Message Boards

You are here: Message Boards > Surnames > Blennerhassett > Blennerhasset's of Norfolk, England
Names or Keywords
All Boards   Blennerhassett - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Blennerhasset's of Norfolk, England

Sort
  << Prev  |  Viewing 11 - 16 of 16

Re: Blennerhasset's of Norfolk, England

ironmann60  (View posts) Posted: 13 May 2008 3:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Blennerhassett Blaverhasset Blener Hassett Bleuverhasset Mann Hobart & others
Bill,
It is some time since I wrestled the descendancy of a few Blennerhassetts/Blaverhassetts, however I note a recurring discrepancy in the notes on this Posting Board, and that is the "marriage" between John "Blaverhassett" b:1423 and Jayne Tyndall b: 1480+/-.
It had seemed to me to be a rather impetuous assumption that the various dates were correct, what with daughter Eleanor being born when the old boy was in his 80's!

My own extensive (timewise at any rate) research indicates the cause of the confusion to be the actual marrriage of John Blenner/Blaver of 1423 to a well 'dowried' woman named Margaret Jayne (or Jayne??) Heigham, d/o of Thomas Heigham & and Isabel Fraunceys. Jayne was born bet 1424-1427, and was clearly a much better 'match' for John B. than Jane Tydall [OF HEIGHAM GREEN - hence the confusion]! b:1480-1483 at Hockford(sic), Thetford, Norfolk, England. John was no doubt also delighted to receive the eventual Title to her father's Manor of "Heigham"!
Happily, this matched pair of John and Jayne Heigham had two sons (actually three, but only two are of interest here), named in ordered sequence Thomas b:1446-1450; and Robert b: abt 1451.
Younger son Robert begat another "2nd son" and called him John Blennerhassett in 1481, AND it was he who was man enough to handle that little old problem of Jayne Tyndall by marrying her sometime between 1493-1502.
And there you have the reconstructed lineage of Eleanor (aka Ellinor; Ellin) Blennerhassett (b: abt 1507) who would marry Myles Hobart! [Hobart would eventually father the line leading to an 'inventive' fellow living in England during WWII named Hobart who would deam up various D-Day Invasion "contraptions" known as "Hobart's Funnies" - things like "The Flail" for clearing mines; possibly the "Hedgehog" for clearing hedgerows; the floatation equipped tank, another tank that 'unrolled' it's own canvas roadway in front of itself - and others].

Back to the elder son of Jayne Heigham and the 1423 version of John Blennerhassett/Blaverhassett -Thomas Blaverhassett - he would marry twice - firstly to a lady named Jane Sutton and sired John (1493); possibly a Richard abt 1500; and lastly, a Samuel (date not established) whom we shall see again!; and secondly to Mary or Margaret Braham, where Thomas would continue his 'begetting' with renewed vigour! Ergo, along came Ann; Agnes; Elizabeth; Thomas Jr; Margaret; and Kathryn! Having perhaps been 'henpecked' by "five sisters", our Thomas Junior decided to 'bail out', and joined the Priesthood!
The latest John (1493)in the earlier marriage above, one John Blaverhassett of 1493-1510 married twice (just like Daddy), firstly to Elizabeth Cornwallis (the Cornwallis was a "title' - the actual surname of all of the Cornwallis clan was "Mann"), and the happy couple quickly had a daughter Elizabeth, {named for her mother no doubt) and this Elizabeth "the younger" would indeed marry well - to Sir Lyonell Throckmorton, and thereafter prodigiously breed a good many descendants.
Next, John Blaverhassett (1493 version) followed in Dad's footsteps and proceeded to attract a second wife also - this lady was Mary A. Echingham, d/o Sir Edward E Echingham & Mary Everard. Mary and John became a "couple", as in 'a couple of rabbits', for that is their breeding record!
Twelve children - my goodness they we just like my Scottish forebears!
Their first was a daughter (b: Bet 1555-1561)whom they named Frances (Blanner Hasset) Blaverhassett [I won't repeat the rest of the kids names unless someone is interested - I'm not). Good Frances married a young fellow named Sir William Man (aka Mann; Manne; Mayne), [which is my last name by the way - and Frances is a many times Gr-Grandmother of mine]

WIlliam Mann and Frances lived in Canterbury where he was Alderman of the Westgate Ward (and Keeper of the West Gate). The family worshipped in St Mary Bredin Church, and there are several records of their attendance in that very old established church. Amoung the "visitors"(??) was none other than our good old younger "brother" Samuel Blennerhassett of Lowdham in Suffolk (of which his inheritance of Lowdham Manor does seem perfectly useful as our "form of documentation" for the long ago marriage of "old John" Bleverhassett/ Blennerhassett to Jayne Heigham - yes??) Sam did pretty well for a 'fourth Son')!

Just to remain annoyingly difficult to spell and often changing with each generation, next to Samuel in the pew seems to be an unnamed "Bleuverhassett"! Even with all those letters you would think they could get it right in 200 years!!! Frances, who proves to be rather "quick minded" in a lawsuit some years later, has carried on the 'family tradition' of 'spelling by confusion', and is listed in the Church Records as "Blener Hassett", and clearly was not the winner of any spelling bees either!
Of little interest to just about everyone reading this discourse is that this couple, Frances Bl. and William Mann would become the grandparents of one William Mann who marries Affra Parker, and is believed by many to be the "first of the name Mann" in Massachusetts Colony some years later. I for one no longer accept that premise, and indeed I believe that I am very close to actually documenting that William Mann as staying in England!

Back to Bl-Hassett for a last moment, - I have located the apparent Blennerhassett who removed to Ireland and grew the family there, however I seem to have misplaced the record at the moment (and I really don't want to have to look for it)!

I do hope that my 'diatribe-soliloquay' will be of benefit to you and others seeking Blennerhassetts and Blaverhassetts wherever they may pop up. I do not claim to be totally error free (or especially smug either), and I invite any corrections or details that any of you may wish to provide - but I can't answer many enquiries at this time!
Regards and "Good Rooting"

Ron Mann
Edmonton, Canada

Re: Blennerhasset's of Norfolk, England

richard_vanwagenen  (View posts) Posted: 13 May 2008 4:17AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: blennerhasset's
Thank you very much for clearing up the mess.


Richard Van Wagenen
In Nebraska

Re: Blennerhasset's of Norfolk, England

ironmann60  (View posts) Posted: 14 May 2008 7:50PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: de Lowdham de Kelvedon Blenerhassett
Richard,
I just came across an old posting of yours wherein you are seeking the parents of Joan de Lowdham who married Rolf Blenerhassett.
Her father is John Sir de Lowdham, b: abt 1370, Lowdham Manor. He married Jane Heiress of Braxted de Kelvedon, b: abt 1373 at Great Braxyed (Brasted), Norfolk, England.
children:
1)Joan (Heiress of Lowdham) De Lowdham, b:<1409; d:>1491 at Frenze Hall, Depwade, Norfolk, England
2) Alice De Lowdham
3)John (poss) De Lowdham b: aft 1409 m: Alice Unknown

Contact me at rodeochaps@shaw.ca and I can send you the Armorial of Blenerhassett ["Arms"]
The Ancestry "attach" command wants to just send the 'tracking' route, which then opens my entire file to the entire web! No Thanks Ancestry, I don't think we'll do it that way!!!

Ron

Re: Blennerhasset's of Norfolk, England

billjehan  (View posts) Posted: 15 May 2008 9:10AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Blennerhassett Blenerhayset Lowdham Loudham
Ron,

You are inadvertantly repeating an old error here, not your fault, a principal culprit being the otherwise excellent historian G. Andrews Moriarty ("The East Anglian Blennerhassetts" 1944, p.275) who had his Johns confused and many people since have blindly copied him.

You write:
"...Her father is John Sir de Lowdham, b: abt 1370, Lowdham Manor. He married Jane Heiress of Braxted de Kelvedon, b: abt 1373 at Great Braxyed (Brasted), Norfolk, England..."

but this is not so...

The John de Lowdham (not Sir) who was father of Joanna "Joan" de Lowdham who married Ralph (not Rolf) de Blenerhayset, was the great-grandson of the Sir John de Lowdham who married Joanna "Joan" de Kelvedon.

The line goes as follows:

Sir John de Lowdham b.c1308(as aged 21 in 1329) d.1355
held Loudham, Co.Suffolk & Frenze, Co.Norfolk from 1329.
He married Joanna "Joan" (sometimes shown as Jane) de Kelvedon (d.1371), only dau. & heir of Sir William Kelvedon, Knight, of the manor of Kelvedon (Kelvedon Hall) at Great Braxted, Co.Essex.

They had at least two sons:
1. John de Lowdham (d.1373) who held Loudham, Frenze & Kelvedon from 1355

2. Sir Thomas de Lowdham, Knight (d.1384/5, not c1416/17 as some sources say) who married Maude <???>.

Sir Thomas de Lowdham & Maude had a son:
John de Lowdham (b.c1377/8, d.c1423/4 - from his i.p.m. 1423/4, 2 Henry VI) who married Alice <???> (d.after 1428).

John de Lowdham & Alice had a daughter and sole heir: Joanna "Joan" de Lowdham (b.c1409/10, not c1404 as some sources have - she was aged 14yrs at her father's i.p.m. 1423/4, 2 Henry VI). She died 20-June-1501 (this date is from a transcription of her memorial brass, once at Frenze church but now lost, but described by Anstis (G.6 folio 39). Blomefield ("History of Norfolk" vol. 1 p.141) incorrectly gives her age at death as 97yrs and many others have copied this - should be c91/92yrs.

This Joanna "Joan" de Lowdham, being her father's sole heir, inherited:
1. Manor of Loudham (Loudham Hall), Pettistree, Co.Suffolk
2. Manor of Frenze (Frenze Hall), Diss, Co.Norfolk
3. one of the two parts of the manor of boylands (Boylands Hall), Scole, which lay half in Norfolk and half in Suffolk
4. Manor of Kelvedon (Kelvedon Hall, sometimes called Easterford Hall), Great Braxted, Co.Essex.
5. Toddenham, Co.Suffolk
6. Halvergate, Co.Suffolk

Joanna "Joan" de Lowdham married twice, 1st to Thomas de Heveningham (Hevenyngham) who d.c1422/3 without issue;
she married 2nd to Sir Ralph de Blenerhayset (Blennerhassett), Knight, of Carlisle, Co.Cumberland (b.c1400 Cumberland, d.14-Nov-1475 at Frenze, Co.Norfolk. Rapph was the 5th son of Ralph de Blenerhayset of Carlisle.

From him the Blennerhassett family of Co.Norfolk, Co.Suffolk (and Co. Fermanagh & Dublin in Ireland) all descended - these branches are all extinct in the male line.

The family name Loudham and place name Lowdham were of course originally both the same, but the place name evolved into the present spelling "Lowdham" - hense the different spellings.

Hope this helps.

Bill Jehan





Re: Blennerhasset's of Norfolk, England

RMMcKeag  (View posts) Posted: 5 Jun 2008 4:27PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Blennerhassett Osborne Kerrison Preston
I have the following notes on the Norfolk Blennerhassets but cannot vouch for their accuracy - any corrections would be welcome. I suppose they descend from the Cumbrian family and, if so, I should like to know how. The following list of Blennerhassetts descends to a marriage in the 17th century with the Osbornes of Seething in Norfolk. In the 18th century the Osbornes married into the Kerrison family and they in turn married into the Prestons of Great Yarmouth - my grandmother's family.

John Blennerhassett, born 1424 in Suffolk, he has a brass in Frenze Church with effigy in armour, arms of Blennerhassett and quarterings and Higham, another shield gone, inscription, "Hic jacet venabilis vir Johnes Blenhayset Arminger qu [27 Nov.1510]”, i.e. "Here lies that honoured man John Blennerhassett, Esq., who died 8 Nov.1510 in his 87th.year". On his tomb are 4 armorial shields, 2 are Blennerhassett, the 3rd. is quartered 1st. and 4th. Blennerhassett, 2nd.Lowdham and 3rd.Orton. The 4th.shield shows Orton impaling Heigham.
Married Margaret Higham, born 1425 in Gazeley Parish, Higham Grene, Suffolk, she has a black marble tomb in Gazeley Church, shields of Blennerhassett and quarterings impaling Higham, quartering Francis Howard.

Their son:

Robert Blennerhassett, born about 1452 in Frenze, Norfolk.
Married Margaret Kemp, born about 1453 in Gissinge, Norfolk.

Their son:

William Blennerhassett.
Married Ann Colby, born about 1507, of Brundish, Suffolk.


Their son:

Edward Blennerhassett, Knight.
Married Susan Pickerell, born in Cringleford, Norfolk.

Their son:

Ralph Blennerhassett, born 1578, of Pockthorpe, Norfolk.
Married --- Deth, born in Gimingham, Norfolk.

Their daughter:

Elizabeth Blennerhassett, of Pockforth.
Married Edward Osborne, born about 1606, of Seething, Norfolk, Gentleman.

Re: Blennerhasset's of Norfolk, England

ironmann60  (View posts) Posted: 10 Jun 2008 6:15PM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: Blennerhassett
to: RMMcKeag
I'll have to get back to you a bit later as other things are pressing at the moment. Perhaps best we "e-talk" by direct e-mail(?)
I have a "poor" copy of the "Arms" of Blennerhassett, which may of may not be correct. Do you have copy of description of those you have mentioned?
[I am reluctant to send my"copy" of the "Arms" because I think that this board copies and perhaps publishes the COMPLETE PATH to my photo file in the filename for the photo that they have, and I do not want that "obviously private information" displayed on a posting photo, OR for that matter, stored anywhere except in my own computer!
I am at rodeochaps@shaw.ca
Ron Mann
Edmonton, Canada
Results per page    << Prev  |  Viewing 11 - 16 of 16

Find a Board

Page Tools