Vestfold - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Ingvald Olsen SKORGE from Andebu; ELGESEM in Sandar (Sandefjord); HYNNE

eagless0071 — 2013-05-20 18:21:07Z

Hi,
Here are some information Regarding the siblings of Ingvald…

Ole Hansen born 1819, Sandar, died 27th of October 1894
Ole Hansen with wife and 4 children in 1865 census
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038116003...
Death record:
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 8 (1878-1902), Døde og begravede 1894, side 162. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4274&i...

Dorthea Marie Larsdatter born 1824, Heia, died 9th of September1902
1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&am...
Death record:
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 8 (1878-1902), Døde og begravede 1902, side 168. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4274&i...

Ole and Dorthea Marie’s marriage record, married 3rd of January 1845
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 4 (1829-1856), Ekteviede 1845, side 296-297. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1231&i...

They had 11 children:
1. Hans Kristian, born 16th of April, baptized 12 of May 1845, lived at Skauen. Died 30th of December 1923, unmarried.
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 4 (1829-1856), Fødte og døpte 1845, side 120-121. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1231&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1845, side 82-83. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
Confirmation record 30th fo September 1860
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Konfirmerte 1860, side 263-264. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Konfirmerte 1860, side 310-311.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
1865 census (age is wrong), http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038116003...
1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&am...
Death record:
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. III 1 (1901-1930), Døde og begravede 1924, side 99. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=3523&i...

2. Lovise Olava, born 5th of March baptized 14th of March 1847.
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 4 (1829-1856), Fødte og døpte 1847, side 132-133. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1231&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1847, side 96-97. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
Confirmation record 5th of October 1862
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Konfirmerte 1862, side 273-274. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Konfirmerte 1862, side 326-327. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
1865 census, http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038117005...
Marriage record: married 30th of October 1874 to Johan Andreasen born abt 1842, Sweden (father: Andreas Christiansen)
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 6 (1871-1878), Ekteviede 1874, side 538. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5580&i...

3. Anders Mathias, born 6th of April, baptized 9th of April 1849, died before 1900, sailor, married 9th of August 1878 to Marte Regine Sørensdatter Hvitstein, born 1849.
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 4 (1829-1856), Fødte og døpte 1849, side 146-147. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1231&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1849, side 110-111. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
Confirmation record 5th of June 1864
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Konfirmerte 1864, side 287-288. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Konfirmerte 1864, side 336-337. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
1865 census…? Most likely him in 1865, http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038123002...
Regine, widow, 1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&am...
Marthe Regine, widow, 1910 census, http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036489003...

Anders Mathias and Marthe Regine’s marriage record, 9th of August 1878
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 8 (1878-1902), Ekteviede 1878-1880, side 124. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4274&i...

Children of Anders Mathias and Marthe Regine:
Anders Martin, born 1st of May baptized 9th of May 1880
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 8 (1878-1902), Fødte og døpte 1880-1882, side 10. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4274&i...
1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&am...
Eduart Sofus born 1884, not found baptizm
1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&am...

Rikard, born 13th of June, baptized 10th of July 1887
Vestfold fylke, Sandefjord, Ministerialbok nr. 2 (1880-1894), Fødte og døpte 1887, side 63. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4791&i...
1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&am...
1910 census, http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036489003...

Alf Mathias, born 6th of June 1891, not found baptizm
1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&am...
1910 census, http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036489003...

4. Edvard, born 15th of March baptized 6th of April 1851.
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 4 (1829-1856), Fødte og døpte 1851, side 156-157. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1231&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1851, side 122-123. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
Confirmation record 13th fo October 1866
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Konfirmerte 1866, side 307-308. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Konfirmerte 1866, side 348-349. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...

5. Anne Martine, born 29th of March baptized 17th of April 1853.
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 4 (1829-1856), Fødte og døpte 1853, side 166-167. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1231&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1853, side 136-137. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&am...
Confirmation 4th of October 1868
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Konfirmerte 1868, side 327-328. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...

6. Martin, born 2nd of June baptized 17th of June 1855, kom til Enga under V. Skorge.
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 4 (1829-1856), Fødte og døpte 1855, side 180-181. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1231&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1855, side 152-153. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
1865 census, http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038116003...
Confirmation record 16th of October 1870
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Konfirmerte 1870, side 357-358. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...

7. Mathias, born 5th of January, baptized 24th of January 1858
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Fødte og døpte 1858, side 7-8. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1858, side 174-175. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
1865 census, http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038116003...
Confirmation record 22nd of September 1872
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 6 (1871-1878), Konfirmerte 1872, side 331. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5580&i...
1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&am...

Married to Helle Andrea Martinsen 15th of November 1885
Vestfold fylke, Sandefjord, Ministerialbok nr. 2 (1880-1894), Ekteviede 1885, side 184. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4791&i...
Children of Mathias and Hella Andrea
Anna D., born 1884
Inga E., born 1886
Ludvig M., born 1894
Magnhild, born 13th of February 1900

8. Ole, born 12th of February baptized 2nd of March 1860, kom til Enga. Died 1936
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Fødte og døpte 1860, side 21-22. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1860, side 192-193. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
1865 census, http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038116003...
Confirmation record 4th of October 1874
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 6 (1871-1878), Konfirmerte 1874, side 342. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5580&i...
1900 census, widowed,
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&am...
1910 census, http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036499002...
Child:
Hulda Anette, born 2nd of September 1885, not found baptizm
1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&am...
Dagny Olivia, born 1st of June baptized 8th of July 1888, Sandefjord (mother: Lovise Andersdatter)
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Sandefjord, Ministerialbok nr. 2 (1880-1894), Fødte og døpte 1888, side 72. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4791&i...
Dagny Olsen in 1910, http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036489001...

9. Hella Dorthea, born 5th of June baptized 6th of July 1862, died 8th of August 1863
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Fødte og døpte 1862, side 35-36. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1862, side 212-213. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
Death record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Døde og begravede 1863, side 564-565. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...

10. Johan Fredrik, born 2nd of July baptized 17th of July 1864, died 16th of August 1864
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Fødte og døpte 1864, side 59-60. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1864, side 234-235. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
Death record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Døde og begravede 1865, side 543-544. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...

11. Ingvald, born 3rd of May baptized 21st of May 1866, kom til Burvall.
Baptizm record:
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 5 (1857-1870), Fødte og døpte 1866, side 105-106. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1232&i...
Vestfold fylke, Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. I 3 (1832-1867), Fødte og døpte 1866, side 248-249. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8186&i...
Confirmation record 3rd of October 1880
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 8 (1878-1902), Konfirmerte 1880, side 74. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4274&i...
1900 census, http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&am...

Regards,
Arna

Re: Ingvald Olsen SKORGE from Andebu; ELGESEM in Sandar (Sandefjord); HYNNE

eagless0071 — 2013-05-19 19:55:40Z

Hi,

Ingvald and family in 1900,
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&am...

Olaf born 31st of August baptized 19th of September 1897
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 8 (1878-1902), Fødte og døpte 1897, side 54. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4274&i...
Tønsberg Blad:
25th wedding anniversary 25th of August 1952
Olav Skorge and Karen Møyland

Aslaug born 20th of March baptized 4th of June 1899
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Ministerialbok nr. 8 (1878-1902), Fødte og døpte 1899, side 56. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4274&i...
Aslaug’s confirmation 5th of October 1913
Vestfold fylke, Sandar, Ministerialbok nr. 17 (1907-1917), Konfirmerte 1913, side 73.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=67&idx...

Trygve born 5th of April baptized 1st of June 1903
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. III 1 (1901-1930), Fødte og døpte 1903, side 3. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=3523&i...

Maurits born 25th of October, baptized 11th of December 1904
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. III 1 (1901-1930), Fødte og døpte 1904, side 5. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=3523&i...
Maurits confirmation 4th of May 1919
Vestfold fylke, Sandar, Ministerialbok nr. 18 (1917-1926), Konfirmerte 1919, side 22. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=52543&...

Dagfin’s born 26th of April, baptized 20th of May 1907
Vestfold fylke, Kodal i Andebu, Klokkerbok nr. III 1 (1901-1930), Fødte og døpte 1907, side 9. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=3523&i...
Dagfin’s confirmation 1st of May 1921
Vestfold fylke, Sandar, Ministerialbok nr. 18 (1917-1926), Konfirmerte 1921, side 48. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=52543&...

Dagfin Skorge marries Ester Sofie Nilsen, june 1931

Vestfold fylke, Sandar, Lysningsprotokoll nr. 5 (1919-1931), Lysninger 1931, side 93. http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=4790&i...

In Tønsberg Blad, 18th of July 1962
60 year
Olav Skorge, school inpector, born in Kodal, lives in Stavern

DIS Cemeteries in Norway
ID 1983610
Olav Skorge, burried 12th of July 1969, Berg cemetery, Larvik, square Z; row 00; grave no 7

You could try to contact the church ward in Larvik and ask if they could get you in contact with the lease holder of Olav Skorge’s grave, that would usually be a close relative of the deceased.
E-mail address: Kirkevergen(a)larvik.kirken.no

For the gravesites in Sandefjord
E-mail address: post(a)sandefjord.kirken.no

Regards,
Arna

Re: Hermansen relatives in Sande

Kdeuschle32 — 2013-05-11 16:00:43Z

That is my great grandmother. I am in Chicago, IL.

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

2vikingcats — 2013-05-07 07:20:33Z

Dear Doris, Thanks for your reply! I do need your mail address. My computer has problems, Can you send me a letter by mail, I WILL THEN SEND YOU MORE INFO AND PHOTOS.
Hans Martin Haugen celebrated his 100 year birthday in Sandefjord, he owned a bicycle shop there. I have cousins there, we are in close contact.

We live close to Wisconsin Dells, moved here from Illinois.

I was born in 1930 in Sandefjord.

JEAN HAUGEN CAMPBELL
4331 BARBON DRIVE
WISCONSIN RAPIDS, WI 54494

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

DorisWaggoner — 2013-05-05 02:55:56Z

Hi, Jean,

The male Haugens I know of in Hans Martin Haugen's generation would be Henrik Olaf (my grandfather) b. 1878 and his brothers Hans Torvald b. 1882 and Ole Virik b. 1888, in Sandar/Sandefjord, and Reuben Oscar, b. 1891 in ND after the family immigrated. In their father's generation, I presume their uncles Olaus and Anders Henriksen Haugen would have had sons, who would have been cousins to my grandfather Henrik and his brothers. I know nothing about those cousins, however. They would, to the best of my knowledge, have stayed in Norway. I believe my g grandfather Hans Henriksen Haugen was the only one in the family who came to America (about 1887 or 1888--I can't find his immigration records, as I noted earlier). So it is quite possible that you and I are related. When Hans Henrksen Haugen arrived in the US he and his family took the name Harrison and he shortened Henriksen to Henrik, using it as his middle name. My grandfather changed Henrik to Henry.

Where did Hans Martin Haugen live when he celebrated his 100th birthday? When did you come to America? Directly to WI? I lived in Mikwaukee 1976-1979, then Madison 1979-1990.

Thanks for getting back in touch.

Did I send you my street address the last time I responded to your message? Would you like it so you can send me some copies of your photos and more information?

Doris

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

2vikingcats — 2013-05-05 02:31:24Z

DEAR DORIS! I HAVE PHOTOS AND INFO. May, 2013
I WAS BORN SANDEFJORD, NORWAY. IAM FAMILIAR WITH SANDAR, and
TOWN AND AREA! My grandpa's name is Jorgen Haugen.
DO YOU KNOW OF HANS MARTIN HAUGEN? I HAVE A NEWSPAPER ARTICLE FROM 1981, HE WAS CELEBRATING HIS 100 YEAR BIRTHDAY!

HOPE THIS HELPS!
MY COMPUTER DOES NOT WORK GOOD, SO I HOPE TO HEAR FROM YOU!
from JEAN HAUGEN ,EMAIL IS 2vikingcats@gmail.com

my address is:4331 Barbon Drive, Wisconsin Rapids, WI

Ingvald Olsen SKORGE from Andebu; ELGESEM in Sandar (Sandefjord); HYNNE

joyhart02 — 2013-05-04 23:52:35Z

I am helping a fellow American locate living relatives in Vestfold County.

Her father, Klary/Chlary Ingvaldsen Skorge was born at Elgesem in Sandar on July 2, 1917 to parents Ingvald Olsen (Skorge) and Josefine Rikardsdatter. Chlary was a seaman from about 1935-1942, and eventually settled in New York, where he and his wife raised their 6 children.

Here is Chlary/Klary's 1917 birth/baptismal record, first entry:
Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Sandar, Ministerialbok nr. 16 (1909-1919), Fødte og døpte 1917, side 202.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=66&idx...

Chlary's parents and siblings in the 1910 Andebu, Vestfold census, living at the Skorge vestre farm:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036499002...

Around 1913, the family moved to Sandar. Ingvald (died 1952), Josefine (d. 1956) and their son Mauris/Mauritz (d. 1978) were buried at Orelund (Nybo) Cemetery in Sandefjord.

Ingvald's father was Ole Hansen Skorge (østre), born 1817/1819 at Kottet, Sandar, or Sandeherreds, Vestfold. His mother was Daarte/Dorte Marie Larsdatter Snappen.

The father of Josefine Rikardsdatter (born Hynne) was Rikard Halvorsen.

Ingvald Olsen Skorge (1866-1952) had a least these siblings: Martin, Matias and Ole.

Much appreciated if someone could offer more information about Chlary's siblings, and his father's siblings; or where we can write for vital information concerning Chlary's relatives.

Tusen takk from Minnesota!

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

2vikingcats — 2013-04-13 19:55:34Z

HI Doris - HAPPY TO HEAR FROM YOU! YES, IT IS POSSIBLE WE ARE RELATED! i HAVE GOOD CONTACT WITH MY COUSINS. AND IHAVE IN A BOX, WHEN I UNPACK, A LIST OF MY ANCESTRY BACK TO 1500 THAT MY COUSIN OTTO GAVE ME YEARS AGO. MY COUSIN, KJELL EINAR AND I ARE TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER OUR INFORMATION. kJELL AND OTTO LIVE IN SANDEFJORD.
MY COMPUTER HAS PROBLEMS, IF YOU GIVE ME YOUR ADDRESS I CAN MAIL THINGS TO YOU,
MY ADDRESS: JEAN HAUGEN CAMPBELL
4331 BARBON DRIVE
WISCONSIN RAPIDS, WI.
MY PHONE IS 715-459-4488.
IF YOU ARE EVER IN WISCONSIN, STOP BY!
WE LIVE JUST A LITTLE NORTH OF WISCONSIN DELLS.
ABOUT 2 HOURS NORTH OF MADISIN.

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

DorisWaggoner — 2013-04-12 21:08:57Z

Hi, Jean,

So far as I know, only my g grandfather Hans Henriksen Hauge, his wife and children, out of a family of 6 Hauge brothers and sisters, emigrated. This family came to Richland Co, ND, where they had a 5th child, then about 1891-92 to Wilkin Co MN, where the parents stayed the rest of their lives. She died there in 1930, he in 1935. Their children scattered, only one staying in the area.

My parents visited Sandefjord in 1971 and 1974, taking many pictures. My grandfather, still alive and alert then in his 90s, recognized many of the places.

Interestingly, my g grandfather's farm name was Hauge. He was b. in Hedrum, and probably met his wife there, as one of her parents was from there. She was from Sandar. Haugen sounds like a farm name to me. Is it remotely possible we are related somehow??

Thore, who lives in Sandefjord, sent me off-list some additional info he found on the fire. It was in Apr. 1882, and actually started in my g grandfather's store. Next door was a liquor store, which no doubt was what really fuelled the fire. There was also a stiff wind that night. The fire began about 2 a.m. and the inadequate fire system didn't help matters. Nine buildings were destroyed and 27 families made homeless. My g grandparents' family lived elsewhere in town, so they weren't among them. He sent me a newspaper picture of the devastation. The buildings were rebuilt in stone, and the area was then known as "Stone Square."

You may have heard the stories of that fire, or smaller ones that followed. But more likely you heard about the 1900 fire, which covered a much wider area. After that, the city began to be serious about building in stone and brick, and to create a good fire department.

I would love to see your old photos. Several people sent me copies of the old church, known by various names, which is just outside the 1900 city limits. I can't think offhand what its official name is. My g grandparents were married there, my grandfather and one of his siblings were baptized there, while the other two were baptized in a church in the town itself. The church I mean is the very old one, built in the late 1700s on the site of the medieval church. It has what my grandfather called "barn doors" on three sides of the steeple. His father was part of a men's chorus, and on Easter morning they sang from this steeple, with those doors open. They are very obvious in photos on Wikipedia and in other pictures people sent me. All these pictures are modern, so if you have an old picture, I'd love to see that.

Why don't you send any old pictures you have to me offlist. I'm not sure I know how to handle attachments here, or would know how to capture them to save them if you attach them. I'd be happy to share whatever I have that would be of use to you. We have the slides my parents took in the 1970s in Sandefjord but they haven't been scanned yet and my siblings and I aren't sure where they are among the thousands my father took.

I must still have cousins in Sandefjord, or the general area, but so far as I know all contact was lost. My mother, 97, thinks one of my g grandfather's brothers came but was killed in an accident. She doesn't know his name. I know both the brothers' Norwegian names, but not the 3 sisters' names. They don't show up in the 1875 census, while the brothers do.

Thanks so much for your response!

Doris Waggoner
Seattle
waggonerdoris@gmail.com

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

2vikingcats — 2013-04-12 02:23:36Z

Hi - I have cousins in Norway. Kjell Haugen and Otto Haugen and others.
I recall mention of a fire. My Mom's uncle had a bicycle factory at the time. My relatives were very settled in Sandefjord forever. I was born in Sandefjord in 1930.
My grandpa's name: George Haugen. I have interesting old photos. Hope this helps?
Best Wishes, from
Jean Haugen Campbell of Wisconsin.

Re: Nicoline Amalia Andersen

MarilynBrestrupJacobi — 2013-03-16 18:32:12Z

I am Marilyn (Brestrup) Jacobi whose great grandfather was Haral Brestrup from the Larvik, Norway, area. Nicoline Amalia Andersen was my great great grandmother. Angela, you and I have spoken before. Did you complete the geneology on the Brestrup name? If not, I have it back to 1640.

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

thoremk — 2013-03-16 10:08:57Z

Doris,

I was not aware of that before but actually there is a 1885 census for Sandefjord, but not for Sandar, available in Digitalarkivet, and your family is in it,

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01053...

Not sure how much that means, but there is a different address and occupation than what was noted in 1882 in the church record of Hans Toralf's baptism. In 1882 the address was Nordre gate and Hans Henriksen was said to be "kjøbmand", in 1885 the address was the corner of Kirkegade and Stentorvet and occupation "handelsborger".

Both these addresses are further up town than Hjertnespromenaden by the way. A thing about the old addresses by the way, is that there was a big city fire in 1900 following which parts of the city was rebuild and even in more parts street names were changed. Nordre gade which should have been outside what burned in 1900 still changed name and is known as Sverres gate today. The old Kirkegade was in the region of the city fire I think. A 1881 city map is available also, in which the parts affected by the city fire is indicated.

http://www.lardex.net/pdf/Sandefjord%20sentrum%201881.pdf

The map also explains your question about Sandar Kirke. The green line is the city limit of Sandefjord. As you can see Sandeherred Kirke, as it was known then, is outside. As I mentioned Sandefjord was only the city center. About churches, there is then also a church that was there in the 1880-ies that is no longer there. That is the old Sandefjord church, not sure if it burned down or damaged by the fire, but the one we have today is build right into the 1900's.

About the barn doors, if you send me a mail using my usename here adding the @ and then online.no I can send a closer up picture with main entrance of Sandar kirke in the background without going there for a new one.

And then distinction between "kjøbmand" and "handelsborger". I will say kjøpmann, as in modern Norwegian, is a store owner, or at least the one responsible for running it. Handelsborger could also be that I guess, but it could also be someone doing other sorts of trading.

And then to a thing you didn't ask at all. If I say I grew up at farm called Søndre Virik, does that mean anything to you? According to the old bygdebok of Sandar by Lorens Berg, that was were Regine's father grew up as well. The description in the old bygdebok stops before that, but I will guess my great grandfather bought the farm from Regine's uncle Andreas Thorsen, and I've seen somewhere 1884. That I'd say is also why your grandfathers brother Ole had Virik as a middle name (in the church record at least).

Regards,

Thore

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

DorisWaggoner — 2013-03-16 02:12:15Z

Thanks for the suggestion. I've sent a brief question to them, just asking about the fire. Their site is a nice one, and the English translation seems quite good.

Doris

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

DorisWaggoner — 2013-03-16 02:08:33Z

Thore,

Yes, I have that church record for my grandfather's baptism, and for his three younger siblings as well. I also have a copy of his actual baptismal certificate, because my mother ended up having to get it to prove she is a US citizen--a long complicated story.

There do seem to be several versions of Regine Olsdattar's farm name! I have to keep reminding myself that names were not stable in America then either.

When you gave me the name of the street, that goes by the area of Sandefjord I was trying to describe, I went back to my mother's map with a magnifying glass, and it looks like "Hjertnespa Menaden" which is rather close to what you said. So I do think we are at least talking about the same part of town! If you look at a map, that street goes across the upper point of the triangle I'm referring to.

Thank you also for the reference to the Norwegian Wikipedia article on the Sandar church. It was fascinating, and I will print the pictures to show my mother. I told her about them today on the phone.

"Barn doors" were how my grandfather described them, but you must remember his memory of them was as a child who spent the rest of his childhood on an American farm. So my grandfather's description in his self-taught English would have been "barn doors" even though the Norwegian words might not translate well. To me, they look more like window shutters that might hook open when in use. Does that make sense? But I can certainly tell that men singing from there on an Easter morning would project their voices a long ways, even without microphones. It would have been a lovely sound. Does this custom still happen?

I am confused about one thing you say. This church is IN Sandefjord? But today it is the Sandar church? That is what I don't understand. Can you explain that more completely, please? There is still so much I don't understand.

Thanks so much for all your information. I do finally feel like I am getting somewhere, bit by bit. Now if only some historian of Sandefjord knows if there was that fire!

Regards,
Doris

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

thoremk — 2013-03-15 10:32:21Z

Or maybe it is barn doors. Wide wooden doors.

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

thoremk — 2013-03-15 09:26:39Z

Doris,

The church record for your grandfathers baptism was easily found. Sandar as you suggest and born 4 jan 1878 as you mention, baptised 3 feb 1878. Record say they were still living on Furustad at that time. His father as farmer Hans Henriksen and mother Regine Ottilie Olsdatter.

http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=3018&i...

By the way the farm(s)/place name in Norwegian is Furustad or sometimes also Førstad. And today it is correct saying what used to be Sandar is Sandefjord. They were merged into one in 1968. But I think also before that they were perceived as one. Sandar used to be the rural areas surrounding the city, and Sandefjord little more than the city center.

About the fire, triangular site or the church with barn doors I don't know. But the street name you mention we know as Hjertnespromenaden. And Sandar kirke has doors on 3 sides, but I have never thought of that as barn doors.

http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandar_kirke

Regards,

Thore

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

DorisWaggoner — 2013-03-14 17:48:11Z

That WAS kind of a long post, wasn't it? Full of questions, too. :-) It's just that these questions have been bugging me for years, and the whole story has to do with why this family emigrated. They were prosperous, and then suddenly poverty-striken. It happened to many, of course, and was a major push behind emigration. And I'd like to find out while my mother is still alive.

But you are right. The first question, I think, should be to document/disprove a fire that destroyed that particular triangle of businesses in Sandefjord about that time. Then I can go from there if someone responds.

Thanks for your quick response.
Doris

Re: fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

thoraway — 2013-03-14 16:44:20Z

There is a 'historielag' (a historical society) for Sandar in Sandefjord, Vestfold. Their website is published in Norwegian of course, but there is probably someone in that group who understands English.

You might try contacting them. I wouldn't recommend overwhelming any kind stranger with too many questions at once however.

http://sandarhistorielag.no/

http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/files/word.htm

fire in Sandefjord mid 1880s?

DorisWaggoner — 2013-03-14 15:48:21Z

I have several questions specific to Sandefjord, Vestfold, that I need local historians to help with. I’m afraid the background is a bit long, so please bear with me!

My grandfather, Henrik Olaf Henriksen, emigrated from Oslo 25 Apr 1890 with his mother Regine Olsdatter and 3 younger siblings, last residence Sandefjord. He was born 4 Jan 1878, (he always said in Sandefjord) bp. in nearby Sandar, where his parents were married 27 Oct 1876. Someone on the Norway list found the records of their departure, as I know no Norwegian, and couldn’t find them using Digitalarkives. They all used her farm name of Farrestad, part of why I couldn’t find them.

The father, Hans Henriksen, emigrated two years before. I still haven’t found his emigration records. The church out-migration records in Sandar show the whole family leaving in 1890. But he definitely was not on the feeder ship with the rest of the family, or when they arrived in Boston. He, like she, might have used his farm name, Haugen.

I have all the references for the relevant baptisms, parents’ marriage, and the family’s emigration, if that turns out to be useful. In America, they took the name Harrison, and my grandfather became Henry Olaf Harrison. His father became Hans Henrik Harrison.

My grandfather, who died 11 May 1975, very alert until the end, told his children and his grandchildren why his family had to come to America. This is how I heard it.

His father had a dairy business in a triangular wooden building in central Sandefjord. All the businesses in that building self-insured each other, not being able to afford the insurance rates of the (presumably Oslo) insurance companies. On a windy night, a fire burned down the entire building, in spite of efforts to put it out. Since all the businesses were insuring each other, and all were destroyed, each business was ruined.

This must have happened sometime in the early to mid 1880s, because my g grandfather, Hans Henriksen, afterwards tried a variety of ways to earn a living. One way was to form a co-op with other dairymen and try to sell dairy products, first in Oslo and then in Liverpool. Apparently there was a ship that went regularly from Sandefjord to Liverpool every week or two. He would take cheese and butter, stay until he’d sold it all, and then return. My g grandfather was chosen to go to England because he spoke fluent English—his family could afford to send him to school beyond the free schools. My mother, now 97 and mentally alert herself, remembers his good, British accented English, odd to her childish ears because it had a Norwegian accent! My grandfather remembered having gone on one or more of these trips to Liverpool. However, this enterprise was not in the long run successful, and finally the decision was made that he must go to America, alone, to make enough money to send for his family. We have a studio picture of Regine and Hans, looking rather grim, taken in Sandefjord before he left, and one of their three children taken at the same time. The story always was that he left two years prior to the family, but I have recently found an affidavit signed by my grandfather in 1909 saying that his father came in Nov. 1887. Since the fourth child was b. Feb 1888, the father was leaving a pregnant wife at a time when childbirth was still very dangerous. It’s no wonder the parents looked grim.

In 1971, while my grandfather was still alive, my parents visited Sandefjord. They asked him what to take pictures of, and he suggested trying to find this triangular-shaped area. In addition he asked them to find “the church with barn doors on all four sides of the tower.” They took many pictures, all over town. I was not living in Seattle, where both my parents and grandfather lived, at the time, so wasn’t there when my parents showed Grandpa the slides. Unfortunately, my parent didn’t tape record what he said, which was a shame, as often a picture prompted stories my mother’d never heard before. And neither of my parents thought to go home and immediately write them down. She remembers only a few now, because there were so many in a period of 2-3 hours. This was now almost 30 yrs ago.

Some stories she does remember, however, have to do with “the church with the barn doors.” They found a church matching this description. Grandpa told them that his father was a member of a men’s chorus that on Easter morning would climb the tower of this church, open all the barn doors, and sing a hymn called “Halleluiah.” I’m not sure if Hans Henriksen was a member of this church, remained a member of the Hedrum church where he was baptized, or the Sandar church where he was married and his children were baptized. He did, however, have a beaver top hat he wore when he sang with this chorus. Once this chorus was asked to sing before England’s Queen Victoria, in their top hats (maybe this is when they acquired them, because court dress required them) and their native costumes (I don’t know the Norwegian term for the men’s costumes). There was a fuss because their costumes included breeches and Victoria’s rules required long pants, but finally she gave in! This top hat was so important to Hans that it was one of the few things besides photographs that came to America. My brother now has it in its original hat box.

Can someone identify this church with the barn doors? What is its name? Is it still functioning? What is its history? Does this ceremony still take place on Easter morning? Does this men’s chorus still exist? Do they still wear top hats for any performances? I would love to know anything about the church or the chorus.

The 10,000+ slides my late father took are still around. But they are completely mixed up and out of order, some at my brother’s house, some at mine, and we haven’t found the Norway slides. What we have found is a scrapbook my parents made with things like brochures, postcards, hotel receipts, and maps.

Recently, my mother and I looked at a map of central Sandefjord that was current when they were there in 1971. The triangle that figures in the family story as having burned down in the 1880s is still visible on this map. She thinks there were a variety of shops there when they visited. There are two large triangles on the map; the one of interest is the lower, smaller of the two, close to what she thinks is the inner harbor. Its apex, or point, faces slightly west of north, uphill. The closest street named on this map, crossing the apex, as nearly as I can read the map, is Hjertnespa Menaden. The print is small, in all capital letters, so I may not be reading it properly.

So, my next set of questions has to do with whether anyone knows if there was a fire in the 1880s involving a building or buildings in this triangle? Or in another triangle of businesses, if my grandfather misidentified it on the basis of looking at this map? What can you tell me about this fire, its date, and what it did to the businesses and the owners of the businesses? How did it affect the general economy of the town?

This is not the end of the story, however. A few weeks after we looked at this map, my mother and I were talking again about this story of the fire. I mentioned the story of Hans Henriksen’s dairy store. She said I had a wrong idea of what his business was. It wasn’t a store. Rather, he had a “city farm” within this triangle. Here they had their barns and other farm buildings, where they had their ”cows, pigs, chickens, and so on.” There was some pastureland, though in the summer they went to the seter outside town. They didn’t live at the “city farm,” but elsewhere in Sandefjord, and went there every day to do the farm chores.

This story surprised me very much, as it was so different from what I thought my grandfather had always said. But she seemed very sure, and she is still very smart and alert. I asked my brother what his impressions from Grandpa’s stories were, and he’d never gotten an idea one way or another of what kind of work our g grandfather did, just that the fire destroyed it. I asked my mother where, then, her grandfather sold the excess products of this “city farm,” and she had no idea. She did remember, however, a number of small markets in that part of town, even when they were there. I am very sure my grandfather talked about selling cheese and butter, but it might have been just a small surplus over what they used.

So my next set of questions has to do with how to check this new story. I have the 1875 census for Hans and Regine both but since that was before they were married, and both were living back on the farms where they grew up. They married in 1876. My grandfather was born in 1878, we think in Sandefjord, so if there had been an 1880 census, that could perhaps clear up the mystery. There is a 1900 census, but the family was in America by then.

So how can I go about finding out if there were such things as “city farms” in Sandefjord, and more importantly, if Hans Henriksen had one within this particular triangle of land in the 1880s at the time of the fire, if there was such a fire. Would there have been wooden buildings with businesses, as well as farms, within this triangle of land? Certainly barns and other buildings, hay and straw, could have burned along with other wooden buildings.

Thank you to anybody who has had the patience to read this too-long post! And if anybody can help solve any of these three sets of mysteries, I will be very grateful. So will my mother and brother.

Doris Waggoner
Seattle, Washington, USA

Re: HEM FARM - Sandeherred/Sandefjord

thoremk — 2013-03-14 10:25:14Z

Browsing som old messages... Did you ever find the right Hem? Reading the last reply I thought yes there are two places called Hem in Sandefjord. But, no, just almost...

Hem is to the north of the city, just of the E18 highway. The original farm is probably divided but there seemed to be a division already in the 1875 records also. (59 9'5.58" N, 10'21.37" E)

The one referred to south of the city is just outside the border, and is in what used to be Tjølling, now a part of Larvik.

By the way, I am from Sandefjord myself, and the family history includes Bjørnum and also a neighbouring farm of Hem, and Hem in my wifes case. But I didn't see any connection to your family mentioned.

Re: Jens Hansen & Olea Josefsen , Jens Jensen

vidar_solling1949 — 2013-03-06 16:28:55Z

Hey. my name is Vidar Sølling, and is the grandson of Severin Josephsen in Tønsberg Norway. Our forefathers wrote Josefsen shown after the name, but it was written in both forms back to the family.
Here is our family

Dorothea Josephsen f Eriksen Born 17/05/1878 Died 05/30/1941
Severin Josephsen Born 07/30/1879 Died 25/12/1956

Robert Sølling. Born 01/18/1913 Died 11/04/2001
Sonja Kaspara Sølling f Jensen Born 10/10/1914 Died 13/10/2007

children
Trond Sølling Born 04.12.1944 Living
Hilde Kristine Sølling Gundersen f Solling Born 02.04.1948 Living

Bjorn Sølling Josephsen Born 03/29/1910 Died 30/11/1966
Gerd Josephsen f Parnemann Born 08/06/1919 Died 17/05/2008

children
Bjørn Tore Josephsen Born 15.02.1949 Living
Rune Parnemann Josephsen Born 09.04 1952 Lives

Knut Sølling Born 15/05/1916 Died 25/10/1995
Life Sølling f Engebretsen Born 06/24/1916 Died 12/11/1988

children
Steinar Sølling Born 26.04.1949 Living
Vidar Solling Børn 26.04.1949 Living

Re: Family in Norway

1928Model — 2013-02-28 15:08:04Z

Many thanks!

Re: Family in Norway

BrianGaber — 2013-02-28 06:37:22Z

Hi Kathy,

I passed your email on directly to Liv.

Brian

Re: Family in Norway

1928Model — 2013-02-27 20:40:11Z

Brian, I sent a message to her but just in case it doesn't get through: My email address is katerose1747@hotmail.com

You are welcome to use this address also. The family here in the States is ready and waiting to hear from our relative in Norway! Many thanks, Kathy

Re: Family in Norway

BrianGaber — 2013-02-27 15:40:25Z

Your cousins in Norway would like to get in touch with you.....

You can send a message here:

http://lofsdal.net/suggest.php

Or message me directly and I can forward them your email address if you give it to me.

Family in Norway

BrianGaber — 2013-02-26 10:44:06Z

Hi Kathy,

My post on the Vestfold board was answered by relatives of yours in Norway! I will have the family contact you via tzhis message board. Liv Ofsdal from Holmestrand contacted me. Her husband's great-grandmother was Karen Sofie Nilsdatter, the sister of Nils Gustav Nilsen. She has a lot of information about the family.

You can see her website here:

http://lofsdal.net/getperson.php?personID=I11374&tree=sl...

Brian

Re: Death of Gunvor?

1928Model — 2013-02-17 14:51:43Z

You certainly have been busy and I sure do appreciate all the help. So have I......If Gunvor Marie Henricksen is Hans Mathias Nielsen's daughter, she had at least 2 children. Arne Fridof Henriksen and Karin Marie Henriksen. I found quite late last night so I need to go back and study their records again to make sure I read them correctly. I found a baptism record for Arne (born 20 Oct 1929) and a marriage record for Karin Marie Henriksen to Erik Georg (Noss?) in 1955. She was born 7 Sep 1930. These 2 children could still be alive. So back to researching, have a good day. Kathy

Death of Gunvor?

BrianGaber — 2013-02-16 11:51:40Z

Hans Mathias Nilsen left two daughters in Norway.

Gunvor Marie Nilsen Guldhaug, born 8 May 1904

I see a cemetery record for:

Gunvor Marie Henriksen, born 8 May 1904
Died 25 Jan 1973
Buried in Horten cemetery, Horten, Vestfold

The grave has already been removed, but it appears she was married to Sigurd Henriksen, born 15 Jul 1898 - died 8 May 1892.

a possibility.....

Marriage of Niels Gabriel Nielsen

BrianGaber — 2013-02-16 11:16:40Z

#15
Married 26 Jun 1841

Niels Gabriel Nielsen Skougen, 25 1/2 yrs old, born in Botne
son of Niels Olsen

Christine Elisabeth Johansdatter Hole, 29 1/2 yrs old
born in Botne, daughter of Johan Olsen

Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Nøtterøy, Ministerialbok nr. I 5 (1839-1852), Ekteviede 1841, side 536-537.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1256&i...

Birth of Edvard

BrianGaber — 2013-02-16 11:06:45Z

#21
Born 19 May 1841
Niels Edvard
Father: Niels Gabriel Nielsen
Mother: Christine Elisabeth Johansdatter
Residence: Skougen, Nøtterøy, Vestfold

Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Nøtterøy, Ministerialbok nr. I 5 (1839-1852), Fødte og døpte 1841, side 58-59.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1256&i...

Re: Possible daughter

1928Model — 2013-02-14 16:31:26Z

I found this family on the 1870 Manistee, MI, 1880 Ludington, MI, 1890 census does not exist, 1900 Duluth MN, 1905 Duluth MN, 1910 Duluth, MN. Then Marcella died in 1913. I believe this family was in St. Paul, MN in 1895 but have not found them yet (and not looking because of the Nelson family, LOL) I also know that the family was in Ludington in Jan 1890 and the daughter, Marcella, married Napoleon Prince on the 11th of that month!

George was born in Ludington, MI.

Re: Possible daughter

BrianGaber — 2013-02-14 15:49:26Z

No, not related. I was just curious. Which census records do you find this family in?

When and where was your George Dion born?

Re: Possible daughter

1928Model — 2013-02-14 15:25:34Z

Brian, Paquet is her maiden name. I had contacted a Priest in Canada years about about this Navalik and he said that the surname LaValley was often a dit name with Paquet. He believed that Navalik was an bad pronunciation for Lavalley dit Paquet. I have never seen Marcella's maiden name as only Paquet and I have since located what I feel are her parents in Canada. Is she related to someone in your family?

Re: Possible daughter

BrianGaber — 2013-02-14 15:15:57Z

A question.... you say that Cleophas Dion married Marcella Paquet, but the marriage record shows the last name Navallik. Which is her maiden name?

Re: Possible daughter

1928Model — 2013-02-13 22:42:56Z

Yes, I was born in Duluth and have lived here all my 65 years! I am believe I am attached to Lake Superior. I have never been happier than when near the big lake! My dearest friend lives in Maple Wisconsin and I love to visit her and once long ago we toured a bit in Washburn County. Beautiful country over there!

You certainly have seen a few changes in Germany since 1974. I have only been to Ireland and that was almost 20 years ago. Oh yes and I have been to Canada 3 times. Every time I think of one trip to Canada I think of all the handwritten letters that went back and forth - I attended a family gathering of one of my lines! Computers can be so wonderful......

I have had house full of company today and will be busy being out and about with a sis. Please could we keep in touch so if I have questions, I could contact you. It would be mostly about the Norwegian language. I found a Norwegian-English dictionary of mostly genealogy terms and hopefully that will help. My friends will tell you I can be very independent about my research.

About my Peter/Cleophas Dion. He was in Michigan in 1869 for sure because he married my great grandmother, Marcella Paquet that year. The civil marriage has no parents listed and I have not found the religious (Catholic) record. The church they would most likely have married does not have any records for that time period and I have contacted many surrounding churches to no avail. I do have baptisms for all of their children from both Manistee and Ludington. Also census records for every year that one exists. Nothing says more about place of birth other than Canada. I cannot connect any other Dion's in Michigan from the time period to Peter. Don't know where he died as he went up to Soudan, MN in 1903 and was never heard from again. I did find a marriage record for him in another state but no details there either. His first wife was not dead at the time of that marriage. Now you know about as much as I do about him. His son Solomon/George is my grandfather. Nothing on his records either. Peter was born sometime about 1840. He was always associated with the lumbering industry and that is the reason he moved from Michigan to St. Paul, MN to Duluth. Ask questions if you have any and I will be glad to answer them best I can. Take care.

Possible daughter

BrianGaber — 2013-02-13 20:25:50Z

Karl Martin Nilsen officially changed his last name to "Guldhaug" at some point. This could be his daughter, born at Guldhaug in Botne. Her birth record is not available online, but here is info from her marriage record and her grave:

#7
Married 4 Jul 1857

Irene Marie Guldhaug, born 10 Mar 1938 in Botne
daughter of (deceased) whale hunter Karl Guldhaug

Arne Lars Øverby, born 24 Nov 1937

Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Botne, Lysningsprotokoll nr. 1 (1919-1965), Lysninger 1957, side 76.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5681&i...

Grave

Irene M. Øverbye ne Guldhaug and husband Arne M. Øverbye

http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/bilde.php?id=3614760
(double click on the link)

Marrige - Karl Martin Nilsen

BrianGaber — 2013-02-13 16:45:24Z

#1
Married 1 Apr 1931 in Botne

Karl Martin Nilsen, born 24 Feb 1906 at Gullhaug
son of Hans Matias Nilsen

Karoline Josefine Borgersen, born 13 Feb 1896 at Hvidsten
daughter of Hans Anton Borgeren

Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Botne i Botne, Klokkerbok nr. I 5 (1916-1934), Ekteviede 1931-1932, side 122.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1285&i...

This link will show you where Gullhaug is in Norway. You can zoom in and out and click between "Kart" and "Flyfoto".

Message posted

BrianGaber — 2013-02-13 16:15:47Z

I posted a message on the Norwegian board for Holmestrand, Vestfold. This is the region Botne is in.

Here are the confirmation records:

#7
Gunvor Marie Nilsen

Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Botne i Botne, Klokkerbok nr. I 5 (1916-1934), Konfirmerte 1918, side 78.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1285&i...

No new info, but interesting that she is using "Nilsen" as a last name at the time.

#5
Karl Martin Nilsen

Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Botne i Botne, Klokkerbok nr. I 5 (1916-1934), Konfirmerte 1920, side 80.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1285&i...

.... also using Nilsen, but he lated changed it to "Guldhaug".

1910 Census

BrianGaber — 2013-02-13 15:44:42Z

I took a look at the 1910 census. I know from experience that about 25% - 35% of the dates are wrong just because they were "misread" by the computer. The birth date for Mathias says 1.2.1882, but probably is actually 1.2.1883.

It does say Hans Mathias Gustavsen instead of Hans Mathias Nilsen. This appears confusing at first, but remember his father was Niels Gustav Nielsen. Maybe his father decided to gto by his middle name (Gustav) instead of his first name (Niels), and Hans Mathias took Gustavsen instead if Nielsen. I feel certain it is the same person, but we can only spectulate the reason for the name change.

Re: 1910 Census

BrianGaber — 2013-02-13 15:38:21Z

I have learned a lot by helping others, and also met many nice people by doing so.

I see you are from Duluth! I have been living in Germany since 1974 but am very familiar with Duluth. I also grew up on the shores of Lake Superior, in Washburn, Wisconsin.

It is not easy finding living descendants in Norway. The best was is a post on a Norwegian forum. I can give it a try, but it is only a slim chance.

What exact info do you have on your Dion line? I'm sure you have already covered the available sources, but I could take a look.

Brian

Re: 1910 Census

1928Model — 2013-02-13 14:16:10Z

Brian, Phew! You not only resolved this Mathias/Martin problem for me and I am most thankful for that, but you taught me a lesson: Always read the whole document before I jump to conclusions. Shame on me, I know better, I have been researching (in the US and Canada) for over 30 years. Am I surprised about the 2 marriages? Not really. Sad to think that he abandoned his family in Norway.... I did not know Mathias/Martin but only his US family. He died long before I married in the Nelson's. So onward and upward, getting all this information together for the family. Would it be wrong of me to try to find his Norway family and let them know of his US family?

About Dions in Canada. My great grandfather, Peter/Cleophas Dion was born there and that is all I know. I have never been able to find out his parents or siblings names. Another brick wall to tackle. There are 5 Peter/Cleophas Dion's in Canada who would be age appropriate but again, there are no emmigration, immigration records that have been kept. We refer to this very frustrating situation as not being able to make the 'Canadian Connection'! On some of my other Canadian lines I got very lucky and knew where in Canada they came from and have traced them back to their "old country".

I am so grateful to you for all your patience and hope that I may ask more questions about dealing with Norwegian records. You are a very good teacher - no scolding! LOL Feel free to ask me questions too! I believe that no matter how long a person has been researching there is always something to learn. Thank you again.

Re: 1910 Census

rose860 — 2013-02-13 13:50:59Z

Hi Kathy
I have a Norwegian relative (great grandfather) that did this also. He left Norway after his first wife died, cam back five years later, remarried and went back to Wisconsin and then brought his kids over, with the exception of my grandmother who came prior to WWI and did not live very close. My great grandfather was from Gjerpen, Telemark and his wife was from Brunlanes in Vestfold. Have another side from Vestfold as well. Keep the faith, I have been doing this for almost 30 years and feel your pain. :-) Off topic a little I see you have Dion's in Quebec, me too, maybe we can compare Quebec names sometime!

Re: 1910 Census

BrianGaber — 2013-02-13 05:23:47Z

Go back to the 1910 census.....

http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01036495001...

If you click on the "P.Nr.", you get additional information about that person. Click "001" for Hans:

On the bottom right it says " Antatt oppholdssted: Amerika "

This means his "assumed residence" is America, and he was not in Norway in 1910.

Re: 1910 Census

1928Model — 2013-02-12 18:27:18Z

I won't wait too long! How could Hans Mathias be back in Norway on the 1910 census if he left Norway in 1905? The only way is he came back to Norway and then before 1918 (when the marriage of Augusta Klinski and he took place) went back to the US! I am trying everything I can with US records and not having much luck. Record keeping for people emigrating from the US were not strictly kept back then and he would not have been a US citizen yet so a passport would not have been required. This is getting very, very interesting. I am personally enjoying this search. The only alternative to this whole thing is that somehow Hans Mathias Nielsen is not Hans Martin Nelson! Yikes, I better quite thinking too hard! Thank you again.

Re: 1910 Census

BrianGaber — 2013-02-12 17:33:57Z

If you do have any questions, feel free to ask. If possible, try not to wait too long..... it's easier to help when things are still fresh in my mind.

Re: 1910 Census

BrianGaber — 2013-02-12 17:31:11Z

Karoline Annette Hansdatter was listed as a widow shen she married Hans Mathias Nielsen on 20 Feb 1904.

The birth record of her daughter confirms this.

#3 (Bottom of page)
Born 6 Mar 1894
Bergliot Emilie
Father: Edvardt Hansen
Mother: Karoline Annette Hansdatter
Residence: Guldhaug

Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Botne i Botne, Ministerialbok nr. I 7 (1878-1910), Fødte og døpte 1894, side 44.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=3947&i...

Re: 1910 Census

BrianGaber — 2013-02-12 17:18:10Z

If you look at the birth record for Gunvor (#10)

Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Botne i Botne, Ministerialbok nr. I 7 (1878-1910), Fødte og døpte 1904, side 89.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=3947&i...

you will notice that in the name "Hans Mathias Nielsen", his middle name "Mathias" is underlined. The underlined middle name means that this is the nme he used. So, even though his first name was Hans, he went by Mathias.

Re: Birth of Nils G. Nilsen (1815)

1928Model — 2013-02-12 13:49:19Z

Now I am more confused than ever. I found Karoline Hansdatter on the 1910 census with the two children she had with Nils Mathias Nielsen, another daughter AND living with Nils Matias Gustavson. I have a lot of work to do to get this straightened out! Thirty years of research has taught me - answer one question and two more will show up! You have been so helpful with all of this. I shall have to contact the person that maintains the site that has the information about Nils Mathias Nielsen on it. Many many thanks for all your help and if there is something I can do for you in Minnesota, especially in the northern part, let me know. I would like to be able to contact you again if I have some very specific questions! Thank you.

Re: Birth of Nils G. Nilsen (1815)

BrianGaber — 2013-02-12 12:36:54Z

Hi Kathy,

I can't make it out word for word, but it says that on the 23rd of May (1928?, 1938?) he legally changed his last name to "Guldhaug", which is the name of the farm where he was born.

Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Botne i Botne, Ministerialbok nr. I 7 (1878-1910), Fødte og døpte 1906, side 98.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=3947&i...

The name change is only noted in the "Ministerialbok". The "Klokkerbok" was not amended:

Kildeinformasjon: Vestfold fylke, Botne i Botne, Klokkerbok nr. I 4 (1899-1915), Fødte og døpte 1906, side 29.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5585&i...

Re: Birth of Nils G. Nilsen (1815)

1928Model — 2013-02-12 03:33:03Z

Brian, again thank you for taking to find the family of Hans Mathias Nielsen. I have been looking on the web for anyone searching that family and came across a site maintained by Liv Ofsdal. On that site I found a marriage for Hans Mathias Nielsen to Karoline Anette Hansdatter. Further research in the Vestfold county records (Botne specifically) I did find that marriage and it does prove that he did indeed marry her (a much older woman) and had 2 children. Talk about surprised! If you read Norwegian, could you read the baptism of the last child and tell me what is said. He, Karl Martin, was born 24 Feb 1906 and baptized 26 Jun 1904 in the Botne church. I find this very interesting as Hans Mathias left Norway in June 1905. I also need advice about finding descendants of this marriage. I am not sure how to give you the specific location of the record but here goes: Botne church records, births and baptisms, 1906, page 98, baptism number 5. I would really like to clear this matter so I have all the information about this first family when I tell Hans Mathias second family. Many thanks for your time and patience in this situation. Kathy Nelon