle, and a step-dau named Maud BRYDEN. Charles and Carrie are at the same location in the 1930 census. Any little tidbit of info would be appreciated.

Re: Freedom Groat - update Census is from Dorchester, ON, 1851

jtimleck — 2011-06-29 01:59:40Z

Oh, and the reference year for the census is 1852 as the base - it was taken so late that the 1851 Census was actually done in 1852. And the birth date listed is age at next birthday - so 14 years would fit "perfectly" for the age of John BOLON to be John BORLAND b. in Aug of 1838 then.

Andrew

Re: Freedom Groat - update Census is from Dorchester, ON, 1851

jtimleck — 2011-06-29 01:56:23Z

Wow, thanks for the info - so do you know if there is any evidence placing William Henry and Freedom as siblings? I mean we've hunted high and low for a connection going on 7 years now and then this kinda comes out of the blue (which is great of course!) - but you're correct in all the places and stuff too so don't see why this can't be right.

Re: Freedom Groat - update Census is from Dorchester, ON, 1851

rasquith1928 — 2011-06-28 10:56:21Z

Here is what I have on the Borlands. William Henry Borland's descendants in the US 1880 and 1900 censuses give his birth place as Canada, Vermont, and New Hampshire.

John bolon in the 1851 Candian Census looks like John Borland. His age is 14 at his next birthday and his birthday is 22 Aug. I have John borland as born on 22 Aug 1838. I don't know what day of the year is considered the reference day for the census. Is it Jan 1 or whatever day the census taker wrote down the data or some other date?

I am a descendent of James R. Borland. I didn't research James but got my information from another descendant of James.

Descendants of William Henry Borland

1 William Henry Borland
. +Jane Davidson
.... 2 Andrew David Borland Born: 06 Mar 1827 Died: 08 Jan 1915 Burial: Alden Cemetery, Alden, IA
........ +Roseanna Hutchinson Born: 01 Jan 1830 Married: 01 Oct 1854 Died: 16 Apr 1918 Burial: Blairsburg Cemetery
.... 2 Freedom Borland Born: Abt. 08 Sep 1828
........ +James Groat Born: Abt. 1819
.... 2 William Henry Borland Born: 09 May 1835 Died: 31 Jan 1917 Burial: Riverside Cemetery, Madelia, MN
........ +Elvira Odell Frisbey Born: 22 Jan 1844 Married: 05 Oct 1865 Died: 08 Jun 1927 Burial: Madelia, MN.
.... 2 John T. Borland Born: 22 Aug 1838 Died: 19 Jun 1916 Burial: Exeter Cemetery, Exeter, Neb.
........ +Jane Elizabeth Devalon Born: 05 Jan 1843 Married: 22 Oct 1867 Died: 03 Apr 1919 Burial: Exeter Cemetery
.... 2 James R. Borland Born: 19 Mar 1840 Died: 29 Mar 1915 Burial: State Cemetery, Hot springs, SD
........ +Matilda Jane Wilson Born: 05 Aug 1845 Married: 29 Mar 1864 Died: 26 Dec 1939 Burial: IA

Re: Freedom Groat - update Census is from Dorchester, ON, 1851

jtimleck — 2011-06-27 08:13:17Z

Hi Robert, thanks for this - yes, we're still keeping tabs on it - and some updated info as of June 2011. Also, not specifically noted in this output is that Freedom's name is almost certainly now confirmed as "BORLAND" (not BOLAND, etc.). In Chester's death register he clearly lists her as BORLAND. Also, was Melissa was adopted by Amos T. STEVENS and Melissa Jane BIXBY - in the 1900 Census it notes her as "Adp Dau." (or close to that, difficult to read) and her death register confirms this where she is noted as Melisaa (sic) GROAT STEVENS. As for parents of Freedom, still not clear - her brother is most likely William H. who appears in her probate. John BOLON in the 1851 Census does *not* appear to be her brother (though not clear who he is if not) and if we had to take a stab at it the general consensus, if I might guess, is that she is connected to Alexander BORLAND (b.c. 1771, ME, NEW ENGLAND, settles NB, CANADA) m. Frances (born O'BRIEN) CHRISTOPHER (b.c. 1783, NH, USA). But more work is needed still to sew that stuff up.

Cheers and thanks to all that keep hammering away at this.

Andrew

Descendants of James W. GROAT

1 James W. GROAT b: Dec 1820 in NY, USA or CANADA, poss. QUE, or Whitby, ON. - see notes src1: 1851 Census, Ontario (Upper Canada), src2: 1851 Census, Ontario (Upper Canada) d: 22 Sep 1854 in Dunn, Dane Co., WI, USA src: Probate Document
. +Freedom BORLAND b: Abt. 08 Sep 1829 in of Whitby Twp., Ontario Co., ON, CANADA, possibly b. VT, USA src1: 1851 Census, Ontario (Upper Canada), src2: 1920 Federal Census (USA), src3: 1851 Census, Ontario (Upper Canada), src4: 1920 Federal Census (USA) m: 14 Jan 1846 in Whitby Twp. Ontario Co., ON, CANADA - see notes src1: Home District Marriage Registers, Gov't of Prov of Ontario Archives, src2: Ontario, Canada, Marriages , 1801-1928 d: 19 Jan 1858 in Dunn, Dane Co., WI, USA src: Probate Document
........... 2 Chester Norman GROAT b: 28 Jan 1847 in CANADA src1: 1851 Census, Ontario (Upper Canada), src2: Washington Death Certificates, 1907-1960 (LDS Collection) d: 03 Nov 1931 in King Co., WA, USA, of Mercer, East Seattle src1: 1920 Federal Census (USA), src2: Washington Death Certificates, 1907-1960 (LDS Collection)
............... +Hannah Rosalie POOLER b: Abt. 1853 in WI, USA (parents both NY, USA) src: 1880 Federal Census m: 28 Oct 1870 in Dane Co., WI, USA src: Wisconsin Historical Society d: Aft. Nov 1931 in of King Co., WA, USA src: Washington Death Certificates, 1907-1960 (LDS Collection)
......................... 3 Merton Lester GROAT b: Abt. 30 Jun 1874 in WI, USA src1: 1920 Federal Census (USA), src2: Washington Death Certificates, 1907-1960 (LDS Collection), src3: 1880 Federal Census d: 18 Feb 1936 in Seattle, King Co., WA, USA src: Washington Death Certificates, 1907-1960 (LDS Collection)
......................... 3 William E. GROAT b: 15 Jan 1872 in Blue Earth Twp., Faribault Co., WI, USA src: Minnesota Births and Christenings, 1840-1980 (LDS) d: Bef. 1880 in doesn't appear in 1880 Census src: 1880 Federal Census
......................... 3 Charles M. GROAT b: Bet. 1884 - 1886 in MN, USA (death register says mother was "Grace (UNKNOWN)"??? src1: Washington Death Certificates, 1907-1960 (LDS Collection), src2: 1920 Federal Census (USA) d: 26 Nov 1960 in Seattle, King Co., WA, USA src: Washington Death Certificates, 1907-1960 (LDS Collection)
......................... 3 Lillian M. GROAT b: Abt. 1892 in WA, USA src: 1920 Federal Census (USA) d: Aft. 1920 in of Seattle, King Co., WA, USA src: 1920 Federal Census (USA)
........... 2 Melissa N. (GROAT) STEVENS b: Bet. 19 Oct 1854 - 1855 in Stoughton, Rutland Twp., Dane Co., WI, USA src1: Probate Document, src2: Illinois, Deaths and Stillbirths, 1916-1947 (LDS), src3: 1900 U.S. Federal Census, src4: 1920 Census, Franklin Co., NE, Grant Twp., src5: 1870 Federal Census, src6: 1880 Federal Census d: 11 Dec 1926 in (age 71, but has to be at least 1854 then), Pearl City, Stephenson, Co., IL, USA src: Illinois, Deaths and Stillbirths, 1916-1947 (LDS)
........... 2 Alma Elma Edna E. GROAT b: Bet. 1852 - 1855 in CANADA src1: 1880 United States Census, src2: 1920 Federal Census (USA), src3: 1870 Federal Census d: Aft. 1920 in of Stoughton, Dane Co., WI, USA src: 1920 Federal Census (USA)
............... +Robert B. McCOMB b: Abt. 1846 in IRELAND src: 1880 United States Census m: 05 Feb 1872 in Dane Co., WI, USA src: Wisconsin Historical Society d: Aft. 1880 in of Rutland, Dane Co., WI, USA src: 1880 United States Census
......................... 3 Cassius McCOMB b: Abt. 1873 in WI, USA, of Dane Co. src: 1880 United States Census d: 07 Sep 1938 src: Missouri Graves of Spanish-American War
......................... 3 Alta McCOMB b: Abt. 1877 in WI, USA, of Dane Co. src: 1880 United States Census
......................... 3 Lew (Levi?) W. McCOMB b: Abt. 1892 in WI, USA src: 1920 Federal Census (USA) d: Aft. 1920 in of Stoughton, Dane Co., WI, USA src: 1920 Federal Census (USA)

Re: Freedom Groat - update Census is from Dorchester, ON, 1851

RobertCAsquith — 2011-06-27 00:50:27Z

If any body sees this at this late date, the name in the 1851 census under James Groat and Freedom is Chester Norman. Chester died in Kings Co., Washington, USA on 3 Nov 1931. His death certificate lists his father as James Groat and his mother as Freedom Borland. Another child of James and Freedom that I know of is Elma E. There seems to be two James groat's, both born about the same time.

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

Paltia — 2011-05-31 10:55:30Z

Thank you Andrew. I did visit your site a couple nights ago. I also discovered Jim Groat's site several years ago. :)

I'll go back and look again. Some in the family say that Martha Lavania Williams was NA. But I'm not sure.

Thank you again. Barb

Re: Groat, War of 1812, Ontario

jtimleck — 2011-05-29 20:09:39Z

Hi again Fred,

at ourontario.ca you will find some original muster rolls including GROAT in the Lincoln Militia - Caleb GROAT (GRADT etc.) this is my connection. Caleb, as near as we know, is a Palatine descendant, spent time in QUE (signed Oath at Missisquoi 1795), migrated to Whitby, then to Lincoln/Grimsby where he fought in Lundy's Lane (1812) and then settled at Chinguacousy, Peel Co., ON. As far as I know the GROATs you mention are NOT related to him - however the eastern Ontario connection cannot be denied and something might still be "lurking" yet to be discovered (hence my interest in your note and "placing" these folk. My grandmother once said we had "indian blood" in us but I can't find any connection/proof of that. Suffice to say however the CRYSLER family that m. into the Indigenous GROATs of Six Nations area of Ontario seems to believe similar (Google "Blue Eyed Indian" + Crysler/Chrysler).

As for your Henry GROAT serving in 1813...

I can only say that in my work I have the MORDEN clan in my stuff - James MOREDEN (I'm assuming is same you mention heading these militia) m. Margaret PARLIAMENT. James MORDEN's sister Elizabeth m. Johannes CRYSLER - Johannes CRYSLER's (Capt., b. 1765) grandaunt is Anna Catharine GREILSER/KREILSER/CRYSLER. And Anna Catharine m. Gabriel GRADT/GRAAT/GROAT. Gabriel is very likely **at least** my Caleb GROAT's (above) G grandfather, or grand uncle. Now you can see we've come full circle and why/how these connections are of interest.

But this Henry I have no place for - however he very well be Henry Ruiter DE GROAT, b.31 Oct 1794 (NB, poss. QUE, of Noyan), who m. Elizabeth COVEY. Henry's brother, Peter DE GROAT c Nov 21 1791 m. Hannah VAN NORMAN - if you note in your militia lists the appearance of VANORMAN (with Michael and WIlliam GROAT, so might be pushing the wrong connection)

Here's the outline descendant tree I've worked out for Michael and William - I might have misspoke last and I believe, have them as, relations, brothers, in my work. I don't know if I would qualify them as UELs proper as it is possible they were indentured in some way - and were possibly even slaves or servants to Joseph BRANT and associates perhaps. It would not be "fair" to obscure that possibility behind more grand suggestions of patriotism (just my two cents). Erik Jensen of the Oneida/Six Nations has done considerable work on these communities - however there are also considerable errors in his online tree - many are corrected below. You are correct, or at least I am in agreement with you, that they must know one another - but the confusion comes in census labels of them as "Black", "African", "Mulatto", "Colored", "Indian" etc. so while we make clearer distinctions it's certainly not clear what's what at times.

Descendants of Parent Nego/Black/African GROAT
1 Parent Negro/Black/African GROAT
........ 2 William -Tuscarora(poss.'NEGRO')- GROAT 1783 - 1852
............ +Amelia (Emily) -Negro- SMITH 1789 - 1871
................... 3 Abram/Abraham -Tuscarora/Negro- GROAT 1814 - 1901
....................... +Catherine later wAbrGROAT(Tusc) UNKNOWN 1831 - 1891
............................. 4 Abraham GREEN 1876 - 1891
................... *2nd Wife of Abram/Abraham -Tuscarora/Negro- GROAT:
....................... +Sarah Ann -Tuscarora- WILLIAMS 1813 - 1861
............................. 4 William -Tuscarora- GROAT 1840 -
............................. 4 John -Tuscarora- GROAT 1840 -
............................. 4 Lydia -Tuscarora- GROAT 1840 - 1911
................................. +David -Indian BEESWAX WFT Est. 1820-1835 - 1871
........................................ 5 Catherine -Chippewa- BEESWAX 1857 - 1891
............................................ +[9] Joseph -Chippewa- BEAVER 1840 - 1918
.................................................. 6 Mary -Indian- BEAVER 1883 - 1891
.................................................. 6 Amelia -Chippewa- BEAVER 1889 - 1911
........................................ 5 George -Indian- BEESWAX 1859 - 1891
............................................ +Eliza UNKNOWN 1865 - 1891
.................................................. 6 Mary -Indian- BEESWAX 1880 - 1891
.................................................. 6 Jonas -Indian- BEESWAX 1882 - 1891
.................................................. 6 Susan -Indian- BEESWAX 1885 - 1891
.................................................. 6 David -Indian- BEESWAX 1891 - 1891
........................................ 5 [1] Abigail -Chippeway- BEESWAX LONGFISH DOUGLAS 1867 - 1922
............................................ +[2] Alpheus Alfred (Alvis) -Tuscarora- SHERRY 1869 - 1922
.................................................. 6 [3] Hilton SHERRY 1899 - 1911
.................................................. 6 [4] Mabel SHERRY 1902 - 1926
...................................................... +[5] Henry ANTOINE 1888 - 1926
.................................................. 6 [6] Sarah Ann SHERRY 1905 - 1911
...................................................... +[7] Elias SILVER 1889 - 1921
........................................ 5 [8] Jonas -Chippeway- BEESWAX SYSCOME SISCUM 1869 - 1871
............................. *2nd Husband of Lydia -Tuscarora- GROAT:
................................. +George -Tuscarora- BEAVER 1840 - 1869
........................................ 5 Elijah -Tuscarora- BEAVER 1861 - 1929
............................................ +Louisa -Mohawk- BRANT 1861 - 1911
.................................................. 6 Elijah -Tuscarora- BEAVER, Jr. 1910 - 1998
...................................................... +Evelyn TJADER 1914 - 1995
........................................ *2nd Wife of Elijah -Tuscarora- BEAVER:
............................................ +Amanda CARTER 1887 - 1918
............................. *3rd Husband of Lydia -Tuscarora- GROAT:
................................. +James LONGFISH 1838 - 1891
........................................ 5 [1] Abigail -Chippeway- BEESWAX LONGFISH DOUGLAS 1867 - 1922
............................................ +[2] Alpheus Alfred (Alvis) -Tuscarora- SHERRY 1869 - 1922
.................................................. 6 [3] Hilton SHERRY 1899 - 1911
.................................................. 6 [4] Mabel SHERRY 1902 - 1926
...................................................... +[5] Henry ANTOINE 1888 - 1926
.................................................. 6 [6] Sarah Ann SHERRY 1905 - 1911
...................................................... +[7] Elias SILVER 1889 - 1921
........................................ 5 [8] Jonas -Chippeway- BEESWAX SYSCOME SISCUM 1869 - 1871
........................................ 5 Aveline ALLUM 1885 - 1891
............................. *4th Husband of Lydia -Tuscarora- GROAT:
................................. +Isaac -Seneca- DOUGLAS 1846 - 1901
............................. 4 Abram -Tuscarora- GROAT WFT Est. 1840-1870 -
............................. 4 Henry G. -Tuscarora- GROAT 1848 - 1917
................................. +Nancy w HenryGIndigenous-GROAT UNKNOWN 1850 - 1881
........................................ 5 Martha -Tuscarora- GROAT 1875 - 1891
........................................ 5 Andrew -Tuscarora- GROAT 1879 - 1927
............................................ +Wife Andrew-Tuscarora-GROAT UNKNOWN WFT Est. 1890-1900 - 1927
........................................ 5 Emma -Tuscarora- GROAT 1879 - 1891
........................................ 5 James -Tuscarora- GROAT 1881 - 1881
........................................ 5 Hannah -Tuscarora- GROAT 1886 - 1903
............................................ +Albert -Delaware- WRIGHT 1875 - 1903
............................. *2nd Wife of Henry G. -Tuscarora- GROAT:
................................. +Lucy WILLIAMS 1856 - 1911
........................................ 5 Carrie May -Tuscarora- GROAT 1892 - 1917
............................................ +David -Tuscarora- HERKIMER 1881 - 1917
........................................ 5 Sarah -Tuscarora- GROAT 1894 - 1911
........................................ 5 Henrietta -Tuscarora- GROAT 1897 - 1911
............................. 4 Samson -Tuscarora/Negro- GROAT 1850 - 1891
................................. +Christeen/Kathln -Tusc- w SamsonGROAT UNKNOWN 1831 - 1871
........................................ 5 Isaac -IndianTuscarora- GROAT 1867 - 1871
........................................ 5 Sarah Ann -IndianTuscarora- GROAT 1867 - 1871
........................................ 5 Solomon -IndianTuscarora- GROAT 1870 - 1871
........................................ 5 Mary -Tuscarora- GROAT 1873 -
........................................ 5 Ida -Tuscarora- GROAT 1876 -
........................................ 5 Leah -Tuscarora- BAREFOOT 1879 -
............................. 4 Levina -Tuscarora/Negro- GROAT 1852 - 1927
2
................................. +Solomon -Tuscarora- NASH 1836 - 1911
........................................ 5 Caroline -Tuscarora- NASH 1868 - 1946
............................................ +Peter -Tuscarora- BEAVER 1858 - 1920
.................................................. 6 George -Tuscarora- BEAVER 1889 - 1911
...................................................... +Emily w Geo -Tuscarora-BEAVER UNKNOWN 1881 - 1911
.................................................. 6 Howard -Tuscarora- BEAVER 1895 - 1911
.................................................. 6 Wilfred -Tuscarora- BEAVER 1897 - 1911
.................................................. 6 Freda -Tuscarora- BEAVER 1901 - 1911
........................................ *2nd Husband of Caroline -Tuscarora- NASH:
............................................ +Melchie -Delaware- WRIGHT 1877 - 1922
........................................ 5 Eli -Tuscarora- NASH 1869 - 1891
........................................ 5 Amos -Tuscarora C. BEAVER NASH 1871 - 1901
............................................ +Mary Jane -Tuscarora- OWENS 1874 - 1935
.................................................. 6 Truman -Tuscarora- BEAVER 1893 - 1919
...................................................... +Mary MILLER 1903 - 1919
.................................................. 6 Caroline -Tuscarora- BEAVER 1895 - 1911
.................................................. 6 Mary -Tuscarora- BEAVER 1898 - 1911
........................................ 5 Wallice -Tuscarora- NASH 1875 - 1881
........................................ 5 Levi -Tuscarora- NASH 1875 - 1881
........................................ 5 Walter -Tuscarora- NASH 1881 - 1881
........................................ 5 Noah -Tuscarora- NASH 1884 - 1901
............................. *2nd Husband of Levina -Tuscarora/Negro- GROAT:
................................. +David WEBSTER 1836 - 1901
........................................ 5 Lucias (sic) WEBSTER 1879 - 1891
........................................ 5 William 'Willie' WEBSTER 1884 - 1891
........................................ 5 [10] Charles WEBSTER 1887 - 1911
........................................ 5 Wallace (adoptedWalliceNASH?) WEBSTER 1888 - 1891
........................................ 5 [11] Sarah Jane WEBSTER 1890 - 1911
........................................ 5 David Lewis WEBSTER 1890 - 1901
............................. *3rd Husband of Levina -Tuscarora/Negro- GROAT:
................................. +[9] Joseph -Chippewa- BEAVER 1840 - 1918
............................. *4th Husband of Levina -Tuscarora/Negro- GROAT:
................................. +Nicholas -Tuscarora- OWENS 1868 - 1935
........................................ 5 [10] Charles WEBSTER 1887 - 1911
........................................ 5 [11] Sarah Jane WEBSTER 1890 - 1911
................... 3 Elizabeth -Tuscarora- GROAT 1819 - 1852
................... 3 William -Tuscarora- GROAT 1822 - 1852
....................... +Mary w William-Tuscarora-GROAT UNKNOWN 1832 - 1852
............................. 4 Peggy GROAT 1849 - 1852
............................. 4 Mike GROAT 1850 - 1852
................... 3 Sarah -Tuscarora- GROAT 1832 - 1852
................... 3 John -Tuscarora- GROTE GROAT 1833 - 1852
................... 3 Hannah -Tuscarora- GROAT 1835 - 1852
........ 2 Michael "African" GROAT 1794 - 1820
............ +Mother w MichaelAFRICAN GROAT UNKNOWN
................... 3 Peter "African" GROAT WFT Est. 1815-1835 -
................... 3 Jemime "African" GROAT WFT Est. 1815-1835 -
................... 3 Margaret "African" GROAT WFT Est. 1815-1835 -
................... 3 Elizabeth "African" GROAT WFT Est. 1815-1835 -
................... 3 William "African" GROAT 1820 - 1900
....................... +Elizabeth ADAMS 1826 - 1909
............................. 4 Hannah "African" GROAT 1850 - 1932
................................. +Thomas LILLIE 1842 - 1890
........................................ 5 William R. LILLIE 1872 -
............................................ +Helen GRAY 1872 -
........................................ 5 Annie LILLIE 1883 -
............................................ +George J. ROBINSON 1878 -
........................................ 5 Percy LILLIE 1886 -
........................................ 5 Ruby LILLIE 1889 -
........................................ 5 Leonard LILLIE 1891 -
............................. 4 Mary Jane "African" GROAT 1851 - 1930
............................. 4 Edith Elizabeth "African" GROAT 1854 - 1867
............................. 4 Louisa "African" GROAT 1856 - 1943
............................. 4 Abigail "African" GROAT 1859 - 1939
................................. +Thomas Hackett FENNELL 1856 - 1935
........................................ 5 Charles William FENNELL 1879 -
............................................ +Ethel May HILL 1882 -
........................................ 5 Olive Elizabeth FENNELL 1900 -
............................. 4 Rebecca "African" GROAT 1862 -
............................. 4 James "African" GROAT 1864 -
............................. 4 Henrietta Cecilia "African" GROAT 1865 -
............................. 4 Harriet Alice "African" GROAT 1870 - 1870
............................. 4 Winnifred "African" GROAT 1871 - 1959
................................. +POSSIBLY(CHECK)LLOYD RAMSEY
............................. 4 Martha "African" GROAT 1872 - 1881