Laurence Joseph KELLY was my Great Grandfather.

He died on the 7th September 1908 in an accident in his job as a tram driver of a horse drawn tram. The story of his death was in The Advertiser on the 8th (see
http://webcat.wtcc.sa.gov.au/hipres/images/lhimages/218-1.pd...). In the piece his name is misspelt as Lawence and his age is given as 39 - the same as mentioned on his grave site. His death certificate states he was 37 and the LDS familysearch site mentions he was born in 1872 (no precise date) which would make him 36.

He married Agnes GALE on 28th September 1895 at St Patrick's Church Adelaide.

My problem is that according to his death certificate he was born in Bowden SA but there is no record of his birth in the State Library index of births. It seems his birth was not registered. He seems to have had a father called Patrick as mentioned in the marriage index of the SA State Library.

He had no daughters. His 6 sons were

Harry KELLY b. 16 Dec 1895, d. 3 Aug 1982
Lawrence Patrick KELLY b. 24 July 1898, d. 19 Oct. 1951
Owen James KELLY b. 28 June 1900, d. 23 Oct. 1968
Cyril Augustine KELLY b. 29 Aug 1902, d. 7 July 1961
James John KELLY b. 7 Feb 1906, d. 8. Dec 1969 and
Phillp Gordon KELLY b. 29 July 1907 d. 29 Dec. 1979.

Is there any way of moving forward given his birth does not seem to have been registered. I was hoping to discover how the Kellys came to Australia.

A little info on Laurence KELLY's wife, Agnes.

Agnes GALE b. 29. August 1877 d. 28 October 1908.

Father: William GALE b. 13 January 1851 d. November 3 1921.

Mother: Elizabeth Ann CHOAT b. 10 November 1849 d. 27 December 1940.

William GALES parents:
William GALE and Isabella Mary Ann MATTHEW

Elizabeth Ann CHOAT parents:
Henry CHOAT and Caroline TURNER

Hi,
Does his marriage certificate mention where he was born??

Death cert's are usually the most unreliable.
There is a Patrick KELLY marrying in 1869 father listed as Laurence???

I don't know much about what is on SA BDM certs,,,but maybe his birth date/place would be listed on a sons birth cert??

Kellie

Hi

Was this meant to be the registration for Lawrence???? Quite possibly an error.

South Australian Births 1842-1906 (c) SAGHS
Surname: KELLY
Given Names: Landers
Date: 1872-01-05
Sex: M
Father: Patrick KELLY
Mother: Sarah SLATTERY
Birth Place/Residence: Bowden
District Code: Ade
Book: 104
Page: 198

Sarah nee SLATTERY had two KEOUGH children at Bowden/Brompton, and two KELLY children at Bowden.

PARENTS marriage?
South Australian Marriages, Registrations 1842-1916
Groom: Patrick KELLY
Bride: Sarah KEOUGH
Date: 1869-10-25
Groom Age: 26
Status: S
Groom's Father: Laurence KELLY
Bride Age: 34
Status: W
Bride's Father: Thomas SLATTERY
Place: St Laurence Church North Adelaide
District: Ade
Book/Page: 81/161

FATHER’S death?
South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
Patrick KELLY
Date: 1878-06-09
Age: 35y
Status: N
Relative: (not recorded)
Residence: Carrondown
Death Place: Carrondown
District Code: Hin =Hindmarsh near bowden
Book: 88 / Page: 196

MOTHER”S death?
South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
Sarah KELLY
Date: 1887-08-08
Age: 44y
Status: W
Relative: Patrick KELLY (DH)
Residence: Hindmarsh
Death Place: Hindmarsh
District Code: Ade
Book: 165 / Page: 242

Rhonda

I haven't got Laurence KELLY's marriage certificate. It may be worth the $40 dollars to order it. I do have the birth certificate of one of his sons, my grandfather Cyril Augustine KELLY. No info or clue to the birth details of Laurence on it.

I have emailed Archives Office of the Adelaide Diocese of the Catholic Church asking them if they have any useful details. The archiving officer is presently on holidays and I wait for a reply on her return.

I have heard that Irish Catholics often did not register births in the belief that government authorities were English authorities not deserving any respect.

Thanks Rhonda. That will be useful to investigate. Laurence Joseph KELLY's second child is Lawrence Patrick KELLY, with with Law spelling instead of the Lau spelling of his own name. There could be a mix up in spelling.

Peter

Hi Peter

The names Laurence and Lawrence were often confused. Have noticed though Lawrence was recorded six times out of seven on the cds for the children's birth records. There was another son born 1904!

Harry
Father: Laurence KELLY
Mother: Agnes GALE

Lawrence Patrick
Father: Lawrence KELLY
Mother: Agnes GALE

Owen James
Father: Lawrence Joseph KELLY
Mother: Agnes GALE

Cyril Augustine
Father: Lawrence Joseph KELLY
Mother: Agnes GALE


South Australian Births 1842-1906 (c) SAGHS
Frederick William KELLY
Date: 1904-06-08
Father: Lawrence KELLY
Mother: Agnes GALE
Birth Place/Residence: New Thebarton
District Code: Hin
Book: 731
Page: 123


James John
Father: Lawrence Joseph KELLY
Mother: Agnes GALE

Phillip Gordon
Father: Lawrence Joseph KELLY
Mother: Agnes GALE


Rhonda

Thank you for that extra child. Very interesting.

Peter

Looks like Frederick William KELLY died. A funeral notice appeared in the advertiser 28 Dec 1904. Strangely there is no death record in the BDM index.

Laurence KELLY had a sister called Mary married to a George Day who placed memorial notices for the deaths for Laurence and Agnes who also died just weeks latter. Laurence was a member of the Adelaide Lodge of Foresters whatever that was.

All this from the NLA digitalised newspaper site at http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home

Hi

A sister Mary confirms the parents were Patrick KELLY and Sarah formerly KEOUGH nee SLATTERY, so "Landers" was definitely your Laurence. The KELLY/KEOUGH marriage and deaths sent earlier were his parents.

These are the records related to this family.

SIBLING Mary

South Australian Births 1842-1906 (c) SAGHS
Mary KELLY
Date: 1873-12-03
Father: Patrick KELLY
Mother: Sarah SLATTERY
Birth Place/Residence: Bowden
District Code: Hin
Book: 129 / Page: 348

South Australian Marriages, Registrations 1842-1916
Groom: George DAY
Bride: Mary Alice Sarah KELLY
Date: 1896-02-15
Groom Age: 21
Status: S
Groom's Father: John DAY
Bride Age: 22
Status: S
Bride's Father: Patrick KELLY
Place: Res of Archbishop Adelaide
District: Ade
Book/Page: 186/576


KEOUGH marriage
South Australian Marriages, Registrations 1842-1916
Groom: John KEOGH
Bride: Sarah SLATTERY
Date: 1861-04-21
Groom Age: 26
Status: N
Groom's Father: John KEOGH
Bride Age: 23
Status: S
Bride's Father: Thomas SLATTERY
Place: St Patrick Adelaide
District: Ade
Book/Page: 46/303

South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
John KEOGH
Date: 1867-03-02
Age: 30y
Status: N
Relative: (not recorded)
Residence: Bowden
Death Place: Bowden
District Code: Ade
Book: 26 / Page: 327


South Australian Births 1842-1906 (c) SAGHS
May Ann KEOGH
Date: 1863-06-21
Father: John KEOGH
Mother: Sarah SLATTERY
Birth Place/Residence: Bowden
District Code: Ade
Book: 27 / Page: 310
South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
Mary KEOGH
Date: 1863-11-14
Age: 5m
Status: C
Relative: John KEOGH (F)
Residence: Bowden
Death Place: Bowden
District Code: Ade
Book: 15 / Page: 234

John KEOUGH
Date: 1867-04-27
Father: John KEOUGH
Mother: Sarah SLATTERLY
Birth Place/Residence: Brompton
District Code: Ade
Book: 52 / Page: 296


Rhonda