wow thanks so much for the info - he wasnt very tall was he !!
im now piecing things together - i think the later info on the john may be a differnt john as he would have been 86 years old by then - he was from Bolton , just outside mnahcester so the later bit doesnt seem to fit to him buy it MAY be one of the other johns as I did have another relative who dies in Ballarat so both i am interested in them -

when are the census taken in Austrailia ? i need to know how i can find him after he landed in port Philip - incidently WHY would they travel buy ship in the same country how come he didnt go accross land ?

most of the descendants seemed to do a little bit better in life they were doctors/magistrates/owners of land/ seemed he did go a little bit astray -
All this info is excellent and i much appreciate it -
how did a convict managed to have a tatoo of a mermaid done ? maybe they did it themselves in those days

Andrea