Thank you very much. They were my Great-grandmother and one of her sons. The information I need can be found only in the St. John Church records, I believe. The family I referred to in the previous message have to have been relatives but I never before knew they existed. Perhaps the Defiance Church Record would give some clue of birthdate, where born, etc. for Friedrich. The census does not hold the information I need. The many ways that the last name was spelled only complicate matters. But thank you very, very much.