Redd - Painter challenge #1: Frederick Co., Virginia & Richland Co., Ohio
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Redd - Painter challenge #1: Frederick Co., Virginia & Richland Co., Ohio
| EPainter8305 (View posts) | Posted: 11 May 2008 4:56AM GMT |
Classification: Query
Surnames: Fawcett Painter Redd
John Painter (1775-1860), a son of John Painter and Susannah Stratton, was born and grew up in Frederick County, Virginia. He is reported to have married twice. His second wife, Rachel Redd, daughter of George Redd and Rachel Fawcett, is reasonably well documented, as are their 12 children. There is an 1808 marriage record for John and Rachel #2, and ensuing Quaker disciplinary actions against Rachel, her father, and John’s brother Robert. [A]
John Painter’s first wife is the challenge. John Painter and Rachel Redd, probable daughter of Andrew Redd and Elizabeth Hollingsworth, may have been married in the mid- or late-1790s. Yet there is no surviving marriage record, nor does there seem to be any original document that mentions Rachel #1 specifically. The couple reportedly had five sons. Nothing is known of two of them, reportedly Lawrence and Washington, except their names. For the remaining three sons, reportedly Jacob, Andrew, and Ephraim, no known document links them to their parents nor to each other.
About the closest item of proof that Rachel Redd #1 existed and married a Painter is the 1818 will of Andrew Redd of Frederick County, Virginia. He directed: “to my grandson Ephraim Painter one hundred and fifty dollars to be paid to him by my executor when he arrives at the age of twenty one years.” Ephraim clearly was not a son of Andrew Redd’s daughter Elizabeth (also mentioned in the will) who married in 1799 Isaac Painter (a first cousin of John Painter). Ephraim did not migrate to Ohio with his father and Rachel #2 around 1812. Instead, Epraim probably grew up in his grandfather’s household; was married and died in Frederick County.
The late Harold Painter included in “The Painter Family” (1975) the following biographical sketch of his grandfather, Nelson William Painter, from Mark A. McGruder, “History of Pettis County, Missouri” (Topeka Historical Publishing Co., 1919), p. 688.
“NELSON PAINTER…a son of Hamilton and Matilda (Grub) Painter. Hamilton was born in Virginia and was a son of John Painter.
“John Painter was twice married and both his first and second wives strangely bore the maiden name of Rachel Red, although they were not related. To both of his marriages were born 17 children.”
Nelson William Painter was born 23 August 1838 in Richland County, Ohio, presumably on the Painter family’s farm in Perry Township. He lived with or near his paternal grandparents John and Rachel #2, and was enumerated in the same household with them in the 1850 census. He moved to Missouri in 1860, the year John passed away, was a Union soldier, and returned to Richland County in 1865-66, while Rachel #2 was still living. Nelson himself was living when his biographical sketch was published, and almost certainly provided the information, which seems to be very reliable.
While indicating nothing of the existence of Rachel #1, Hazel M. Kendall, “This Book Records the Descendants of William Gregg the Friend Immigrant to Delaware 1682…” (Anderson, Indiana: 1944), p. 146, indicated that John Painter’s marriage to Rachel #2 was his second marriage. “…John Painter 1775-1860 Richland Co. Ohio (m. (2) Rachel Redd 1781-1862 prob. dau. of George Redd m. 1781 Rachel Fawcett…” In this same paragraph, however, there is information missing, questionable, or wrong.
EEP
[A] Marriage license: John Painter & Rachel Redd, 2 Jun 1808, Frederick Co., Virginia; Lewis Chastain, minister. "Frederick County, Virginia, Marriages," Eliza Timberlake Davis, ed. (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1973), p. 57. Chastain, a Methodist minister, also performed the marriage ceremony for John's first cousin Abraham Painter in 1807.
3 Jul 1809: Rachel (Redd) Painter, "Married out [of discipline]--testimony signed against and referred back to [Hopewell] Women's Mtg." (Joint Committee of Hopewell Friends, "Hopewell Friends History, 1734-1934, Frederick County, Virginia" (Strasburg, Virginia: Shenandoah Publishing House, Inc., 1936), p. 525.)
4 Sep 1809: Robert Painter and George Redd disowned by Hopewell for "Attending a wedding accomplished contrary to discipline." (Joint Committee of Hopewell Friends, "Hopewell Friends History, 1734-1934, Frederick County, Virginia" (Strasburg, Virginia: Shenandoah Publishing House, Inc., 1936), p. 515.)
Cross posted to: Painter; Redd; Frederick County, Virginia; and Richland County, Ohio message boards.
John Painter’s first wife is the challenge. John Painter and Rachel Redd, probable daughter of Andrew Redd and Elizabeth Hollingsworth, may have been married in the mid- or late-1790s. Yet there is no surviving marriage record, nor does there seem to be any original document that mentions Rachel #1 specifically. The couple reportedly had five sons. Nothing is known of two of them, reportedly Lawrence and Washington, except their names. For the remaining three sons, reportedly Jacob, Andrew, and Ephraim, no known document links them to their parents nor to each other.
About the closest item of proof that Rachel Redd #1 existed and married a Painter is the 1818 will of Andrew Redd of Frederick County, Virginia. He directed: “to my grandson Ephraim Painter one hundred and fifty dollars to be paid to him by my executor when he arrives at the age of twenty one years.” Ephraim clearly was not a son of Andrew Redd’s daughter Elizabeth (also mentioned in the will) who married in 1799 Isaac Painter (a first cousin of John Painter). Ephraim did not migrate to Ohio with his father and Rachel #2 around 1812. Instead, Epraim probably grew up in his grandfather’s household; was married and died in Frederick County.
The late Harold Painter included in “The Painter Family” (1975) the following biographical sketch of his grandfather, Nelson William Painter, from Mark A. McGruder, “History of Pettis County, Missouri” (Topeka Historical Publishing Co., 1919), p. 688.
“NELSON PAINTER…a son of Hamilton and Matilda (Grub) Painter. Hamilton was born in Virginia and was a son of John Painter.
“John Painter was twice married and both his first and second wives strangely bore the maiden name of Rachel Red, although they were not related. To both of his marriages were born 17 children.”
Nelson William Painter was born 23 August 1838 in Richland County, Ohio, presumably on the Painter family’s farm in Perry Township. He lived with or near his paternal grandparents John and Rachel #2, and was enumerated in the same household with them in the 1850 census. He moved to Missouri in 1860, the year John passed away, was a Union soldier, and returned to Richland County in 1865-66, while Rachel #2 was still living. Nelson himself was living when his biographical sketch was published, and almost certainly provided the information, which seems to be very reliable.
While indicating nothing of the existence of Rachel #1, Hazel M. Kendall, “This Book Records the Descendants of William Gregg the Friend Immigrant to Delaware 1682…” (Anderson, Indiana: 1944), p. 146, indicated that John Painter’s marriage to Rachel #2 was his second marriage. “…John Painter 1775-1860 Richland Co. Ohio (m. (2) Rachel Redd 1781-1862 prob. dau. of George Redd m. 1781 Rachel Fawcett…” In this same paragraph, however, there is information missing, questionable, or wrong.
EEP
[A] Marriage license: John Painter & Rachel Redd, 2 Jun 1808, Frederick Co., Virginia; Lewis Chastain, minister. "Frederick County, Virginia, Marriages," Eliza Timberlake Davis, ed. (Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1973), p. 57. Chastain, a Methodist minister, also performed the marriage ceremony for John's first cousin Abraham Painter in 1807.
3 Jul 1809: Rachel (Redd) Painter, "Married out [of discipline]--testimony signed against and referred back to [Hopewell] Women's Mtg." (Joint Committee of Hopewell Friends, "Hopewell Friends History, 1734-1934, Frederick County, Virginia" (Strasburg, Virginia: Shenandoah Publishing House, Inc., 1936), p. 525.)
4 Sep 1809: Robert Painter and George Redd disowned by Hopewell for "Attending a wedding accomplished contrary to discipline." (Joint Committee of Hopewell Friends, "Hopewell Friends History, 1734-1934, Frederick County, Virginia" (Strasburg, Virginia: Shenandoah Publishing House, Inc., 1936), p. 515.)
Cross posted to: Painter; Redd; Frederick County, Virginia; and Richland County, Ohio message boards.