General - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Petter Niclas Birth Record Transcription

bohjohan — 2013-05-23 06:37:07Z

The parents' address is number 21(?) Backa.

"Kyrkt. d. 3/9 af P.L." = [mother] received in church the 3rd Sep by P.L.

Mother's age 27.

The list of names in the column to the right are the witnesses ("Faddrar"), who might or might not be related, and the last column have their addresses.

"M-Faddr." (mans-faddrar) = male witnesses

"Q-Faddr." (qvinno-faddrar) = female witnesses

// Bo Johansson

Re: Where is Ryd?

Nils_Lindgren — 2013-05-23 04:47:24Z

Hi

Probably the parish in county of Skaraborg

Nils

Where is Ryd?

19sweden94 — 2013-05-23 00:01:17Z

GID 738.43.7900 in Hogsater, Alvsborg Page 31 in 1821-1825 section.

All help appreciated.

Hal Bern

Re: Muster Roll Translation - Hans Johansson Boman

roconnor199 — 2013-05-22 22:24:44Z

Thanks Jeff - your comments and help are much appreciated. I obtained these images on SVAR - they are for the Smalands Cavalry Regiment, Svetlanda Company, Rote 54. In each case there was only one muster in each year.

Regards
Robert

Re: Muster Roll Translation - Hans Johansson Boman

jabenson43 — 2013-05-22 20:57:32Z

It's not that we don't want to help you with your four muster rolls... Unfortunately, the images you posted are all too small and/or indistinct to decipher, at least for my eyes.

Rather than post larger images, it would be *much* better if you would provide the source details for each so helpers can look up the original record. In other words, provide the page number or, failing that (not all musters are paginated), at least provide the name of the company your Boman served under. Generally, there were 8 companies in a regiment and it's a pain to have to potentially search all of them to find the right rote (in other words, there was a soldier #54 in *every* company so the rote number isn't sufficient). Image numbers are generally less valuable since they don't translate between services but you could include that as well. (I assume you must have found these images on either Arkiv Digital or SVAR.) Some muster rolls included multiple musters in the same volume (for example, musters taken on two different dates in the same year). If that's the case, please tell us which muster (the first? second? third?) your image came from.

Jeff

This is page 2

mloncaric13 — 2013-05-22 20:51:51Z

This is page 2.

Thank you!

Meredith

Court Records for 1825 Divorce: Translation Help, Please

mloncaric13 — 2013-05-22 20:50:36Z

Hi --

I have recently received the court records for my ancestors' divorce in about 1825, Stockholm. The actual document is 21 pages long and would be, I think, a time-consuming challenge to translate all at once(or I know it would be for me, Swedish dictionary by my side!). But I wondered if someone could help with a few pages here and there, so I can get a more detailed sense of was transpired in the divorce.

My main interest in these records is information about Sven Cantzoff; he appears in Stockholm records in 1800, but not before. He gives his birth year as 1764 in subsequent records, but no place of birth (anywhere). My hope is that the court records may provide some clues to his origin...

Again, I know this is a difficult request -- and I sincerely appreciate any and all help. I am trying any avenue I can think of to figure out where Sven Cantzoff came from; I am hoping to find some ideas in these records.

Thank you very much for your interest; I am grateful to this message board in general for all the help -- and support -- members have generously given me.

Meredith

Re: Translation Help with 1825 Divorce Document

mloncaric13 — 2013-05-22 20:39:00Z

Hi Ingela –

You suggest a good plan: parceling out a page or two of the court record for help with translation. I am sure that the translation itself would be easy (if a little drenched in pomposity!)…but only if one did not have to deal with the creative spelling and the archaic handwriting. It is then, as it would seem to me, a difficult task; I am fortunate to have found such generous help on this message board. I never would have thought people so interested and willing to share their expertise with a stranger (though, to be fair, a stranger who is a compatriot in the genealogical adventure).

I will post a few pages (I received it as a PDF, so have to transfer it into a Word or .jpg) on the general board and cross my fingers that someone has the patience!

Yes: the Finnish search. It was suggested to me – and I can tell myself – that Cantzoff is not originally a Swedish name. It transmuted into Kantzow by the 1850’s (and there were Kantzows in Stockholm at that time, but – as far as I am able to tell – they are not related and were of a higher social class), but the original seems to be Cantzoff or Cantzov. I’ve done some research in Finnish records online to no avail as of yet. Sven seems to spring from the ground in his mid-thirties to be recorded in Storkyrkan parish tax rolls in early 1800. He’s an apprentice at the time and that’s why I’ve been trying the guild angle.

From what you explain, getting hold of Sven’s guild application/documents would provide firm clues to his origin. Thank you so much for your discussion of what he had to do to become a member…It helps give more “shape” to his experience and character, and how he and his family lived. I had a hazy image of a small, dingy room, children in rags, etc., etc. That Sven was a professional and could/perhaps did make a decent income explains – maybe – why Eva Ekbom married him. I had wondered why a relatively young girl (she was 22) would marry a 38 year old man and this information, combined with the fact that their first son was born about 6 months after their marriage, clarifies things. Again, perhaps!

I had no idea about the orphanage; I assumed that the children were placed there by the city or by a special plea from their parents. Clearly, I am operating with a contemporary mindset. And, clearly, my Swedish pick-and-mix translation efforts miss clues (for example, that the boys were placed with Anders Andersson). Since Eva was a regular “visitor” in the prison on Langenholmen, she obviously wasn’t taking care of the children and Sven may not have wanted her to. Their last child, Carl, who died in infancy, was born in 1814, and I suspect that’s when things began to go downhill.

Sven is becoming more and more of a compelling character to me…What a life. Of his 6 children, 4 survive infancy, one dies in his twenties, one ends up in and out of the Sabbatsburg poorhouse, his 1 daughter remains unmarried (though is a fairly successful seamstress, with an apprentice girl of her own) – only Arvid Lorentz, my direct ancestor, seems to flourish. He becomes a cabinetmaker/carpenter and moves to Hernosand, Vasternorrland and raises his family.

I can’t tell you how much I enjoy your discussion! I appreciate the insight into my little family dramas that you provide. There is no way I could have gained the understanding that I believe I am acquiring without your help.

Thank you – and take care –
Meredith

Re: Skogsberg Family

misty694 — 2013-05-22 20:33:56Z

sioux city, iowa

Petter Niclas Birth Record Transcription

eric_c_olson — 2013-05-22 20:14:23Z

I need some help with the transcription of Petter Niclas birth record (image attached) from GID 1865.20.78600, Halland, Värö, Födde, 1979-1838, image 137, page 239 at the top. It looks like a listing of paternal and maternal grandparents with locations too. I can see the father is Christian Nilsson and the mother is Olena Andersdotter, but there is an additional note below their names.

Re: BERGSTEN, Uppsala

gothic_goddess_4_life — 2013-05-22 19:42:33Z

Hello my name is Libby and i live in America. My Maiden name is bergsten. My Grandparents landed in cleburn Ks and had a farm outside of Waterville ks.

Re: Translation Help with 1825 Divorce Document

isulv — 2013-05-22 15:24:08Z

Hi Meredith,

"Lilla sockersmulan" is definitely a term of endearment, but perhaps not a very serious one...don't think you should view yourself as a voyeuse just because of something as innocent as all that... ;-))

Court records are usually a very good source, because they didn't do things half way in those days. It's common for court records to have a page or so of family background. But perhaps there's more focus on Eva, since she was the guilty party...by rights she should even have gone to jail (as should Magnell) since adultery was a real, punishable crime until 1864.

Why don't you take the court records apart and publish only a page at a time? Translating one page is quite manageable, and even if every single page takes a day or two it would probably be quicker than if you tried it yourself. Particularly since it is of course written with the very "free" spelling they practised at the time, which makes it difficult to look up words. Also, some words are obsolete and some have quite a different meaning today.

I've read your posts on the Finnish forum, and could add a little about how guilds worked. You applied to a guild as an apprentice. The application had to have an excerpt from the birth records in the parish were you were born, showing that you were legitimate (born in wedlock or betrothal). For this you paid a fee. You then paid a master for the privilege of becoming an apprentice; you lived with the master and his family (food and lodging for doing apprentice work) and were over a number of years (usually four, shorter e.g. for a shoemaker) given increasingly more difficult tasks. After the set number of years (didn't matter if you were a genius at the craft, you still had to
do your years - "pay your dues") you made - on your own, without the master helping you - a special piece of work, a journeyman's piece. When this was approved by the guild, you were a journeyman and could be employed by either your old master or by any other master (usually you stayed with your old master a year or two before moving on). As a journeyman, you did just that - journeyed. This was to pick up new techniques, fashions etc. Your journeys could take you anywhere in Europe; Swedish journeymen were found in all Swedish towns but also in Denmark, England and, above all, Germany. Few went to France or Italy because of the hassle with religion (though at the Swedish regiment in France - Royal Suédois - it was a case of "don't ask don't tell"...). After you had been a journeyman for a good many years, you did your master piece and if this was approved you had the right to establish yourself as a master and accept journeymen and apprentices. However, setting up as a master required approval from the guild elders, who regulated how many masters were allowed in a particular town or city (a popular way of achieving this was to wed the widow of a master, "preserving the widow", and thereby take over the position).
Please note that before the major legal changes of 1846/1864 it was illegal to establish yourself as a craftsman outside a town or city, unless you were a tailor, shoemaker or smith not belonging to a guild and being appointed by a parish council to work in that particular parish. Craftsmen who weren't up to town standards or who had tired of waiting for an opportunity to establish their own business would become "parish craftsmen".

A journeyman didn't work for board and lodging but for wages - quite good ones if he was competent, had worked for a number of years and worked for a master with a good reputation (=many customers). Journeymen were allowed to set up house for themselves, and marry. Journeymen were definitely not paupers - though they weren't rich of course. A "normal" journeyman would live in a couple of rooms, have food on the table and maybe even a single maid. But this did take a thrifty wife, not a wife more interested in other men and partying.

About the orphanage "Allmänna barnhuset": it wasn't free to place a child there, and from the late 1700's children were kept there as short a time as possible before they were placed with foster-parents (already two centuries ago it was realized that children were better off in a proper family in the countryside than at an institution in the city). This is of course also what the records say: "uppfostras af" - raised by "bonden" (the farmer) Anders Andersson in Borgsjö parish in Medelpad [province]. I therefore doubt that it was due to poverty the children were placed at the orphanage (there was such a thing as pauper support by the parish, but the children wouldn't have been placed at the orphanage just because of that), but a man employed full-time couldn't look after children...since his wife wasn't to be trusted and indeed wasn't there after the divorce (he may have wanted to remove the children from an unsuitable environment before the divorce - I haven't checked the dates). "Poverty" comes into it only in the way that this journeyman tailor didn't seem to be able to afford a nanny.
Men always kept the children after a divorce.

Ingela

Re: Jöns Josefsson - Ingrid Jönsdotter marriage

margelsews — 2013-05-22 10:03:12Z

Bo-
Greatly appreciated! It is the correct record and that is good news. Obviously, I got the date wrong but I see now how it is done so that is another lesson for the future.

Thank you,
Margel

Re: Nils Martensson Farsten 1764-1832 - Soldier Name?

bohjohan — 2013-05-22 08:57:35Z

He could definitely have adopted such a surname anyway.

Especially if he was a craftsman of some sort, but in some parts of Sweden it was not uncommon for "ordinary" people to take non-patronymic surnames.

// Bo Johansson

Nils Martensson Farsten 1764-1832 - Soldier Name?

roconnor199 — 2013-05-22 08:20:58Z

My ancestor Nils Martensson Farsten 1764-1832 was born at Fardem, Gotland and died at Lojsta, Gotland. I have traced him through the various Household Examination records from 1769 to 1832 and have observed that from 1813 he uses the surname 'Farsten' in addition to his patronymic surname. Farsten looks, to me, like a 'soldier name', but I have found no reference to him being a soldier or being resident at a soldier croft? As he doesn't appear to have been a soldier, could he have adopted such a surname anyway?

Any comment appreciated.

Robert

Re: Jöns Josefsson - Ingrid Jönsdotter marriage

bohjohan — 2013-05-22 08:12:22Z

Number 5
The 20th July was issued banns certificate for marriage between bachelor and loose [no 1-year contract] worker Jöns Josephsson at Tottaholm and maid Ingrid Jönsdotter at Kylahof. The maids father present, consents to the marriage. Married the 3rd September.

// Bo Johansson

Muster Roll Translation - Hans Johansson Boman 4

roconnor199 — 2013-05-22 07:47:57Z

I attach a copy of the General Muster Roll for the Smalands Cavalry Regiment in 1714. I am interested in Hans Boman shown at Rote 54.

Could someone please translate his entry for me.

Thanking you in advance

Robert

Muster Roll Translation - Hans Johansson Boman 3

roconnor199 — 2013-05-22 07:45:22Z

attach a copy of the General Muster Roll for the Smalands Cavalry Regiment in 1724. I am interested in Hans Boman shown at Rote 54.

Could someone please translate his entry for me.

Thanking you in advance

Robert

Muster Roll Translation - Hans Johansson Boman 2

roconnor199 — 2013-05-22 07:43:28Z

I attach a copy of the General Muster Roll for the Smalands Cavalry Regiment in 1729. I am interested in Hans Boman shown at Rote 54.

Could someone please translate his entry for me.

Thanking you in advance

Robert

Muster Roll Translation - Hans Johansson Boman

roconnor199 — 2013-05-22 07:41:09Z

I attach a copy of the General Muster Roll for the Smalands Cavalry Regiment in 1710. I am interested in Hans Boman shown at Rote 54.

Could someone please translate his entry for me.

Thanking you in advance

Robert

Re: Need help translating birth record

Nils_Lindgren — 2013-05-22 05:20:15Z

Hi

The place is Snöå(h)n (Snow Creek) according to household examinations.
Matthis Ersson appears to be the father of the boy.

Nils

Re: Need help translating birth record

ghagberg163 — 2013-05-22 03:38:45Z

Norrbärke C:1 (1661-1688) Image 49 / page 43 (AID: v131258.b49.s43, NAD: SE/ULA/11109)

Matthis illegitimate son....
The place is "Snöåsen" (Snow Ridge)?
The mother's name looks like Kerstin Hansdotter

Two additional names Matthis Ersson and Sven ?? (Björnsson perhaps) dräng i Västansjö

Re: Which Karin Larsdotter is mine?

jabenson43 — 2013-05-22 02:06:17Z

[source: Grangärde C:2 (1684-1726) Image 109 / page 105 (AID: v130184.b109.s105, NAD: SE/ULA/12220)]

Marriage 14 Oct 1715: Per Ersson's residence is L???bäcken in ???? parish. Possibly Lerbäcken in Tuna (Stora Tuna) parish? Not sure. Bride's residence is Klenshyttan.

[source: Grangärde C:2 (1684-1726) Image 111 / page 107 (AID: v130184.b111.s107, NAD: SE/ULA/12220)]

Marriage 13 Oct 1720: Michel Andersson's residence is "Hedmora", possibly Hedemora parish. The bride's residence is Klenshytta[n].

I think I found your June 1690 Karin Larsdotter in household examination AI:2, page 172. But, this volume seems to only cover the years 1685-1699 (despite that Arkiv Digital's description says 1685-1717). So, she would not be old enough to marry by 1699.

Maybe someone else can take a run at those place names and render their opinion.

Jeff

Re: Which Karin Larsdotter is mine?

jjsmith2045 — 2013-05-22 01:27:41Z

I shouldn't complain, because I'm lucky to have any Household record back in the early 1700's, but HFL AI:3 is the worst one I've used. You would think it would be broken into different time blocks, but it's not. Not only are there many family members omitted, the priest didn't bother to record people in other villages, if they moved. He would just leave them in the original spot they were recorded and then add information to the individual. At least that's what I've found with my families.

I did look at the marriages and I think stopped around 1725 and have 3 possibilities, but I can't decipher the husband's locations to search for them in the Household records.

I've been searching AI:4 and made it half way through with no luck. Many people from this parish moved to Norrbärke, so that's just as likely of a place as well.

These are the 3 marriages I'm looking at from
Koppaberg, Grangärde, C:2:

14 October 1715 Per Ersson, p. 105
13 October 1720 Michel Andersson, p. 107
*13 September 1722 Anders Larsson in Norrbärke, Snöån p.108

The last marriage is not my Karin as I found her in Norrbärke, Snöån and she was born 6 May 1704.

The one thing I do like about HFL AI:3, is that it has a beautifully typed index of villages, which I've been trying to use to decipher the villages of potential husbands. Still, not much luck. Since, it doesn't appear to mention another parish, it seems likely that these husbands were from Grangärde.

Re: George Eckstrand b 1815 in Sweden

JayWise93 — 2013-05-22 01:27:19Z

Thank you again..I've spent the evening searching this family, trying to find emigration records and finally decided to go to the library tomorrow, as I don't have Ancestry World at home. I volunteer there, but was busy with a client today and didn't have time to do my own search. Also haven't been successful in finding immigration records ... and they are usually very complete from Sweden. Both sides of my family came from Norway and until 1913 they took a "feeder line" from Kristansand, Norway to Hull, England..rode the train across England and boarded a larger ship in Liverpool into Ellis Island. I'm about finished for today, thank you so much for your help. Lindy Wise

Re: George Eckstrand b 1815 in Sweden

wolofson1 — 2013-05-22 01:09:15Z

Lars Magnus Ekstrand had a younger brother:

Post 137176

Ekstrand, Anders Peter
Torpare (gift man)

f. 24/3 1818 i Kisa, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)

Utvandrad 30/5 1856
från Djupdalen Efsinge ägor, Tjärstad, Östergötlands län (Östergötland)
till Nordamerika

Källa: Husförhörslängd, s. 60

Emibas emigrationsakt: Tjärstad E 1856 033

--------------------------------

Although Anders Peter Ekstrand's birth date, 24 Mar 1818, is close to George Eckstrand's birth date, 25 Mar 1814/5, Anders Peter Ekstrand's Swedish family doesn't match George Ecktrand's family in Iowa. Household Exam attached. Source: Tjärstad-AI-12a-1856-1861-Image-72-page-60 AID: v29481.b72.s60

I might be "barking up the wrong tree".

Wade

Re: Translation Help with 1825 Divorce Document

mloncaric13 — 2013-05-22 00:52:27Z

Hi Ingela!

Thank you so much -- I have your lovely reply to my last query about my great-grandfather, Karl Emil Hjelte, and his Merchant Marine exploits, sitting in my inbox, still awaiting my own response. I told my mother what you had said about the term of endearment "little sugargrain," it being an old-style form, but the translation was accurate! (I feel even more a voyeuse reading that letter now; thankfully, it is the only "love letter" that we have. The rest are domestic and sisterly notes between Granny and her family back in Stockholm).

I appreciate your translation of this church record; I can tell that any further clues are going to be in the hefty court record which is about 20 pages. I will have to piece it all apart...I studied literature in my own semi-misspent youth and then taught at a university in Washington, DC before I had my children (who are both under age 5). So I do have some training in translation and deciphering old documents, but just not in Swedish. And the handwriting gets me every time!

I am curious about this Shoemaker Magnell...I know a bit about Eva; she was in and out of prison for drunkenness, once for stealing, once for begging -- and I knew the divorce was based on her infidelity. They also had to send two of their children to the orphanage for a year at a time -- twice -- because of their poverty. A hard, hard life.

Still no real clue about Sven Cantzoff, but I will forge ahead. To connect it for you, if interested, Sven Cantzoff is the "little sugargrain"'s (Karl Emil's wife) great-grandfather. Sven had Arvid who had Christina Olivia who had Marta Viktoria: voila!

Again, thank you so much for your kindness -- and your generosity with your time. The images of life in Sweden that you painted in previous posts have given color to my family's past. I may call upon your for your lawyerly help with the court documents, if you have the patience!

Take care --
Meredith

Re: Translation Help with 1825 Divorce Document

isulv — 2013-05-22 00:46:17Z

göra/ någonsin med sin lägersman SkomakareGesällen, Magnell, eller i öfrigt förr än hennes nu frånskilljda man antingen död eller gift är, eller dertill samtycker och konungen i nåder gifver ther lof till.

it/ ever with her seducer the Journeyman Shoemaker, Magnell, or otherwise before her now divorced husband either dead or married is, or thereto agrees and the king in his mercy gives permission to.

Sooo...the cuckolded husband is free to marry within six months (he's treated like a widower), but the erring wife cannot marry - neither her lover nor anyone else - unless her former husband has married or died (interesting that they put it the other way round…) or (perhaps not so likely) agrees to let her marry and the king gives his permission (since it’s "the king" and not "H.M. the King" it really means the county governor, or rather an official in his office).

Very sorry, no personal details...

Ingela

Re: Translation of Swedish word ArkivDigital record

ancestialhunter — 2013-05-22 00:38:32Z

Couldn't do it at that moment it was time to do other things such as prepare dinner etc.
Appreciate you imput.
MJ

Re: Translation of Swedish word ArkivDigital record

JOBaouab — 2013-05-22 00:33:35Z

I love the app for Arkiv Digital on my iPad. SVAR and Genline don't have one. Apps don't always have every bell and whistle. Don't avoid that app just because that feature is missing. The images are great and it is free.

I'm surprised that you didn't provide the source after I asked for it.

However, Ingela has answered your question.

Judy

Re: Translation Help with 1825 Divorce Document

isulv — 2013-05-22 00:28:21Z

Uttalandet
8.12
Till följe av 16 Cap. 6 § kyrkolagen verkställdes den genom Stockholms Norra Förstads Westra Kämnärsrätt den 14 förlidne Augusti ådömda äktenskapsskillnaden emellan förre SkräddareGesällen Swen Cantzoff och dess hustru Ewa Cantzoff, hvilken med SkomakareGesällen Magnell horsbrott begått; och förklarades nu dessa makar frie, ledige och löse ifrån hvarandre , mannen till ingående af annat Giftermål, när och hvarhälst honom sjelf godt synes och ??? råd föreligger, med iakttagande af hvad 12 Cap. 2 § GiftermålsBalken föreskrifver, men hustrun förbjöds att det göra/

To do justice to the document I've translated in a very hard-to-follow style...the Swedish version is worse and makes me thankful I spent part of an otherwise misspent youth studying law...

The Pronouncement
8.12
According to Chapter 16 § 6 of the Church Law was executed the divorce adjudged through the Stockholm Northern Suburb West Chamber court on the 14th last August between former Journeyman Tailor Swen Cantzoff and its wife Ewa Cantzoff, who with Journeyman Shoemaker Magnell has committed adultery; and these spouses were now declared free, available and loose from each other, the man to enter on another Marriage, when and wherever seems good to him and ??? advice is present, observing what in Chapter 12 § 2 of the Marriage Act is prescribed, but the wife was forbidden to do it/

Ingela

Re: Jöns Josefsson - Ingrid Jönsdotter marriage

margelsews — 2013-05-21 23:53:41Z

Bo-
I think I have the correct marriage record now Dec 20, 1817. I have attached the record. The top of the page it says Vigde 1817 which should be the marriage section and the names are correct - Jöns Josefsson - Ingrid Jönsdotter. What is the date at the end of the record - it looks like Vigdeden 3rd September. Is that possibly the bahns? Does it seem like I am correct this time? Is there other information in the record?

Thank you,
Margel

Re: Translation of Swedish word ArkivDigital record

ancestialhunter — 2013-05-21 23:52:35Z

Thank you for the translation. This man was 27 years old at the time of his leaving Sweden with the designation "ynglingen" for North America. Is it age that places him in ynglingen designation or that he does not have a job,trade,or profession?
MJ

Re: Translation of Swedish word ArkivDigital record

isulv — 2013-05-21 23:42:03Z

The word is "ynglingen", the youth/the young man. As you can see some young men are designated "ynglingen" while other men are noted as "drängen" (the farmhand), "torparen" (the crofter), "bondesonen" (the farmer's son) etc.

The young men called "ynglingen" are exactly that, (very) young men who haven't started working yet - this will be their first employment and as they've not yet begun, they can't be called farmhand or shop assistant etc. The young man called farmer's son is from another class of people; his father is a man of property and this young man will eventually become one too.

Ingela

Re: Translation Help with 1825 Divorce Document

mloncaric13 — 2013-05-21 23:28:42Z

And this is the second page of the church divorce document:

Re: Translation of Swedish word ArkivDigital record

isulv — 2013-05-21 23:28:13Z

I suppose you mean that Judy "alludes" to other services? We are several Swedes here, so in order to make yourself understood to the widest possible circle of helpers it's a good idea to use correct English.

Besides ArkivDigital ("AD") and Genline (whether by itself or by way of Ancestry), there's also SVAR, www.svar.ra.se

Also, it would of course have been a good idea for you to give the details Judy asked for. So that as many helpers as possible could help out as fast as possible - not all helpers have AD.

Ingela

Translation Help with 1825 Divorce Document

mloncaric13 — 2013-05-21 23:27:50Z

Hi --

After much searching, I have uncovered the divorce papers of my ancestors, Sven Cantzoff and Eva Ekbom, who were married in 1802 in Solna, Stockholm, and divorced sometime in 1825.

Sven Cantzoff is a family mystery; there is no record of him prior to about 1800 in Stockholm. He gives his birth year as 1764 and 1767, so, clearly, he's in his thirties by the time he seems to begin to exist!

My hope is that, besides learning the facts of their marriage and divorce, these documents will help uncover more information about Sven Cantzoff (I know a bit about his wife, Eva Ekbom).

I am attaching the church record pertaining to the divorce (received from the Archives in Stockholm). The court records document is very lengthy and seems to have much more detailed information -- but I couldn't ask anyone to translate all of that; it is about 20 handwritten pages. It will me and a dictionary, perhaps!

If there is trouble reading the file, please alert me. It is in 2 separate pages; this all I have (the Archive did not send my any link to the originals or reference info.) I have to post each page separately.

And thank you so very much for any help. I am very excited about this piece of the family puzzle and am grateful for all the generous help I have already received.

Thank you --

Meredith

Re: Which Karin Larsdotter is mine?

jabenson43 — 2013-05-21 22:17:48Z

I assume you've looked at the Grangärde marriage records in an attempt to find the marriage of the Karin Larsdotter who was born June 1690. If not, the records for the years 1684 to 1733 are in volume C:2 (along with births and deaths). Given that she was born in 1690, I would not expect her to be married much before 1710 (maybe 1708 to be on the safe side). Marriages after 1733 are in volume C:3.

I'm not at home right now and can't look up HFL AI:3 (thanks for the source info!). Not sure how that volume is organized but with such a wide range of dates - 1704 to 1745 - it seems likely the records are broken down into date ranges (perhaps blocks of 10 years, e.g. 1704-1714, 1715-1724, etc.). Can you narrow down the range of years in which this Karin was married? I see no indication she moved out of the parish so she likely married someone from Grangärde and should be found elsewhere in the same HFL volume. Failing that, I see both AI:2 and AI:4 overlap the years covered in AI:3. Maybe try to find her in one or both those other books... You might need to slog through page-by-page in order to find her but chances are she is in one of those volumes.

Good luck,

Jeff

Re: Translation of Swedish word ArkivDigital record

ancestialhunter — 2013-05-21 21:58:38Z

Interesting that Ipad won't allow use of AID number. I have yet to download ArkivDigital on mine. Perhaps I won't.
You elude to several services which might be used to find the same record, beside Ancestry and ArkivDigital, what would they be.
Thanks
MJ

Re: Which Karin Larsdotter is mine?

jjsmith2045 — 2013-05-21 21:18:20Z

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the compliments. I do try to be very thorough and collect every document that I can.

I did check 1689 records and there's no Karin's that fit. I wish I could find the marriage and death information for the Karin born in June, so I could 100% prove that the one born in June is not my Karin. But the Household Examination before she married doesn't say who she married or where she moved.

Let me know if you see something I'm missing. I'v attached it. It's in Kopparberg, Grangärde, AI:3 1704-1745, p. 155 (my version is Image 163 of 367)

After this record, Karin who was born in Jun 1690 is lost to me.

Re: Translation of Swedish word ArkivDigital record

JOBaouab — 2013-05-21 20:19:06Z

I do have an Arkivdigital app on my iPad, but it doesn't allow us to use the AID number. Also, there are several services which could be used to find the same record.

You most likely have the full source information, including the parish and county, volume, years covered by the volume, page number, etc. it is better to provide that information than to just provide the AID number.

Hopefully you will be helped quickly but if not, I'll look at this record once I'm near my computer.

Judy

Translation of Swedish word ArkivDigital record

ancestialhunter — 2013-05-21 19:59:47Z

v40503.b46 number 11 is a Johan Petter Danielsson, a distant relative of mine. In front of his name is a word I do not understand? is this an occupation? or some other meaning?
Thank you for the assistance
M J

Re: Which Karin Larsdotter is mine?

jabenson43 — 2013-05-21 18:49:30Z

I applaud you for being thorough in your research and for looking at all the evidence with a critical eye. At some point probably everyone runs into this sort of quandry. A lack of conclusive evidence means you have to start playing the odds, weigh all the evidence and then make a best guess.

One thing I would point out is, with these very early records ministers generally recorded *only* the baptism date. I think that is the case with the image you posted. Note the various entries with no value in the day column. I think it is probable those children were all baptised on the same day as nearest entry above with a day written in.

Older household examinations may show either the birth date or the baptism date. Assuming the image you posted is the former (which seems to be more common), that means your Karin was born about seven days before the baptism entry of the first of the Karins (16 March, father Lars Bengtsson) in the baptisms book. Playing those odds I mentioned above, it seems much more likely this is your ancestor. Children in Sweden were supposed to be baptised no more than a week after birth, so that fits. Only under extraordinary circumstances could the baptism have been delayed until 6 May, to match up with the second Karin (or maybe 6 June but I rather think the minister forgot an early May baptism or two and added them in before starting the June entries).

Of course, this analysis depends on some assumptions that may not (all) be true. However, this is the simplest explanation for the apparent facts at hand. One thing that isn't clear to me is whether you looked at 1689 baptisms to see if there is a better match(?). If not, I'd check that out before deciding anything.

One more thing: it would be good in the future to include the complete source information (parish, volume name, page number, etc.) for any images you post so message board helpers can themselves easily look up the same record. That will help us help you more efficently and possibly lead to other insights we wouldn't otherwise be able to make.

Jeff

Which Karin Larsdotter is mine?

jjsmith2045 — 2013-05-21 17:12:12Z

I'm looking for the birth record of my Karin Larsdotter who was married to Matts Mattson.

I have a Household Record for her and Matts, which says she was born on 9 March 1690 in Klenshyttan,Grangärde, Kopparbergs.

The records after this aren't very helpful. She moved to Lindesberg, and there's no death record for 1758 when she died and all the Household records in Lindesberg only say she was born in 1689.

In 1690, there are no Karin's born on 9 Mar, but there are 2 Karin Larsdotter's born in Klenshyttan in 1690. Can anyone help me figure out which is my Karin?

Karin Larsdotter b. 16 Mar 1690 to Lars Bengtsson
Karin Larsdotter b. 6 Jun 1690 to Lars Hansson

I've attached the Household record of my Karin and the birth records of the possible Karin's (they are on the same image)

Re: George Eckstrand b 1815 in Sweden

martin48115 — 2013-05-21 13:56:02Z

Nils Göran Ekstrand was a brother of Lars Magnus Ekstrand. He was born 4 Nov 1826 and emigrated in 1851.

Tjärstad AI:11a (1851-1855) Image 142 / page 129 (AID: v29479.b142.s129, NAD: SE/VALA/00377)

I guess Göran could become George but could 1826 become 1814?

Martin

Re: General Muster Roll Question - Kalmar Regiment

martin48115 — 2013-05-21 13:05:25Z

There are more such rolls in Databaser och digitala arkiv - Militaria - Flottans arkiv - Sjöexpeditioner, skeppsmönsterrullor - Häftade. 1789:1 - 1789:6.

Maybe also Databaser och digitala arkiv - Militaria - Flottans arkiv - Sjöexpeditioner, skeppsmönsterrullor - Bundna. But they seem to be fleet only.

Martin

Re: Where were my Swedish GreatGrandParents?

lena_chrl2 — 2013-05-21 12:22:39Z

Olle Kihlström was my mothers grand grand father. He was a shoemaker and lived in and around Kila.
He was married twice and had 15 children.

Re: Need help with translation of location

Lundpe — 2013-05-21 11:46:17Z

Thanks so much.

Need help translating birth record

jjsmith2045 — 2013-05-21 11:45:23Z

Can someone help me translate the record for Matthis b. 7 May on this page? I do know that he was born in Snöån, Norrbärke, Kopparberg, Sweden.

Re: Need help with translation of location

bohjohan — 2013-05-21 09:46:28Z

Därstädes/derstädes = at that place ("there-placed")

Därsammastädes/dersammastädes = at that same place

// Bo Johansson