Rains - Family History & Genealogy Message Board

Re: Nelda Favor on Woodson connection

karengeorge051950 — 2013-05-18 00:05:29Z

Nelda, my great grandfather was George Edward Woodson, son of Otis Calvin and Mattie. Any information you can give me re: the Woodsons would be greatly appreciated. I've been working on ancestry for about a year now, and can use all the help I can get! Will be happy to pay for copies of anything I can get!
Thank you,
Karen George

Re: Ragland's from Macon, TN to Dallas/Kaufman TX by 1880

Jacquelinelopez19 — 2013-03-23 21:27:36Z

Thank you! You have a lot of information. I am getting started and am familiar with some names. Also, there are pictures posted on ancestry of Kate and her children, and some grandchildren. Are you related to me? Thank you again for the information. If there is anything I can share about the family let me know, I would be glad to help.

Jacqueline White Lopez

Re: Ragland's from Macon, TN to Dallas/Kaufman TX by 1880

PaSain — 2013-03-23 12:30:30Z

James Gilbert married Margaret A Harrell 1858 Anderson Co TX.

E. L. Gage born MS ? 1849-1852 married "Mandy" Gilbert 27 Mar 1878 Palestine, Anderson Co TX

1870 Houston county TX
Elonzo Gauge/Gage 19 MS married in May 1870
Mary Guage 28 MS

1880 Pct 6, Anderson, TX
L. E. Gage 28 MS said fthr b. TN mthr b. GA
Amanda Gage 18 TX
Jams Gage 7mos
Margaret Gilbert 40 AR listed as other
Eliza Gilbert 14 TX listed as other
Sallie Gilbert 8 TX listed as other

John L. Gage 44 AL Dec 1835 fthr TN mother GA married 14 Nov 1861 Anderson Co; son of Elbert b. TN 1815 and Edna b. GA 1816
Phebe C. NIX Gage 40 KY VA KY
John R. Gage 17 TX
Martin G. Gage 15
Emma F. Gage 13
Mary E. Gage 9
George E. Gage 3

1. James Oscar Gage born Palestine TX 26 Oct 1879 first married an Edna 1900 then Daisy Littrell in Rockwall Co 1908

2. Mary L Gage b. abt 1881 married Otis L Tadlock abt 1896 he was born VA abt 1877 he died in Marietta, Cass Co TX 25 Aug 1949.

4. Sarah Katherine Gage Sept 1885

5. Carrie Belle Gage Feb 1890 married Luther Brown Lasiter/Lassiter 21 Jul 1907 Rockwall Co. Luther died in LaVilla, Hidalgo Co TX 01 Nov 1953 where he and Carrie lived in 1940. Carrie died 12 Jan 1970 in Weslaco, Hidalgo Co death certificate says born 13 Feb 1885 Collin Co to unknown parents per Beulah Lookingbill.

6. John Allen Gage 09 Oct 1892 married Bertha Mae Hasty after 1910 before 1920 both died in Gilmer, Upshur Co lived with J O and Daisy Gage 1910 census.

7. Joseph Wesley Gage 28 Feb 1895/1896 lived with brother James 1910 census registere WW I draft Rockwall Co 1917 farming for J J Cannaday in Fate.

8. Charley Gage 05 Jan 1898 TX unknown location in 1920 shows up in Comanche Co OK 1930 married to Sarah Ellen b. TX 1906 and children b. OK Mary Ruth 1926, John L 1930 then in Pauls Valley, Garvin Co in 1940, dtr Etta 1933 dtr Louise 1938.
Charlie Gage registered WW I draft in Collin County 1918 listed Jim Gage as nearest relative day laborer for S C Daniel who I guess could have been bro in law Charles S Daniels. Charles "Gog" age 11 and Lilly M "Gog" age 9 living with Charles and Kate Daniels 1910 in Collin County.

According to Amanda/Mandy Gilbert Gage there were 10 children 8 living as of 1900. Most of these children were found in JP 7, Collin Co 1910 census.

1940 Fort Worth, TX
Head Joseph W Gage 45 Texas widowed
Daughter Lorse Gage 18 Texas
Son J C Gage 16 Texas
Daughter Bonnie Ruth Gage 31 Jan 1926 Handley, Tarrant Texas father Joseph Wesley mother Ruby Leatherman amended/delayed birth record filed 21 Feb 1962 by mother.

Here is original record:
Name: Bonnie Ruth Gage
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 31 Jan 1926
Event Place: Tarrant, Texas
Gender: Female
Father's Name: Joseph Wesley Gage
Mother's Name: Ruby Ragland
Certificate Number:

1930 Pct 1, Tarrant TX
Head Wesley Gage 35 Texas
Wife Ruby Gage F 33 Texas
Son Bill Gage M 12 Texas
Son Jack Gage M 10 Texas
Dtr Sue Gage F 8 Texas
Dtr Mary Gage F 4 Texas

Re: Ragland's from Macon, TN to Dallas/Kaufman TX by 1880

Jacquelinelopez19 — 2013-03-22 21:57:33Z

I am a great, great granddaughter of Alonso Gage and Amanda Gilbert. My great grandmother is Kate Gage Daniel. I would like to know where Alonso and Amanda are buried and the cause of death if possible. I would welcome any other information that maybe out there about this family and its members. I would be glad to share the information that I have.

Sincerely,
Jacqueline

Re: Gage's from MS to rains co TX by 1880

Jacquelinelopez19 — 2013-02-25 02:55:28Z

I am the great great granddaughter of Alonso Gage, great granddaughter of Katie Gage Daniel, granddaughter of Mary Leona Daniel Stewart. I was reading that someone thought that Electa C. was Kate, I don't believe that is correct. I could give information on Kate's line if that would help. Sarah Katherine Gage Daniel aka "Kate". Died abt 1960,buried in Dallas county, Dallas, TX.

Re: Gage's from MS to rains co TX by 1880

Jacquelinelopez19 — 2013-02-23 18:36:34Z

Sarah Katherine Gage Daniel married Charles Sterling Daniel. They had 5 children, Tommy, Mary Leona, James and twins Claude and Claudia-aka Sissy. They lived near the Millwood area of Collin county, Texas. Charles Daniel died in 1938 and is buried in the Mt Zion cemetary rockwall county, Texas. The grave is not marked. Next to him is a grave of an infant unk. And his son James Daniel is buried next to him also. The graves are to the left of the entrance under a large tree on the east side of it. Kate Daniel is buried in Dallas, Texas off of Buckner blvd and int. 30. She is buried in the same section/plots with her daughter Sissy and her husband Howard Bolton. Kate passed away abt 1960 of a heart attack. Her daughter Mary Leona married James Albert Stewart July 20, 1927 in fate, Texas. They had 5 children. First child was a son that was still born, James Orville 1930,B. Maxine 1933, Reba 1940 and Claudia Joyce 1943. Leona and Albert lived in the Community area all their lives. Moved to Nevada in 1962 til their deaths in 1976. Leona passed 2/12/76' 66 yrs old, and Albert, 79 yrs. old, exactly six weeks later to the day 3/76. Royse City funeral home was in charge of the funerals. She died of a heart attack and he mourned himself to death. They are buried in the Nevada cemetary on the west side along with other family members.

Re: Loking for family members

chambers_daniel570 — 2013-02-05 11:13:57Z

RE your query Daniel R Chambers myself, son of Clarence M.,Grandfather Lonnie D., Check out Campbell County TN and Union County TN I have extracted census data and can send images, respectfully, D.R. Chambers

Re: WALKER

joanevanshoustontx — 2012-12-14 22:30:01Z

Texas Death Certificate: died January 11, 1928, Dallas, Dallas TX. Burial: Wheatland Cemetery.

Re: Minchew family

prm07 — 2012-09-24 02:36:33Z

I have that J. T. married Nancy E. Alexander (1841 - 1879) some time after his seventh child with Elizabeth, William was born in 1859. His first of seven children with Nancy, Nathan, was born in 1862. Nancy passed away shortly after their last child Mollie was born.

John Harvey Craig was Emma's second husband. Sorry it took so long to find your message.

Paul Minshew
Round Rock, Texas

Re: William Lafayette Wallace (Bill)

bgraves34 — 2012-06-02 20:23:04Z

Lisa,

Would you please email me direct at bgraves34@aol.com regarding the marriage and family line of Opal Hatfield? Opal is a distant cousin of mine thru her mother's side of the family, the Lassiters. I would love to talk to you about this family line.

Thanks,
Bonnie Graves

Re: Perkins, William father, son Henry W.,Johnnie J and George L

SueDixey — 2012-04-06 01:54:37Z

Do I understand you are not related? Thanks this is a lot of digging.

My problem is that in Angelina and Robertson Counties there are two distinct Perkins lines that seem NOT related in the county at the exact time making it hard to differentiate who belongs to whose lines. In addition, the families use the same common male and female names for kids, which doesnt help researchers.

I will take a stab at this to see where it leads me.
thanks again,
Sue

Re: Perkins, William father, son Henry W.,Johnnie J and George L

PaSain — 2012-04-05 05:05:11Z

I am not related.

Sarah Price b. SC abt 1844 lived in Angelina Co 1850 and 1860 census
Sarah D Sanders b. SC abt 1845 lived in Angelina Co 1860 census
Sarah D Perkins b. SC abt 1845 lived in Robertson Co TX 1870 & 1880 with her husband and children.

1850 Event Place: Pickens county, part of, Pickens, Alabama, United States
James Sanders M 38 born SC
Dice Sanders F 40 born SC
Lewis Sanders M 11 born AL
Andrew Sanders M 8 born SC
Sarah Sanders F 5 born SC
Adaline Sanders F 3 born AL
John Sanders M 1 born AL

Name: Sarah D Sanders
1860 Residence: , Angelina, Texas
Ward: The Second District
Age: 16 years
Estimated Birth Year: 1844
Birthplace: South Carolina
Gender: Female
Page: 40
Family Number: 306
Film Number: 805287
DGS Number: 4297429
Image Number: 00218
NARA Number: M653
James F Sanders 49 SC
Dicey Sanders 48 SC
Andrew Sanders 18 SC
Sarah D Sanders 16 SC
Adeline Sanders 14 AL
John H Sanders 11 AL
James Sanders 9 AL

Louis L Sanders 1839 AL 1860 Angelina Co

1870 Precinct 5 Robertson, Texas post office in "Brennond"
#1030
G W Perkins 1810 NC justice of peace
Tabitha Perkins 1816 GA
#1031
Wm Perkins 1837 AL clerk of Justice court
Sarah D Perkins 1845 South Carolina
Anna W Perkins 1 1869 TX female

1880 Robertson Co Texas
William Perkins born ALABAMA abt 1837 said father b. NC mother b. MASSACHUSETTS
Sarah D Perkins born SOUTH CAROLINA 1844 said both parents born SC
Henry W Perkins 1869 TX
John J Perkins 1872 TX
George L Perkins 1876 TX

Name: George L. Perkins
Death Date: 28 Mar 1953
Death Place: Lufkin, Angelina, Texas
Gender: Male
Race: White
Death Age: 78 years 7 months 19 days
Estimated Birth Date:
Birth Date: 09 Aug 1874
Birthplace: Franklin, Robinson, Texas
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Occupation: R.R. Engineer
Place of Residence: Lufkin, Angelina, Texas
Cemetery: Jonesville
Burial Place: Huntington, Angelina, Texas
Burial Date: 29 Mar 1953
Additional Relatives: X - Mrs. Eskie McIntosh was informant
Film Number: 2113848
Digital Film Number: 4167312
Image Number: 001620
Reference Number: cn 11410
Source Citation
"Texas Deaths, 1890-1976," index and images, FamilySearch https://familysearch.org

Name: Mrs Lalla Perkins
Death Date: 26 Dec 1957
Death Place: Lufkin Angelina, Texas
Gender: Female
Race: W
Death Age: 80 years 9 months 25 days
Estimated Birth Date:
Birth Date: 01 Mar 1877
Birthplace: Fannin Co Tx
Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name: Clem C Capshaw
Father's Birthplace: Al
Mother's Name: Emma Dupree
Mother's Birthplace: Al
Occupation: Housewife
Place of Residence: Lufkin Angelina TX
Cemetery: Jonesville
Burial Place: Angelina Co Tx
Burial Date: 27 Dec 1957
Additional Relatives: V D Perkins informant
Film Number: 2135926
Digital Film Number: 4163658
Image Number: 3299
Reference Number: v X cn 72207

Name: Eskie Mcintosh
Event: Census
Event Date: 1930
Event Place: Precinct 6, Angelina, Texas
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Marital Status: Married
Race: White
Birthplace: Texas
Estimated Birth Year: 1910
Immigration Year:
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Father's Birthplace: Texas
Mother's Birthplace: Texas
Enumeration District Number: 0017
Family Number: 23
Sheet Number and Letter: 2A
Line Number: 1
NARA Publication: T626, roll 2288
Film Number: 2342022
Digital Folder Number: 4547936
Image Number: 00527
Spouse George Mcintosh M 36
Eskie Mcintosh F 20
Yoney Foster M 29 1901 TX
Zella M Foster F 25 1905 TX wife of Yoney
Child Fleta B Foster F 2 1928 dtr
Child Glene Foster M 1 1929 son
Lemora Pearl McIntosh 25 May 1930 Angelina Co
Betty Joe McIntosh 15 Mar 1932 Angelina Co
June Edward McIntosh 14 Jan 1937 Angelina Co
Joan McIntosh 12 Jan 1941 Angelina Co
Jerry Lynn McIntosh 04 Aug 1943 Angelina Co

Spouse George Perkins M 52
Lala Perkins F 52 born AR
Child George Perkins M 24
Child Debs Perkins M 17

Name: Eskie Perkins
1920 Residence: , Angelina, Texas
Estimated Birth Year: 1910
Age: 10
Birthplace: Texas
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Gender: Female
Race: White
Marital Status: Single
Father's Birthplace: Texas
Mother's Birthplace: Arkansas
Film Number: 1821773
Digital Folder Number: 4391967
Image Number: 00446
Sheet Number: 5
Household Gender Age
Parent G L Perkins M 42y
Parent L A Perkins F 42y 1878 AR wife
Charlie Perkins M 20y TX
Almettie Perkins F 19y TX
George Perkins M 14y TX
Eskie Perkins F 10y TX
V D Perkins M 7y TX
W C Ivy F 6m TX grand dtr

1910 Yantis, Wood, Texas
Spouse George Y Pirkins M 32y TX 2nd marriage 5 yrs
Lalla Pirkins F 33y born AR 1st marriage bore three children 2 living
Child Charlie Pirkins M 10y
Child Almetter Pirkins F 9y
Child George Pirkins M 4y

1900 JP 2 Rains Co Texas
Salla Jackson Dec 1844 SC parents SC bore THREE CHILDREN ALL LIVING
John Perkins AUG 1872 married 6 yrs
Mary J Perkins Sept 1888 ? 1878 ? age 21 TX two children parents born MS
Alta Perkins Sept 1896 TX
Johnie Perkins July 1899 TX

1900 JP 2 Rains Co Texas
G L Perkins said he was born Aug 1877 TX married 2 yrs
Mettie Jan 1880 Alabama bore 2 children one living
Chas Perkins July 1899

Name: Mrs. Perkins
Death Date: 11 Apr 1906
Death Place: Ophelia, Rains, Texas
Gender: Female
Race: W
Death Age: 26 years
Estimated Birth Date: 1880
Birth Date:
Birthplace: America
Marital Status:
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Occupation:
Place of Residence: Ophelia
Cemetery:
Burial Place:
Burial Date:
Additional Relatives:
Film Number: 2050035
Digital Film Number: 4165841
Image Number: 1721
Reference Number: cn 47484
Source Citation
"Texas Deaths, 1890-1976," index and images, FamilySearch https://familysearch.org

Name: Wesley Edmond Sanders
Death Date: 13 Feb 1918
Death Place: Co..., Rains, Texas
Gender: Male
Race: white
Death Age: 36 years
Estimated Birth Date:
Birth Date: 1881
Birthplace: Wood Co.
Marital Status:
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name: J.A. Sanders
Father's Birthplace: Wood Co., Tex.
Mother's Name: Mary Mckay
Mother's Birthplace: Do Not Know
Occupation: Farmer
Place of Residence:
Cemetery: Pilgrims Rest
Burial Place:
Burial Date: 13 Feb 1918
Additional Relatives:
Film Number: 2073179
Digital Film Number: 4165785
Image Number: 1369
Reference Number: cn 9047
A C Taylor? Alba TX informant

Name: Wesley E Sanders
County: Rains, town of Ginger
State: Texas
Birthplace: Alba Texas;United States of America
Birth Date: 29 Dec 1886
Race: Caucasian (White)
FHL Roll Number: 1983579
DraftBoard: 0 05 June 1917 wife and 2 children employed at Fraziers Brick Co in Ginger

Name: Wesley Sanders
Titles & Terms:
1900 Residence: Justice Precinct 2, Rains, Texas
Birth Date: Dec 1889
Birthplace: Texas
Relationship to Head of Household: Grandson
Spouse:
Spouse's Titles & Terms:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Father:
Father's Titles & Terms:
Father's Birthplace: Texas
Mother:
Mother's Titles & Terms:
Mother's Birthplace: Texas
Race or Color (expanded): White
Head-of-household Name: C E Mckay
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Years Married:
Estimated Marriage Year:
Mother How Many Children:
Number Living Children:
Immigration Year:
Enumeration District: 0076
Page: 2
Sheet Letter: B
Family Number: 32
Reference Number: 97
Film Number: 1241665
Image Number: 00247
Household Gender Age
C E Mckay F born MS Mar 1847 widow bore 9 children 6 living
Allen Mckay M
Rebecca Sellers F
Joe Mckay M
Willis Mckay M
Wesley Sanders M

Name: Charlie Buckner Perkins
County: Rains
State: Texas
Birth Date: 29 Jul 1899
Race: White
FHL Roll Number: 1983579
DraftBoard: 0 WW I 12 Sept 1918 Hester R Perkins wife, Emory TX nearest relative.

C B Perkins - Inez Jacks
C G Gerald Perkins 14 Feb 1930 Angelina

Charlie B Perkins - Nelly/Nellie Reba Haskins
Flora Nell 14 Aug 36 Angelina
Jonie Louis 14 June 38 Angelina
Ernesty Ray 26 Aug 40 Angelina
Syble Fay 18 Jul 44 Angelina
Charlsey Mae 01 Aug 50 Angelina

Name: Charlie B. Perkins
Death Date: 05 Sep 1969
Death Place: Lufkin, Angelina, Texas
Gender: Male
Race:
Death Age: 70 years
Estimated Birth Date:
Birth Date: 29 July 1899
Birthplace:
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Mrs. Nellie Perkins
Father's Name: George Perkins
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name: Mettie Dreadin
Mother's Birthplace:
Occupation:
Place of Residence:
Cemetery:
Burial Place:
Burial Date:
Additional Relatives:
Film Number: 2218188
Digital Film Number: 4168796
Image Number: 1646
Reference Number: 68903

Perkins, William father, son Henry W.,Johnnie J and George L

SueDixey — 2012-04-02 21:03:54Z

Researching my Perkins family that lived in Rains Co, TX prior to 1900.

William Perkins married a Sarah B/D. MNU in AngelinaCo,TX about 1866. The parents and kids were raised in Angelina and Robertson Co ( 1870 and 1880) Looks like they had three sons:

Henry W. b. 1869. He is widowed in 1910 census, I dont have a name for wife and appears they had no kids.

John J, b. 1872, but other trees list him as Johnnie J who married Mary Jane McKay

George L b. 1874. I am trying to locate a spouse and kids for him.

William died sometime after the 1880 census. Sarah remarried to a 'Jackson' and is widow again in the 1900 census.

I have William's line back to his granfather and working on placing him in the right Perkins family. Anyone know this family? Trying to find living decendants to the Perkins.
Sue
sodixey@hotmail.com

Re: William Lafayette Wallace (Bill)

lisastepan61866 — 2012-03-26 14:53:56Z

Wow. That's alot of info to start on. Thanks so much for your help. Anymore info is greatly appreciated.

Re: William Lafayette Wallace (Bill)

PaSain — 2012-03-26 05:09:14Z

Here is my contribution for the Wallace family from Washington Co VA. Need to look for additional Wallace marriages in Hunt Co Texas and surrounding counties.

I find public trees regarding the family of William L Wallace and Margaret Emma Shelton.

Groom's Name: William L. Wallace
Groom's Birth Date: 1834
Groom's Birthplace: Washington Co., Va.
Groom's Age: 21
Bride's Name: Margaret E. Shelton
Bride's Birth Date: 1835
Bride's Birthplace: Rockingham Co., N.C.
Bride's Age: 20
Marriage Date: 18 Oct 1855
Marriage Place: Washington, Virginia
Groom's Father's Name: Robert Wallace
Groom's Mother's Name: Nancy Wallace
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Single
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00683-1
System Origin: Virginia-EASy
Source Film Number: 34389
Reference Number: P. 502
Source: familysearch.org

1880 Abingdon, Washington, VA
William Wallace 45 1835 VA
Emma Wallace 43 1837 VA
Sue Alice Wallace 14 1866 VA
May E. Wallace 13 1865
Miranda Wallace 11 1869
Eliza Wallace 10 1870
William Wallace 8 1872
Sammy Wallace 6 1874
Minnie Wallace 5 1875
Frank Wallace 3 1877

1880 Goodson, Washington, VA
Robert Wallace 1812 said born in NC parents NC
Nancy Wallace 1815 VA parents VA wife
Robert Chapman 1862 VA grand son

Name: Sue Alice Crabb
Death Date: 21 Sep 1936
Death Place: Memphis, Hall, Texas
Gender: Female
Race: White
Death Age: 70 years 2 months 3 days
Estimated Birth Date:
Birth Date: 18 Jul 1866
Birthplace: West Virginia
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: B. C. Crabb
Father's Name: Bill Wallace
Father's Birthplace: Ireland
Mother's Name: Emma Shelton
Mother's Birthplace:
Occupation: Housekeeper
Place of Residence: Lakeview, Texas
Cemetery:
Burial Place: Lakeview, Texas
Burial Date: 22 Sep 1936
Additional Relatives: X
Film Number: 2116964
Digital Film Number: 4166612
Image Number: 3282
Reference Number: 45327
Estelle Ryherd? Dallas TX informant

Suzie Wallace said she was b. AL 1869 married abt 1893 to Robt C Crabb b. AR abt 1860 lived Hall Co TX 1900 - 1930 census. On the 1930 census she said she was born in WVa 1868.
Emma/Emmie Florene Crabb May 1894 TX
Tom William Crabb 03 May 1895 Memphis, TX registered WW II draft in Lakeview 1942 listed B C Crabb nearest relative. Tom Crabb married Bertha Stoner
Ba.. ? Crabb June 1898 TX dtr
Conley C Crabb Apr 1899 TX son or 31 Mar 1898 Hall co died in Memphis, Hall Co 19 Mar 1945 son of Bob Crabb born AR and Sue Alice Wallace born VA. Conley Crabb married Midge Mason
Katie Crabb 1904 TX
Joe B Crabb born 19 May 1906 Lakeview, Hall Co TX married Ora Lee Hafley/Habley

Groom's Name: Robt. Crabb
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Sue Wallis
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 17 Jul 1892
Marriage Place: , Hunt, Texas

Ingram C. Shelton
Virginia, Marriages, 1785-1940
birth: 1845 Rockingham Co., N.C.
marriage: 05 Apr 1866 Washington, Virginia
parents: Licinda Shelton
spouse: Mary A.E. Mcdaniel

Ingram A Shelton b. NC 1846 son of Jacob Shelton and Lucinda Allen married Letitia Shrader 16 Oct 1875 Wythe, VA. I. C. Shelton said born VA 1847 and wife L. A. Shelton b. VA 1856 lived in Wythe Co in 1880

Jacob Shelton married Lucinda Allen 02 or 26 Nov 1835 Rockingham NC

Jacob Shelton
Virginia, Marriages, 1785-1940
birth: 1844 Rockingham Co. Va.
marriage: 28 Dec 1866 Washington, Virginia
parents: John Shelton, Fanny Shelton
spouse: Mary C. Ramsey

1850 Washington Co VA
Robert Wallace 38 born VA shoemaker
Nancy Wallace 35 VA
William Wallace 15
John Wallace 10
Ellen Wallace 06 ?

30 Aug 1860; Census Place: Western District, Washington, Virginia; Roll: M653_1383; Page: 593; Image: 235; Family History Library Film: 805383.
Post Office: Abingdon
William Wallace 25 VA
Emma Wallace 22 NC
John Wallace 3 VA
Penelope Wallace 2 VA
Robert Wallace 1 VA

1870; Census Place: Goodson, Washington, Virginia; Roll: M593_1681; Page: 106A; Image: 215; Family History Library Film: 553180.
Abingdon Post office
Robert Wallace 59
Nancy Wallace 52
Elizabeth Chapman 33 - Elizabeth E "Wallis" married George W Chapman 25 Feb 1854 Washington Co
Walter J Chapman 15
John W Chapman 12
Robert L Chapman 10
Nancy J Chapman 7

24 June 1870; Census Place: Goodson, Washington, Virginia; Roll: M593_1681; Page: 90B; Image: 184; Family History Library Film: 553180.
Abingdon Post Office
William L Wallace 35
Margaret E Wallace 15
John A Wallace 14 lived in Glade Spring, Washington Co 1880 age 22 single
Francis Wallace 12 male
Robert Wallace 8 - Robert Wallace age 21 lived in Abingdon in 1880 household of James Fulcher
Nancy Ellen Wallace 9 17 May 1861 VA - 14 Feb 1939 Rains Co married James Carter Tadlock in Hunt Co 1884. N E Wallace married J C Tadlock 05 Nov 1884 Hunt Co. Someone has posted a picture of her headstone buried Smyrna Cem, they lived in Rains Co 1900 - 1930.
Susan Wallace 6
Margaret Wallace 6
Miranda Wallace 2
Anne E Wallace 6/12 born Dec 1869

Groom's Name: Robt. P. Wallace
Groom's Birth Date: 1860
Groom's Birthplace: Washington Co., Va.
Groom's Age: 26
Bride's Name: Mary Frances Speer
Bride's Birth Date: 1863
Bride's Birthplace: Washington Co., Va.
Bride's Age: 23
Marriage Date: 21 Sep 1886
Marriage Place: Washington, Virginia
Groom's Father's Name: Wm. L. Wallace
Groom's Mother's Name: Emma Wallace
Bride's Father's Name: Jas. W. Speer
Bride's Mother's Name: Elizabeth J. Speer
Groom's Race: White

Name: Robt. Wallace
Gender: Male
Burial Date:
Burial Place:
Death Date: 17 Nov 1889
Death Place: Abingdon, Washington, Virginia
Age: 29
Birth Date: 1860
Birthplace: Washington
Occupation: Lumberman
Race: White
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name: William Wallace

Name: John Adison Wallace
Gender: Male
Burial Date:
Burial Place:
Death Date: 03 Feb 1925
Death Place:
Age: 66
Birth Date: 1859
Birthplace:
Occupation:
Race:
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Emily Wallace
Father's Name: William Wallace
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name: Emma Shelton
Mother's Birthplace:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I01237-1
System Origin: Oregon-EASy
Source Film Number: 2110201
Reference Number: 579
Source: familysearch.org

Groom's Name: John A. Wallace
Groom's Birth Date: 1857
Groom's Birthplace: Washington Co., Va.
Groom's Age: 30
Bride's Name: Emily Jane Mcconnell
Bride's Birth Date: 1864
Bride's Birthplace: Washington Co., Va.
Bride's Age: 23
Marriage Date: 23 Jan 1887
Marriage Place: Washington, Virginia
Groom's Father's Name: Wm. L. Wallace
Groom's Mother's Name: Emeline Wallace
Bride's Father's Name: John Mcconnell
Bride's Mother's Name: Clemintine Mcconnell
Groom's Race: White
Groom's Marital Status: Single
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race: White
Bride's Marital Status: Single

Name: Sam P. Wallace born VA or WVa lived Rockwall Co TX 1900 married Eva L Morrow 12 Dec 1909 Wood co she was born TX abt 1892 they had no children wife Eva Wallace informant on death record he was buried Pilgrim Rest Cem
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 30 Jan 1947
Burial Place: Rains, Texas
Death Date: 29 Jan 1947
Death Place: Alba, Wood, Texas
Age: 72
Birth Date: 14 Aug 1874
Birthplace: Virginia
Occupation: Farmer
Race: White
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Eva Wallace

Name: Willie Wallace
Event: Birth
Event Date: 20 Aug 1917
Event Place: Quinlan, Hunt, Texas, United States
Gender: Male
Father: W L Wallace
Mother: Ethel Natisn
Certificate Number: 34846
Digital Folder Number: 004492097
Image Number: 00557

1930 Event Place: Precinct 4, Rains, Texas
Parent Bill Wallace M 53
Parent Ethel Wallace F 38
Leonard Wallace M 19 - James Leonard Jones
Era Wallace F 14
Willie Wallace M 10
Lois I Wallace F 8
Marvin C Wallace M 5

1920 Residence: , Hunt, Texas
Parent William L Wallace M 45y born VA
Parent Ethel Wallace F 24y born TX
Robert Wallace M 17y - Robert P Wallace 25 Mar 1902 - 13 Sept 1951 buried Hooker Ridge
Fate Wallace M 14y - 1905
Eva Wallace F 4y
Willie Wallace M 2y
James Leonard Jones M 8y "son" born TX

Groom's Name: L. L. Jones
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Ethel Nation
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 09 May 1908
Marriage Place: Hunt, Texas

Mollie unknown born TX Mar 1880 married 0 yrs to Wm L Wallace 1900 census mother of "Fate" and Robert P Wallace.

Frank Wallace married Verna Elizabeth Morris abt 1899 dtr of Henry Morris and Sally Stewart.

Name: Fayette Wallace
Death Date: 26 Dec 1957
Death Place: Overton Rusk, Texas
Gender: Male
Race: W
Death Age: 53 years 1 month 22 days
Estimated Birth Date:
Birth Date: 04 Nov 1904
Birthplace: Raines Co Tx
Marital Status: Divorced
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Occupation: Humble Oil-Ref Co
Place of Residence: Overton Rusk Texas
Cemetery: Overton City
Burial Place: Overton Tx
Burial Date: 28 Dec 1957
Additional Relatives:
Film Number: 2135926
Digital Film Number: 4163658
Image Number: 1736
Reference Number: v X cn 70678
Mrs. George A Megason informant

Name: George Aurius Megason
Event: Marriage
Event Date: 13 Nov 1945
Event Place: , Miller, Arkansas, United States
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: 1927 (born De Kalb Bowie Co 09 Feb 1927 died 23 Aug 2002)
Residence: Longview, Gregg, Texas
Spouse: Helen Joyce Wallace
Spouse's Age: 18
Spouse's Estimated Birth Year: 1927
Spouse's Residence: Longview, Gregg, Texas
Marriage License Date: 13 Nov 1945
Page: 378
Film Number: 1977386
Digital Folder Number: 004401675
Image Number: 00683
George Lynn Megason 1947 & Pamela Gay Megason 1952 both born Gregg Co

Name: Ethyl Mae Wallace
Death Date: 21 Jul 1967
Death Place: Irving, Dallas, Texas
Gender: Female
Race: White
Death Age: 76 years
Estimated Birth Date:
Birth Date: 16 Dec 1890
Birthplace: Texas
Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name: Ike Nations
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name: Mary Dodson
Mother's Birthplace:
Occupation: Housewife Domestic
Place of Residence: Point, Rains, Texas
Cemetery: Hooker Ridge Cemetery
Burial Place: Lone Oak, Texas
Burial Date: 21 Jul 1967
Additional Relatives:
Film Number: 2138739
Digital Film Number: 4027170
Image Number: 2870
Reference Number: cn57677
Mrs. Coleen Northcutt informant

Groom's Name: I. S. Nations
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: C. R. Dodson
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 15 Jan 1891
Marriage Place: , Hunt, Texas

Isaac Nations b. TX 1870 lived Hunt Co 1880 son of Nathaniel Nations b. AL 1839 and Nanny b. AL 1850 dtr of Lanidy Blaylock b. GA 1815 widowed mother in law. Nathaniel's 1st two children b. LA James L 1866 and Alice M 1868. Mrs. Nannie Nations married H M Green 18 Sept 1890 Hunt Co.

"Ether" Nations b. Dec 1892 and brother Willis born Oct 1897 living with their uncle and aunt Steve D Strickland b. TX Dec 1872 and Lula E DODSON Strickland b. TX Apr 1878. in Hunt Co in 1900. S D Strickland & L E Dodson married 25 Dec 1892 Hunt Co. Willie Nation was living with uncle George Dodson in Hunt Co in 1910.

Cora Coleen Wallace - Joseph Bascom/Baskom Northcutt 23 June 1931 - 21 Dec 2009 Rains Co
Sandra Gail 1951 Dallas
David Edgar 1953 Dallas
Michael Wayne 1955 Dallas
Janet Lynn 1959 Hunt
Johnny Lee 1961 VanZandt
Coleen W Northcutt b. 18 Jan or Mar 1932 known to live in Point in 1996 could not find a birth record myself for Cora Coleen.

Re: William Lafayette Wallace (Bill)

lisastepan61866 — 2012-03-25 20:32:30Z

Interesting. I now we have Cherokee in the line, but we were told his wife Ethel Mae Nations was Native American. I will follow this lead though, because all my leads have come up blank. He was my g great father. He actually died before my Dad was born, so the stories were scarce. I found Fred Wallace on his death certificate, so I will now look for Frank too.

Re: William Lafayette Wallace (Bill)

HL2604 — 2012-03-25 20:15:42Z

Strictly "supposition" 'cause I'm not related and clueless! He also lived in Kaufman County (1900) and Hunt County (1910-1920)? He married, first, to Mollie LNU per 1900 Kaufman-Precinct 3-District 74-Image 9. Nearby, and also from Virginia, lived Frank Wallace and wife Verna. Knowing the patterns of family relocations to Texas, I'm supposing William and Frank were brothers? That's "loosely" supported by WWI Draft Card for William La Fayette Wallace which records his birthdate: 7 Feb 1874. His Death Certificate has 1871 and that might be more correct? Where were they in the same household, 1880 VA-Washington-Abingdon-093-Images 30 & 31. Frank Rutledge Wallace died 20 Dec 1947 in Denton County. Has there been conversation regarding Native American Hertitage? William Wallace, Cherokee, Dawes #355.

William Lafayette Wallace (Bill)

lisastepan61866 — 2012-03-25 17:58:57Z

I am looking for information on Bill Wallace. He lived in Rains county back in the early 1900's. He was originally from Virginia, but that is all I can find. He married Ethel Nations and my grandfather was Willie Wallace (Bud). They are both buried at Hooker Ridge Cemetary.

Re: Minchew family

hzd2qr — 2012-02-13 08:07:53Z

Hi, stephnkurt2004@yahoo.com,

I am looking for information on Joe Hezekiah Robinson on behalf of my step-dad, who is a decendent of Ed's through Ed's son, Elmer Trudis Robinson. I am trying to corroborate the story about Tom, Ed, and Joe coming to Texas after the incident you mention. This is the first hint I've found that Martha Swindle Robinson did not come to Texas with her husband and sons. I'm also trying to locate ancestors of Joe's because I'm stuck at him in my research. If you are still checking this board, I would really appreciate any information you can give me. Feel free to contact me at sheri.bierschwale@hp.com or at sheri.bierschwale@gmail.com. Thanks!

Re: CRABTREE Surname

DONNAFLETCHER5899 — 2012-02-01 01:19:21Z

ARCHIE RAY CRABTREE BORN 3-28-1928 IN RAINS CO. TEXAS WAS MY DAD. HOPING TO HEAR FROM YOU WITH ANY INFO ON THIS CRABTREE FAMILY. MANY THANKS FOR ANY HELP.

Re: CRABTREE Surname

DONNAFLETCHER5899 — 2012-01-30 03:54:49Z

I am responding to your query on the Crabtree/Brewer post, Hammer/Crabtree post. This is my family and your are the first person to ask about their residence from Tennessee to Arkansas. I have been locked down for information on my Great Grandfather's side. His name was Joseph Benjamin Crabtree born in 1856 in Yell Co. Ark. I am thinking that Benjamin and Sarah were his parents. Need your info and help. YEA!!!

Re: information

barbaralking — 2011-08-17 02:06:49Z

I've lost touch, but will look for an address. We corresponded by mail, so I may have an address. I'll have to dig for it. I'll look and let you know.

Barbara

Re: information

PatticakeinMO — 2011-08-16 22:50:06Z

Barbara,

I'm researching this Lake line as well. If you happen to read this and are still in touch with the folks researching this Lake line (from Missouri), please ask them to post a message to me if possible. I descend from Thomas Lake (and his wife, Barbara Whaley), who we believe to be the father of this Alanson/Alonson and J.W. (James W.) Lake, through his daughter, Mary Elizabeth Lake Edwards - my maternal great-great grandmother. Thank you and best of luck to you in your searches too!

Re: Elbert F. Rains

mickeycooper75440 — 2011-06-17 04:29:39Z

Also, I forgot to ask. Was the F. as a middle initial for the name Fanning?

Re: Elbert F. Rains

mickeycooper75440 — 2011-06-17 04:27:12Z

I am curious. Some years ago I remember some of the Rains family descendants telling about a cousin in Oklahoma who was a popular politician. According to them, he would have been elected Speaker of the Oklahoma Legislature, but a bad speech impediment caused him much embarrassment when he stood before a crowd. Some of the Oklahoma Rains' were returned to Texas and buried in the Coats Graveyard near the town of Point, Texas. Also some are buried in the Williams family burial ground and the Rice family plot as well as the Lone Star Cemetery near Point.

Re: Elbert F. Rains

PaSain — 2011-04-30 14:26:42Z

Find a Spencerville OK in Choctaw County . . .no Spenceville. Try the Choctaw County board. This board for RAINS COUNTY TEXAS.

Elbert F. Rains

lorriepeter62 — 2011-04-29 12:58:13Z

Looking for cemetery where Elbert Rains is Buried.
D: 1910 in Spenceville, OK

Re: Oneta Tucker-William H. Hill lookup

triciareddin1 — 2011-02-12 17:02:05Z

Please contact me @ triciareddin1@hotmail.com and I will send my physical address. Thanks so very much.

Re: Oneta Tucker-William H. Hill lookup

Elaine_Bay — 2011-02-12 13:53:44Z

Please send your mailing address; my friend has obtained a copy of the marriage license to mail to you.

Elaine Nall Bay
RCGS

Re: Cemetery look-up

barbaralking — 2011-02-01 23:44:03Z

The grave would still probably be in Rains, no matter when he died.

"William Larkin Webb. He died in 1868 in Emory TX"

Barbara

Re: Cemetery look-up

chaswebb_1 — 2011-02-01 23:16:11Z

Elaine,

Thanks for pointing me to the correct board. I believe Emory (Springville)was in Wood County in 1868.

Re: Lynch Cemetery lookup-and marriage lookup - Norris/Morris

Elaine_Bay — 2011-02-01 17:27:45Z

Yes, Mrs. Frankie Morris is buried in Lynch Cem in Rains County. Her dates are May 17,m1862 - Nov 10, 1938.

Re: Cemetery look-up

Elaine_Bay — 2011-02-01 17:19:43Z

Rains County wasn't founded until 1870. Depending on what area of the current county your ancestor lived in, you would need to check in Hopkins Co., Van Zandt County, Hunt County, or Wood County - the counties from which Rains County was formed.

Cemetery look-up

chaswebb_1 — 2010-09-10 01:23:42Z

Looking for the grave of William Larkin Webb. He died in 1868 in Emory TX.
Would someone please do a cemetery look-up for me.

Thanks

Re: Minchew family

stephnkurt2004 — 2010-09-07 04:59:58Z

I have some info on Tom as well, they moved here to Alba,Texas about 1900 and I live not to far from there now. I have found a book called the Alba Book 100 years to remember, and it has some stories in it about Tom & Lear Robinson. I think you could contact city hall of Alba and buy one maybe? As far as Josephs parents go I have been told that he may have been indain and that would make since, my great g-dad talked about him some but not to much he came to Alba then moved to an Indain Res. about 12-15 yrs after they came here and Edd & Tom started their familes. I will be loading picts but that will be later, just email me stephnkurt2004@yahoo.com if you would like so I can send them to you when I get them up and going. There is also a place called the "Old Home Place" this is where Edd & Effie had their kids and raised them, Tom lived close to them when he passed, some of the kids went to live with Edd , I have how many but not at my finger tips rt now. Swindle is correct on Marthas parents. I was also told that they lived in MS there was Joe & Martha , they has 3 kids Edd, Tom and a girl -Martha & the daughter did not make it here with the males, the story goes that Edd & Tom got into a fight with a man there in town and Tom shot the man-(back then you counldnt cross state lines to get someone) and where looking for him to charge w/ murder so Joe told him and Edd to get out of the state ,and on the way out Joe came w them but not the mother & daughter. I have no idea if this is true or not but this is what I was told. I would love to know if you know any of this to be true or false?!!?! Thanks & hope that helps

Re: Minchew family

stevenmeredith35 — 2010-09-06 04:02:11Z

I just love family history and would love to have history on the descendants of James Edward Robinson to add to our history. I will be more than happy to give you history on John Thomas Robinson he was my ancestor if you would like.Would also love any old family pics to add to their names, etc.I have that their parents were Joseph Hezekiah Robinson & Martha Ann Swindle. Do you know who Joseph's parents were or siblings ? I have that Martha 's parents were Thomas J. Swindle & Matilda Ann Bright.
Thanks,
Steven Meredith
stevenmeredith@sbcglobal.net

Re: Minchew family

stephnkurt2004 — 2010-09-06 01:54:03Z

I do not know what you are looking for but maybe I can help?!? I am the great grand daughter of Mickey Robinson -his father was James Edward Robinson brother to John Thomas Robinson.

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

HL2604 — 2010-06-06 01:04:47Z

Okay! You're on my list of beautiful people!(lol)

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

barbaralking — 2010-06-06 00:49:27Z

Actually, I'm a chef.

Barbara

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

HL2604 — 2010-06-05 23:42:29Z

You can call me "anything" you want! Just don't call me late when it's time to eat? I like to take my shoes off and "stuff" myself so that I cannot get up from the table!(lol) I'm considering charging a "mess" of teacakes for helping with genealogical lookups? Know any good bakers?

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

barbaralking — 2010-06-05 23:15:53Z

Sorry, I made a bad assumption. She is a he!! AND very helpful.

Barbara

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

HL2604 — 2010-06-05 17:10:58Z

Let's git it??? First: save census records to your family tree. It's called "sourcing" and provides official documentation. If other people are researching the same family, they will know that you have saved the census image(s). Then, other researchers can click your username and forward emails. Never know? They might be close kin? In the upper right corner of census images is the option to "Save" records to a variety of sources. Beneath it is a listing of people who have saved records to public family trees. Click on the cenus person and be redirected to that family tree. Do this? From ancestry.com homepage, 1) point mouse at Search in the header; 2) scroll to Public Member Trees then click; 3) enter George W Melton as the search subject; 4) enter George W Melton as his father; 5) enter Sarah J Heath as his mother; 5) enter 1852 as his birth; 6) pulldown tab to display USA; 7) pulldown tab to display Texas, 8) click search. The first five trees have the correct person. The best sourced tree is "The Lane Family" but even it contains errors. I have forwarded an email to the owner in hopes she will "do the right thing"? Notice that your tree is missing? We'll fix that!

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

Katz25 — 2010-06-05 16:47:03Z

LOL!! Your not on my bad side, I thought I had done something wrong. I'm sorry you've taken on yourself such harsh punishment...that's to funny!!!

Yes I'm ready to search teacher - tell me what I need to do and I'll do my best.

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

HL2604 — 2010-06-05 15:18:16Z

Me!!! HL2604 the one who got, by my error, on your "bad" side!(lol) I've given myself 15 lashes with an al dente spaghetti noodle as punishment! Are you ready to begin searching? OBTW! Messages in response to postings are indented below the intended recipient.

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

Katz25 — 2010-06-05 14:42:29Z

Which she is a he???

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

HL2604 — 2010-06-05 14:28:59Z

She is a he!!! An old man, in fact! Thanks for expressing it in simple yet elegant terms!

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

barbaralking — 2010-06-05 13:31:49Z

We have a "genealogy angel" who sometimes does research for people with problems that interest her in East Texas Counties. She has done it for me. She can find stuff in places that never occured to me to look. She's been very helpful to lots of folks.

I'm not sure this is the same person, but by "not related" she means she is not part of your family. She is "not related" to the person you are researching or to you.

She is not insulting you. She's only saying that if you'll post what you already know, then she won't have to do that research again.

By the way, I'm "not related" either.

B King

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

HL2604 — 2010-06-05 10:26:12Z

Oh no! I meant, "I am not related"! Reading your other messages gave me an idea of your progress. Wasn't scolding, simply exasperating! Let's start over? I want to help and that "My Family Tree" does not belong to me? You don't have to keep it "short". Use that pilotsearch url to view death certificates: Thomas A. Shipley (28 Dec 1889 - 17 Feb 1962), Lela Ophelia Walterhouse (4 Feb 1884 - 3 Jul 1964), James Scott Shipley (16 Aug 1893 - 15 Jul 1959), B. N. Stone (10 Feb 1891 - 22 Jun 1944), Mrs. Nannie Shipley (21 May 1854 - 2 Mar 1928), and J. H. Shipley (28 May 1853 - 3 Apr 1938). The Shipley brothers answered the "call" by registering for WWI Draft. Thomas A. (28 Dec 1889), George William (6 Jul 1883), James (16 Aug 1895), and John Henry Shipley (23 Jul 1880) registered in Rains County. Bill Stone (10 Feb 1891) also registered and listed a wife plus two children. You may already have the 1880 Rains-Precinct 1-District 97-Image 30 of the Shipley family?

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

Katz25 — 2010-06-05 05:49:32Z

I will e-mail you....thanks!

Re: Shipley/Melton/Stone Family

Katz25 — 2010-06-05 05:48:40Z

Gosh I feel like I'm being scolded!!! Don't know what you mean by "Not Related". Melton was Shipley's mother's maiden name, Shipley was my gmother, Stone (Bill (Newton)my gfather. Next I've only posted twice that I know of on this forum and twice under Shipley so if you've read my "other postings" it would be very few. I have more information, but thought I was suppose to keep it short on this forum. Like I know Charles A. was married to Sallie Godwin and had 6 children, 2 died..then married Bertie and they had 8 children, but have only found 6 names. I never knew Bill Stone he died in 1944. But I know stories from family who I have lived arond my whole life, plus from my family. I know the woman that was married to one of their sons, Walter Nugen. But I really want to find out about this side of my family. Yes I have started a family tree, you can find it at http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/11340453/person/-482349095.

It may not be as exact as yours, but I have only started this recently and I'm doing the best I can considering I've never done anything like this before. It's all new to me. I'm learning and don't know where to go to find all the answers to the questions I have. I'm trying to connect the dots that's why I posted my question here hoping to get some response. I thought this was where we were to come for help from others and to share info.

I'm sorry if my post was to simplistic for you or whatever I'm just trying to find answers to questions like I'm sure you are too.